ContraPoints interview with The Economist

Breadtube is good, actually

The driving force behind this might be a rollback on materialist philosophy from popular and broad knowledge. And maybe a rollback on women's rights. But the gender critical circles are better informed on the topic. The whole trans issue and activism reeks of feels>reals.

No wonder that class analysis was stamped out from humanities by not being a criterium by which the grants are assigned. This slowly creeping erasure of materialist approach proved to be successful in the western academia. Glaring example is that econophysics is in physics journals and is being developed by physicists or computer scientists, not economists but of course there might be exceptions.

Incoherent garbage posting full of weasel words and Dunning-Kruger
You would be less obvious if you could stitch together even very basic arguments without conspiratorial schizoposting riddled with specious reasoning, Zig Forums

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This

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What makes her think its possible to reach out to readers of the fucking Economist? Why do this?

patreon bux

This is entirely accurate and, I think, intentional. The ruling class wants the right-wing to be as welcoming as possible and the left-wing to be as exclusive as possible, which is why they back those voices on the left which calls for more tribalism, more hostility towards potentially convertible moderates and more idpol.
I got suckered in hard into the online Sargon/Milo/Kekistan sphere despite not really agreeing with any of their ideas pretty much for this reason. Both of them were saying "Society is shit and needs to change in some major way", which resonated with me in ways I didn't fully understand at the time, but where the left demanded that I prove myself worthy of overcoming my inherent racial and gender-based inferiority, like Contra says, the right practically rolled out a red-carpet.
You can think I'm dumb, and that's fine, you're probably right. Most people are probably more dumb than I am, and I wouldn't count on most of the alienated young people who get sucked over to the far right coming to their senses and abandoning it. This is an important problem to deal with.

I am scared to say this but………. isnt (s)he right? Alt-right is better at recuiting

They are. She's completely right about most online leftist spaces being designed for like, 5% of people to feel welcome there.
I spent like 4 years trying to make "economically socialist, actually reactionary" be a viable thing because the far-right was more willing to overlook my socialism if I caved on a couple insignificant gender issues, than the left was willing to overlook my race and gender for pretty much any reason.

well, I should say, my race, gender, and disinterest in what race and gender Video Game characters are.

Can someone kill this freak already?

Why the FUCK is this the face of "leftism" in the west? So pathetic, all I can do is lol.

Recruiting WHO?
The left should get out of internet nerds and petty-bourgeois kids. It should be amongst the masses on America, it should be popular where the contradictions are the greatest, where the masses suffer the most. Of course a bunch of dumbass white suburbanite kids will have predictably liberal/fascist politics. The people who are hit hardest by the system will be natural friends of communists.

All contra is fucking doing with her videos is appealing to middle class socdems, normally white, that want socialism without the struggle.

LITERAL champagne socialism.

This ignores that most people who are fighting the fight online would probably never go out into the real world to do the same thing. It's all nerds vs nerds here on the internet, nothing done online is taking resources from any real life activity.
On top of that, I think it highly foolish to ignore the overwhelming importance of the internet in spreading information, awareness and propaganda to the people.

The best part is how badly she triggers the libs by making milquetoast YouTube vids over very basic content with very simple arguments and theater.

The more loudly Zig Forums yells and screams, the worse she makes you fuckers look when everyone else sees your aneurysms over a concilliatory eceleb.

It's fantastic.

That's because there is no left in the west. The right is better at recruiting when you compare it to a moldy loaf of bread, which is the western "left". Also remember that contemporary western society is steeped in fascist imagery so no wonder people are more amicable with the far right than the "left".

Socialism must more than "free shit"
It must mean struggle, and struggle is something the poor masses understand naturally. Violence is something that happens every day in working class neighbourhoods. The kids that partake in internet politics (owning da libs/conservatards) are too sheltered to really be good communists.
Let the right win the fucking youtube wars. We will win St. Louis, Detroit, the entire rust belt. These are areas where idiotic ideas of muh free speech would be laughed at, if a right winger went there to spout them.

Um, no?

LE TRIGGERED DA DRUMPHFTARDS EPIN STYLE
LE I WOULD STILL BE A LIBERAL IF HILLARY WON EPIC STYLE.

She's making socialism palatable to an audience who would never find it so otherwise. She may not be an assembly line of radical Marxists, but she certainly does at least make socialism appear less scary to those socdems and middle-class people who would normally vehemently oppose it. There is a value to that.
I would once have identified as right wing, and her videos were very important in making me consider the left as having actually interesting ideas, and in making me reexamine the tribalistic hatred I'd unconsciously held for the left.

Yikes, you sound quite sure of it that normal urban poor of color are incapable of turning into reactionaries.

This, all this fucking time wasted trying to recruit suburban white kids when their material interests point them to protecting the current system. Has no one stopped to think about this?

Typing in all caps to show how not triggered you are really gets the point across, right Zig Forums

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maybe the best summation of the online white left I've ever read

We need a genuine proletarian movement coming out of the midwest and the areas where poverty is most extreme in the US, that allies black, white and latin workers without conceding to opportunist lines, and includes prison workers and prison chapters of leftist groups (yes they exist, there exist old Black Panthers still in US prisons who have worked to found prison chapters)

Can you imagine how scared these internet nerds would be of including prison workers, who experience literal modern day slavery, in the leftist movement? We need some way to keep the nerds out, or at least re-educate them and bring them into contact with the masses, who most of them despise or are afraid of anyway

She's making REVISED "socialism" palatable

Then they dissolve it of its revolutionary potential, which is precisely what she's doing. Why make socialism palatable to petty-booj suburban fucks that ARE the reactionary force that we must contend with? They WON'T come around when crisis hits.

We don't want more gamer/reddit retards.

1) it's in everyone's interest to replace capitalism
2) you underestimate the value in swaying or even just sowing indecision amongst an estate which naturally doesn't lend itself to socialism.

No it fucking isn't your retard, there's a damn reason the capitalists/elite commit atrocities to maintain it. You think they give a shit about climate change? They've got theirs, they aren't going to be affected. Imagine saying this same shit during feudalism to a noble, he'd laugh in your face.

"insulting people makes me right"

They are capable of turning into reactionaries, but have a long history of being allied with communists. Most of the leaders of the black liberation struggle would at the very least call themselves call themselves democratic socialist (MLK) and the more radical one like BPP would uphold Maoism. Its true that its died down today, and there exist reactionaries who are popular now, but this is partly due to the failure of the left (both black and white orgs) to remain on the ground, more than anything just remain visible really.
Reminds me of that line from that deniro film, a bronx tale: You know why I live in this neighbourhood? Availability.

Are you going to ignore the rest of my post you baby?

I was gonna type out a whole explaination, but fuck it. Short version: If you think the majority white suburbanites are rich, benefit particularly from capitalism or are inherently conservative, you don't know what you're talking about and you need to shut the fuck up. Plenty of us are just as discontent with the system as other identities are.

I can't name the last time someone supplemented a good argument with insults, so yes I am.

Well at least you found an excuse to abandon your argument!

They might be discontent by the system, but do you really think white suburbanite gamers will give their lives to revolution?

It's actually a really effective way to argue with bad faith actors like yourself in a public setting, since it both demoralizes the bad faith interlocutor slowly over time and still provides an argument to show everyone else how retarded you actually are.
If you're going to post reactionary propaganda everywhere, you won't get to do it for free. You're going to have to pay the psychological toll.

A-are you okay?

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Dude, proper leftism is nowhere to be found among the american suburbs. They want bernie, with all the socdem imperialism that entails (see how supportative bernie is of foreign intervention) and even then, that's the "LEFTIST" element of the subrubs. The VAST majority of suburbanites are hard reactionaries, bordering on fascism, if they aren't fascists already.

I'm happy that you're special, but don't project your beliefs onto everyone else in your condition.

no, but they might give their lives to fight it if they think that it'll result in a great reduction in their standard of living (like, taking their vidya away). Or, if an unthreatening, ex-liberal socdem wins them over with a video about how socialism isn't the devil, maybe instead they'll stay home and expect things to turn out alright.
Leftists act as if the only thing of value is an allied soldier, when taking away an enemy soldier might be more viable and just as effective.

While that might be the case in America in Europe its quite the opposite. Minorities here tend to turn inward and radicalizing on reactionary ideology that is usually mixture of tribalism and religious fanaticism.

All signs point to them being swept up in some fascist wave that promises them the same shit as an american "socialist" would.

that's one of the more interesting excuses I've heard as to why you being too much of a cockholster for me to deal with is somehow my fault.

yeah and you can either fight that wave or just surrender a very large demographic to fascism because you're too prejudiced against them to even attempt to dissuade them of that position.

If you can't deal it is your fault dumbass

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I can. And I choose to do so by disengaging with people who act like children.

Surrender would imply the left had them in the first place. They were way over the threshold a very long time ago. You still underestimate the American question.

again. I'm not saying you're going to turn white suburban gamer into dedicated guerillas, but a soldier that doesn't enlist for the other side can be just as valuable as one that does for yours.

do a simple experiment:
go door to door, telling people that American imperialism must be destroyed and that the Palestinians have a right to rebel. Tell them that the Black Panthers have a right to carry guns. Tell them that when a bunch of American soldiers get killed in Lebanon, it was the fault of the US government for sending them over invading a sovereign country. Tell them Israel is a fascist apartheid country.

Report back on your results

exactly

How's that disengagement going for you, idiot boomer?

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Even if the gamer crowd was converted into liberalism, they would still be closer to fascism than to the left. Liberals have allied with fascists and enabled fascism so many times over the last century, its disgusting.

Let me put it this way: if someone thinks that free speech is the foremost problem of our time, that person will NEVER be a leftist. That person is simply too far gone, they have never been in contact with the masses. Opinions like this, you can only develop after a lifetime of suburban sheltered life.

But many western "leftists" are encouraging suburban kids to join the military so that we can "sow dissent" within it and gain "vital military training". Not to mention the most prominent "socialist" orgs in the US have veterans as their leading members. So they defacto have joined and abetted the other side.

You may noticed that I've been abusing quotation marks, well that's because the west really is a deceitful circus where nothing is fucking true and everyone is only looking to boost their career. It's a tragic scenario.

Do a simple experiment: do a completely stupid thing that is obviously not going to work and has no thought put behind it, then let me act like I'm smart when it doesn't work.
Yall are making such ridiculous strawmen it's amazing. Again, not saying you're gonna convert suburban gamers to red army guerillas, but you can certainly convert some, and you can definitely prevent many of them from turning to fascists.
I'm not going to repeat this again.

Good point.>>2763840
Like that time they started the largest war in human history to preserve liberalism over fascism? Was that liberals siding with fascists? Is that what that was? Okay.
Oh, okay, you're handicapped. I misunderstood, let me take my leave now.

I know I sound like the crudest cynic, but those "revolutionaries" that you do manage to capture among the suburban ilk are most probably going to end up betraying you. They will be the type to most likely be spies.

Well then don't recruit from them, but also don't deny the value of a potential enemy who stays home instead.

They didn't start the war against fascism, it was the other way round. Many liberal elements were subsumed into the new fascist governments on the continent, without much contradiction between the two systems.

Social democracy can exist within a fascist government when they're at "peace". Let's not forget how those same liberal countries recruited fascists in droves after the war and used those fascists, in places like Greece, to mow down socialists.

The ONLY reason liberal societies went to war with fascists is because Nazi germany was THAT MUCH OF A THREAT. Germany alone would divide the world to its benefit, not the USSR, but germany - and it was looking very probable.

I wish to understand what it was I said that sounded like support for liberals, because you'll find none from me. I defend them against what I see as ridiculous claims (as I would with anyone), but I don't hold any fondness for them.
I forget what relevance this tangent had to my point, so I'll clarify that I'm obviously not advocating for the conversion of suburbanites to liberals if liberals with side with fascists. I support their conversion to non-fascists. This should not be a controversial idea.

imgur.com/a/dXBUWX5

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Yeah there's nothing wrong with that. My contention is that we're wasting so much fucking time and resources on these people that have a 5% chance of changing their minds, when we could be focusing on idiots that don't spend every waking moment in MMOs or on youtube.

Sorry, poorly worded. I meant focusing on people, not idiots who spend every waking moment in MMOs.

Convert some to WHAT?
Make them 'leftists' so they can make youtube videos owning de conservatards?
I'll remind you that this is the face of white American leftism:

All I'm saying is that your time and effort is better spent elsewhere, with the masses rather than with nerds, even if you do manage to sway a few of them from open fascism

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Like who actually intends to recruit them? Most of the time leftist groups are going out of their way to make it clear that they don’t want them. Why? Mainly because the vast majority has a stuck in the 60s (or worse) stuck in the 80s-90s mindset. The ironic thing is that while Left groups fall all over themselves to attract “pocs” at this point the majority of pocs aren’t even interested in them. They can’t even conceive that it’s something wrong with their rhetoric and praxis they only think that if only they were more hostile to whites they would pick up more non-whites

“People of color” are actually moving into the suburbs at record rate. One article even claimed there were now more “pocs” living in suburbs than in urban centers. Suburbs are no longer a 50s fantasy reserves only for “middle class” whites they are growing in diversity and becoming poorer overall. Meanwhile, the city centers that the backwards-looking American Left looks to for “true revolutionaries” are becoming whiter.

If a Left organization said it didn’t want Asian suburban kids there would be a huge row and probably the dissolution of the organization even if the social conditions were broadly similar. The whole suburban vs.urban thing is just neo-Proudhonism and 80s culture wars in a Marxian dressing. The divide isn’t between who owns their own house and who doesn’t but who owns the means of production.

While home ownership is reactionary, the Left fails to understand what makes suburban living attractive beyond empty platitudes about “no browns”. Living in a spacious home with a yard instead of a badly maintained apartment complex with thin walls in a cramped apartment is more appealing to most workers than the downsides of suburban life. If the Left emptily opposes suburbs and suburbanites without addressing how they are an answer to the desire for a better life they set themselves up to fail.

Urban environments have to become better with more spacious, affordable, better-maintained, private apartments with better services to diminish the appeal of suburbs. I kind of suspect that the rise of rental homes in the suburbs and condos in urban areas may move things towards greater similarity in both condition and outlook between the two regions.

nah it's fine, made me laugh.
I'm not going to deny the increased value of those efforts, you're right. However, those groups are highly influential on the internet, and the internet is a powerful force in spreading ideas. It's foolish to act like they have no influence.
It's other's fight to organize the workers, the inner-city poor and the minorities. I don't know those worlds. I know white suburbia, and I know there's potential for, if not full class-consciousness among people like me, at least enough passivity or hostility towards the far right to prevent them siding with them. It annoys me when people undermine the potential value of that.
Again, I'm not saying I'm out there fighting the Battle of the Overpass or anything. I'm just saying that my folk aren't an utterly lost cause, and there is potential to mold them into a group who's interests align more with socialists than fascists, even if the extent of that alignment is a simple refusal to fight for fascists, if not conviction to fight against them.

i can see the merit of this argument

I guess I should have been more precise, my use of suburban was just a broad way of dismissing who i imagine as the enemy lol
Still, I think that the politics of the extremely online group is more predisposed to being reactionary. Even if it becomes "left", it is still pathetically non-militant and functionally useless. A revolution is not a dinner party, and I feel the online left just wants to recruit more guests for the dinner party, not real soldiers.

City centers are becoming more gentrified, white and upperclass, as the suburbs become poorer and more diverse.
But you know. Keep shitting on suburbanites. Don't bitch at me when they all throw their weight behind the counter revolution.
Homeownership rates are dropping anyway. Most suburbans that I know rent their homes, and most that I see available are to rent, not to buy.

Someone has to make propaganda. Foot soldiers do the real-world work, but someone has to convince them to be foot soldiers.
I'd cite this leftist misunderstanding of the importance of propaganda as a major reason why they've benefited so little from the internet. They hold, ironically, a kind of conservative position on the Internet.

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Lol, butt hurt because the left focuses on people that are more moderate and more likely to accept their ideas than assholes openly hostile to them.

This, we shouldn’t concede the Internet the the alt right entirely, but the left should be focused on on the ground educating, agitating and advocating.

I wished I lived in a world as magical as you do where leftists focused on anything other than open hostility towards moderates. Lemme know if you're trying to share whatever put you in a state of such delusion, I definitely want some.

I guess you're right. Maybe just looking with dismay at youtube comment sections turned me off a little from the internet. The left definitely needs to step up the propaganda game, and somehow find a way around the youtube algorithm, which really does facilitate fascists. Watch one video on lifting weights, and the next one is about the white master race excelling in the arena of physical fitness, DESTROYING the snowflake left

also, what do you think people are before they become "assholes openly hostile to [leftists]"? Moderates, maybe? Why do so many more moderates become right wing than left wing?
I'm sure it's not your fault though.

I understand why so many younger white go their way, but is there a way to roll a red carpet for the white youth without inviting in the fascism, or leaving an opening for white identity politics?

Fuck her, she’s litterally advocating for respectability politics like a fucking Democrat. Some endlessly scolds the left while never recognizing the need for the left to sometimes be abrasive because of the termendous amount of power the bourgeois brings down on suppressing their messages. The alt-right can play the PR game because they are under so such pressure.
It’s also hilarious how this cunt fawns over the alt-rights ability to appeal to the masses after their entire movement collapsed after Charlottesville. Where an alt-right fuck up sperged out so spectacularly that it created a Hollywood style spectacle that was played endlessly for months. The left has never done anything even half as equivalent. Where the fuck is all her criticism for the alt-rights inability to not fucking murder people and make their movement look bad.

Lol alt-right aren’t moderates. And your magical moderates that slide toward fascism were just sociopathic liberals,

*under no such pressure

Partly, yes its the left fault but mostly its class.
A "moderate" bourgeoise pig is still bourgeois, and his turn to fascism can simply be seen as him taking off the nice liberal mask.
Please resist the urge to "radicalize the bourgeois". They will laugh at you.

I definitely agree, reactionaries have the YouTube game on lock (though, YouTube is quickly growing tired of them and deplatforming them, a move which I don't disagree with in principle, worries me as to how they would treat far-leftists who gained a same level of notoriety.)

emphasize the social isolation and alienation brought on by modern capitalism, many of these guys are basically NEETs and are highly receptive to the idea that capitalist society has utter failed to imbue their life with any meaning, and how more and more the things they used to love about their nerdy hobbies are becoming more depersonalized, more marketable, another soulless commodity. Vidya was always a commodity, but the passion and love that drove developers to make vidya is more and more replaced with a callous drive for profit, and gamers see that. Once they've accepted that, it's not really hard to show them the same process consuming everything else. Anything that once transcended the world, that showed the beauty of man or expressed genuine artistic feeling, will become another depersonalized brand that corporations use to sell you shit.
You will note that this is somewhat divorced from class struggle. I believe that most suburbanites are just as alienated from their work as any poorer worker, and are compensated unfairly (though they undeniably maintain a higher standard of living). I do not believe this is a high priority for most suburbanites, nor is it the way in which capitalism most negatively effects their lives. I believe they're capable of understanding and identifying with class struggle, but in 2018, I don't believe that it's the right approach to start with. The suburban capitalist experience is different from others, and should be treated as such. They can be brought in line with the general movement later.

You can type stupid shit with as much of a smug aura as you want. Your smugness does not cover up your ignorance.

yeah this sounds nice, but as someone from suburbia, the only way you can say this is if you don't actually know anyone from the class you slander so. The only ones who have true happiness and agency under capitalism are the capitalists. I think the suburban middle class can certainly be shown the cause of their empty, meaningless lives.

This is literally the opposite of what she says
Watch the tabby video

The only argument she's making is the need to be more accessible to people who don't have a degree in the humanities and to stop with all the shibolleths so it isn't trivially easy for divide and conquer tactics to work which are both legitimate criticisms

No she isn’t, she’s preoccupying herself and her audience with a bunch of gossipy tribalism and high school clique politics while ignoring the tremendous material conditions that make the left necessary. And disconnecting her idpol from the fucking capitalist base that causes it and making it about people being “bad” or “ignorant” like a fucking liberal.

I did watch the tabby video, and all her other videos up to the incel one. That’s exactly what’s she’s saying. She tries to hide behind this bullshit fig leaf that’s she’s not taking sides. If she’s not taking sides why doesn’t she talk about the colossal fuck ups of the alt right and mainstream media as well like Charlotteville or the last half dozen wars.

I’m not “typing stupid shit” you anally devastated liberal. It’s a complete waste of time to try to reach out and out fascists. You’re just trying to make fascism seem like just another political strip with this “reach out to them” bullshit.

ContraPoints is peak leftoid petty-bourgeois garbage.
>>>/liberalpol/

you're dumb, and wrong, and yelling louder isn't gonna make you less dumb or less wrong. Take the dick out of your ass and choke on it.

Yeah, that's exactly what she's doing when she makes hours and hours of video about the contradictions of capitalism, redlining, and explains how neonazism is wrong and stupid.

Why comment if you've never even watched the channel?

because Zig Forums is just for fucking trots who center their entire ideology around being contradictory. "oh, thing is popular? We must find a reason to hate thing!"

Welcome to imageboards

thats pretty much the entire history of trots: supporting harvey weinstein to own da libs
supporting mujahideen to own the ☭TANKIE☭s

Yeah, imageboards sure started hating video games, misogyny, and Donald Trump when they became all the rage on reddit, huh

Wow this board likes red liberal trannies now? How far the mighty have fallen

Lol when did she make a video on redlining? And no she doesn’t make hours of videos on capitalism’s contradictions, she makes hours of videos pandering to the concerns of sheltered propertied white suburbanite hipsters and their shallow concerns and tangentially connects it to capitalism. Just bitching about something and the mumbling “it’s capitalism” doesn’t just makes you an opportunist.

youtube.com/watch?v=GWwiUIVpmNY