What's the most minimum type of work a communist society would still consider work?

fucking kek, baboon poster

Where the fuck do you come from and what the fuck are you talking about? Burger here.
Makes you the hamburgers and tendies you crave. Washes the dishes and carries out the trash you generate.
Again with the trash, but also mowing your dream suburban lawn
Now that's actually what white people do.
You are insane. I'm not saying go to the psychiatrist but get some sort of help.

Jobs that can be easily automated wouldn't exist and those workers would be retrained for other positions. Business schools would be shut down as well.

So Capitalism

Most Service Sector work including virtually all retail can be cut now. Send those people to the factories. More automation will mean that eventually most people will end up working as scientists or engineers with four hour work days and three day work weeks.

Well I've seen YOU'VE never had to redo an electrophoresis gel because you put the DNA samples in the wrong lanes.

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Amount of work is not relevant. You can do a very small amount of any kind of work. A garbage collector could pick up one piece of trash. An engineer could tweak the rivets on a design. A nurse could put someone's chart outside their room at the hospital. What you want to be asking is the kind of work being done and whether it contributes toward meeting someone's need. "Bullshit jobs" in capitalism are bullshit because they don't do this. They exist to maybe help increase profit and to justify giving someone a paycheck.

Obviously you would need more scientists to make up the balance.

Though I admit a 12 hour work week might be a bit ambitious to start with.

He's just giving you average numbers. People who work four ten hour days are still on par with workers working five eight hour days, and so on.

Galaxy brain

Think for two seconds, how many millions and billions of people would LOVE to have a "bullshit job" as defined by Graeber. Do you seriously think that a coal miner or factory worker wouldn't like to have a bullshit cushy office job? Nobody gives a fuck about muh precious meaningful work

Looks like you never went across an actual sociological research on workplace psychology and workplace social relations and needs.

Work of Edgar H. Schein is foundational in this aspect. Managed to find only german translation. But I was reading a czech translation and it is the same book. Good luck in finding english one but it might be in nearby used books stores on the online catalog.

But for spoilers, questioning the actual workers, it was found out that workers value social relationships with their colleagues. If they are on good terms, friendly relationships are important, as well as social exchange. Then the next important component is knowing that their work is important. Author outlines several cases where women in weaving industry were proud to be subjects of further research, I don't remember exactly what was the point, but they explicitly stated that it felt good to be important even as a normal worker.

So your explicit dismissal without any inquiry in previous data falls short precisely because of this.

What you say appears true precisely because those jobs have bad conditions and terrible pay. In fact David Graeber makes an inquiry into the psychology of a bullshit job with a few anecdotes to support a statement, not much but a general trend can be observed.

Way to completely miss the point. Most people would probably prefer a bullshit job over actually productive work. That doesn't justify meangiless work for the sake of meaningless work if you could simply not have them.

Learn to read nigger. Phychologucal research shows people value the usefulness of their job.

Also as someone who has done a bullshit job and physical labour, I would much rather do 6 hour days of physical labour than 6 hour days of bullshit job work.

What are different shifts?

What would media & entertainment be like in a communist society? I say this because right now we have such huge & obnoxious money-hungry companies out there creating things… but would it be seen as a waste of time in a communist one? Would it decrease in quality? I'm talking movies, shows, games, toys, etc. Anything that's not essential to living, but is a leisurely activity/luxury.

I for one would be happy if all blockbusters got a reduced budget, they are all shit.

I have to say that the film industry is one of the best examples of workers getting shafted.

They work all day every day for YEARS sometimes… only to just get terrible pay & no recognition compared to the directors that came up with the stupid cash grab in the first place.

It's possible to work your way up to the lead animator's special team in some studios, which means you get better treatment, but the rest are just slaves sometimes (depends on the studio and project).

Leftypol moderator?(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Wow wtf, nigga got banned.

it's not in the ban log so no

Looks like a 1 second ban.

Adderall manufacturer. Amphetamines will be illegal in the new order. No crutches for intellectual laziness!

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Salty

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The obsession with "work" and culture surrounding it is toxic. People could have their basic needs provided without the carrot and stick of wageslavery.

and should

The idea I've been proposing is to implement a Patreon-like system with two big differences:

means testing will always be worse than unconditionally giving.

Advertisers/marketing people could probably be used at a minimal level for public education programs and such purposes, but most would be out of work.

No need for means testing. It's just a cap on the labor tokens you can receive.

What happens to the uncreative? Jewish gulag?

What do you mean uncreative? Everyone involved in making media and entertainment is doing creative work, I'd say.

People not "involved in making media and entertainment".

They have to work a couple of hours a day at some recognized productive enterprise.

And if they can't, what? They starve to death on the street?

Are you really that disabled that you can't do anything?

If they can't they go get that verified so the community maintains them regardless. We aren't going to let the elderly and disabled starve to death.

Some people are. And why should people be FORCED to do things?

That's called "means testing".
@both: Have you heard of Universal Basic Income?

richardkulisz.blogspot.com/2008/05/guaranteed-basic-income.html

Fixed that for you.

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Stupid post. All drugs should be legal under socialism.

People shouldn't be forced to do anything. A capable adult just can't expect others to work for them without doing work in return. Maybe workers under socialism will decide to implement something like a UBI, guaranteeing a basic subsistence for people who refuse to labor. I'd like that, but it's a secondary question to that of socialism.
Something I'm sure they'll want to implement is support for disabled people. They need some mechanism to measure whether people are eligible for that support. Even if they implement UBI, they probably want genuinely disabled people to receive something in addition to it. I'd want that.

the 2 things are related for sure

This. I doubt that there are any communists out there that would expect literally everyone to be doing the same amount of work as everyone else. If you can't walk, you can still do other things. If you can't see, you can still do other things.

No one's forcing paralyzed or terminally ill people to work. Isn't that why socialists hate capitalism so much? Because they make people work and give them shit protection/benefits?

I'm half blind, but I can still do tons of stuff whereas other people would be like "reee I cant see I cant work"

the idea would be that people getting UBI would get about $12,000 a year and people working would receive more, probably around $42,000 if they were working full time at $15/hr. also i don't know the difference between socialism or communism or capitalism (so i wouldn't say i'm a "socialist", "communist", or "capitalist") but i support UBI.

user, beside the point being that those backbreaking jobs necessary for civilization being so badly compensated whereas the bullshit jobs are the reverse, there are a host of side issues. For example, the work done at those prole jobs are being wasted as well, in as much as they are used towards making deliberately defective gadgets, grossly over-processed "food", and all other sorts of completely pointless consumer crap like fidget fucking spinners. Like everything in capitalism, we judge jobs by payout, completely ignoring any meaningful worth. Realizing the absurd amount of labor and capital wasted on the pointless jobs is, in itself, a strong argument against capitalism. I would give an arm to know the percentage of those things that are wasted in completely frivolous ways, whose only reason for existing is to keep the capitalist cycle going at any cost.

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Because our collective well being hinges on it. Our labour process is fully social; anyone who exists under either capitalism or socialism has to depend on the labour of millions of others just to go through daily life. If you just consume without contributing anything, you are a parasite. Some classes of people might be exempted (young, old, sick, disabled), but for everyone else the dictum should and will forever be: he who does not work does not eat.

Reeeeeeeee

I should explain further. People do "useless" work all the time for their own enjoyment. They play video games, look after model train sets, or tinker with old electronics. It's called a hobby. But I'm supposing most people in the world are like and wouldn't be able to live with the thought of doing something totally useless 8 hours a day 5 days a week while pretending they're super necessary and their presence in some office as someone's underling is justified? It's a schizophrenic way to live and infuriating in the long run. The seemingly insurmountable necessity of bullshit jobs to bring food to the worker's table is in contradiction with the negligible or nonexistent utilitarian result of the work in the world. Graeber explains all of this in the book, if you'd like to read it

meant to point at

but I suppose the misquoted reply approaches the same point

here is your (you)

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There are a lot of right wingers in this thread, isn't there a board for them?

>>>Zig Forums

Banker boss landlord would not exist. Manager would exist.

Minimum work would be decided by society democratically

Anime appraiser

9 months? I could do it in 1 if I had 8 more women!

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How long would work days be? With the focus being on the betterment of the country & the human race, people surely wouldn't be treated like machines like they are now just because it's profitable to have them kill themselves every day?

Six days right now. Half of jobs are bullshit jobs, at least in the industrialized and post-industraal world. The labor of the people who have their jobs’s cut will be redirected to useful occupations, while everyone get’s their workday shorted from eight to six hours. Leading to a productivity increase of 150% precent, but a workday shorter by 25%

That’s what I thought. Wasn’t there something in the labor theory of value that talked about surplus value later on in the workday after the worker expended himself fully?

I would like to think that this has a connection to the desired length of shifts… but everyone is different and have varying strength/stamina/energy, but humans just aren’t machinery

Soccer mom ADHD is one thing, but people who think cognitive enhancement is a crutch have never tried it. The only reason giving it to kids is bad is because they aren't neurologically developed yet.

Thats just a manner of expanding a ratio to a whole day.
If paying a worker for a full day costs 50 dollars and he makes 100 dollars in a day, he has earned his wage halfway through the day. You could just as well say that every moment he works, every second and microsecond, he creates twice what he costs.