Identity politics v class politics: CPGB-ML

cpgb-ml.org/2018/12/17/news/letter-identity-politics-v-class-politics/


Letter: Identity politics v class politics

If our political activities don’t threaten imperialism, we need to think again about what we are doing.

Monday 17 December 2018

Regarding the present much-discussed issue of identity politics, I think the most important matter here is how to organise for a socialist transformation in our society.

The CPGB-ML correctly argues that this can only be achieved by organising the working class to seize power. Anything that detracts from this is objectively reactionary. Identity politics seems to be absorbing a lot of the energy of the working-class movement. The question posed is: does this help or hinder the struggle for socialist transformation?

Real oppression is homelessness, hunger, destitution, war, poverty, police brutality, anti-trade-union laws, etc. While we talk about identities, are we seriously challenging this oppression?

We all are very concerned when minorities are targeted and scapegoated by the state and by the ruling classes organising the far right, especially in times of crisis, as an extra-legal arm to attack workers on identity bases. The movement has always seen such tactics as a means to divide the class whilst promoting supremacist ideas, ie, the survival of the ‘fittest’, as natural, which ultimately expresses itself in the most vile imperialism and war.

Historically it has been the working-class movement that has fought racial oppression, realising that ‘an injury to one is an injury to all’. The key critical question is this: Can the movement defeat racism, sexism and homophobia if it is divided on these issues, and can real lasting solutions be found for these within a capitalist society, which promotes competition and division, as well as a ruling class that seeks to divide the working masses?

We can only appeal to the working class on the basis that an injury to one is an injury to all. The issue that unites us is being members of the working class suffering the same injustices. We cannot achieve this unity by seeking to elevate our differences to the fore, taking the focus off the class enemy that enjoys its privilege at our expense and uses those differences to divide us.

This is the Marxist position, which argues that the key contradictions in society are class-based, and that class is determined by our relationship to the means of production. You only have to read the Communist Manifesto, written in 1848, in which Karl Marx and Frederick Engels turned identity issues into class conflict.

Hand on heart everybody: is the current identity-political activity class based, and, more importantly is it threatening imperialism?

If not, then, as Marxists, how do you expect to defeat oppression without the unity of the working class? This is how we should approach this issue if we are serious.

MC, Leeds

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I don't get the hate the CPGB-ML gets here. People are not making an argument against them aside from "hurr durr they are LARPish sometimes". The CPGB is shunned by all the crazy IdPol Twitter ☭TANKIE☭s, which should tell you that they are probably a force of good.

Boy, reading this really gives me the CPGBs.

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Its because they're totally irrelevant and all the britanons on the board know how useless and often cancerous they are. They're not some last refuge of true marxism in britain or the only overtly anti-idpol party in the country.

Hmmm

Because they're just irrelevant but every internet ☭TANKIE☭ wanks over them incessantly: where's the love for actual Heroes of the modern British Left like Bob Crow?

i will vote for communism and myocide if Alexandria ocasio crotez' snatch is communalized

sayonara simians

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most respectable party imo.

The what is? Do you have any consistent critique of their line? What do they do wrong? Marx is irrelevant in most economic departments in universities arround the world, therefore, Marx is wrong.


I didn't say that, but you still need to make an argument explaining why the CPGB-ML is bad.


Fuck off, if your caricature of a "tankie" doesn't post on this board, they are probably very hostile to them. On social media, only Phil Greaves defends them, all these non-binargy Jucheist trannies hate them with a passion for not joining their cult.

then what is*

From what I know their takes on the early USSR / Stalin are pretty much Grover furr / Hoxha tier and refuse to admit literally any wrongdoing by the Stalin goverment and also hold a Ultra as fuck line where every socialist state asides from DPR-Korea aren't socialist

I mean it's not hard to figure out why they think only DPRK is Socialist when you consider what they have in common (:

I think CPGB-ML is retarded as much as the next guy but what the fuck is this?

Just some sperg

Whats wrong with the third guy

He's jewish and some stormnigger is dumping his entire "le commies are all LGBT epic" folder because he's triggered is my guess

i'm not sure where this thread was supposed to go
using the letter as an example to explain proper opposition to identity politics without going the far too common Zig Forums convert "anti identities is anti idpol" idiotism route that's spreading here and starting up a discussion?
and why is this image spam not being deleted?
does OP not care all that much for his thread to request some order or lead a discussion?
well… nice letter though, good to see it posted here anyway, a welcome sight between all the dumbass shit opinions by the usual crowd

stop acting coy and get on your knees, you'll love it, trust me
i sure do

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Hitler did almost nothing wrong.

Lenin almost got it right.

Communism almost results in huge numbers of people not dying of starvation.

OP would almost not suck dick if he were made dictator.

We've already had this thread before.

All of y'all would almost avoid the gulag when that happens.

The BO almost has a penis.

This. Every other ML party is massively revisionist. We can all see the CPGB-ML's flaws but they literally are the 'last refuge of true marxism'.

Why do we have to give a shit about what X party thinks about Y historic event? It really doesn't matter what their opinion is on a Soviet law about traditional basket-weaving in July 1932. What matters is their strategy, are they Leninist? Are they upholding internationalism? Are they upholding democratic centralism?

It also doesn't affect their international relations if they think China isn't socialist considering they still keep inviting Chinese embassy stuff.

It's mostly troons having schizo episodes.

Crow is/was very popular but he's dead so how is he relevant now? Incidentally he was well aligned with the CPGB-ML - he left the CPB to join the SLP, which was at the time the party of the CPGB-ML's founders. Who else like Crow would you point to now?


Is he a member? If not has he said why?


I don't know whether they technically define Cuba as socialist but they're very pro-Cuba and also support countries like Venezuela on the grounds of anti-imperialism.

I made the point of Crow in that the RMT still continues on under his legacy and militancy, but people ignore that because militant trade unionism is as sexy as carrying a Stalin banner.
Also for starters Crow was barely in the SLP, and the elements of the SLP that formed the CPGB-ML basically were expelled/quit (depending on who you ask) because they kept on demanding the SLP take on close ties with the DPRK and basically went around wrecking when they didn't.
As for figures like Bob Crow today, I can't name any: purely because Crow was such a singular figure only surpassed by Scargill in the trade union movement. I would commend McClusky on his ability to bring unite around to left-wing politics, and for their militancy today in organising precariat workers I think the IWGB are immense unsung heroes. The point I was making is that there are loads of elements of the British left that deserve praise or notoriety: the CPGB-ML is not one of them.

Idpol under capitalism is used as a divide and conquer technique. It offers no improvement to the material conditions of the so called marginalized besides absorption into the machine that oppresses them. More women CEO's, more black presidents. All that.
The democratic party buys off the marginalized with self esteem boosting capitalist ideas of "representation". Which makes the marginalized feel as if something has been accomplished when in reality the material conditions are about the same.
Giant corporations use diversity campaigns to gain PR and profit. While of course, having sweat shops in the third world and other evils of that corporate nature, The left never call this out because it placates them.

Liberals take diversity and transform it into something to be consumed. Ancient cultures and peoples reduced into products and tossed into a shopping trolly. The real message: your race and culture dont matter. Global capitalism matters.

Identity politics is revisionist not revolutionary.
The neoliberal seeks the absorption of minorities into the system. Not its destruction.

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I've never seen anyone raise that as a selling point, in fact even supporters treat it as embarrassing. The reason people talk about them is they're the only genuine ML party in the UK and as such they deserve more attention and more support. So does radical trade unionism of course, the two things aren't in competition.

I know but it shows that Crow was ideologically aligned with them. And although the split with the SLP was ugly and shows the nastier side of the CPGB-ML people, they did have a point in that they as MLs they were fundamentally at odds with Scargill, who as the name of the Socialist Labour Party suggests was intent on going down the reformist path that had already failed with the original Labour Party. So there were irreconcilable differences between the two factions that necessitated a split.

I believe so. Otherwise it would be odd to support every single point the CPGB-ML if he isn't. This is why Phil Greaves also felt the need to attack some theories about gender, which made him a persona-non-grata of the Twitter left. He barely even gets likes and retweets anymore. Kinda ruined his career. No matter what you think about Greaves or his opinions on this topic, it just shows how right Mark Fisher was with his vampire castle pamphlet.

The Stalin banner thing is just a way to get attention. Media and libs are always outraged at it, which enables the small party to punch above their weight when it comes to coverage.

Is the party interested in that stuff? They actually seem to make a point of not talking about it. Whereas Greaves is constantly going on about trans stuff.

The thing is that they carry it at May Day: you think it is going to be easy to rally the working class with a massive UNCLE JOE banner literally looking down you?

...

A proper communist should seek revolutionary tendencies.
Liberals on the other hand push revisionists and reformist ideas. Not the destruction of the system. Do you think identity politics is a new idea? The soviet union used to call it bourgeoisie nationalism.

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they don't care, nobody really cares
no proper ML or socialist in general gives much of a shit
it's TERFs and liberals who ride this shit as their major talking points
and this Phil fag is just that, a fucking idpoling liberal