Anderson Cooper: When people hear the word socialism, they think Soviet Union, Cuba, Venezuela...

Why do all the demsuccs in America hate funs?

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Ew.

because they are undialectical

But how will you find a few billion to stop people dying on the streets?
But how will you fund mediwhatever for all? MUH FUUUUNDSSSSSS; why are ameritards so fucking retarded, everything I read, hear or see from them just infuriates me to no end. How can one nation (on average) be so full of ignorant, bootlicking scum? Fucky my ass and call me a bitch.

National debt is an intergenerational transfer of wealth.

America's mainstream center-left tends to be very pacifist, and this is just sort of ingrained. That said, there are plenty of arguments around for why this is - accepting an approach where the government should be molded to benefit the people (minus revolution), restricting arms makes a lot of sense in a capitalist society where they keep ending up in the hands of nutters who just decide to shoot tons of people. Although compromises like raising the gun age are ineffective nonsense.

Soccdems generally don't believe a revolution is coming - and they're probably right. But helping it to not come, for the rest of us, would be a mistake.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Retardation through the roof. Is the budget some sort of immovable thing that can't be shuffled around? Obviously if you fund public policies, you stop giving billion dollar tax cuts to the rich, you stop giving 1 trillion per year to the military. You make new goddamn priorities.
Hurr durr but your programs will cost X&Y, where on earth will you find the dollars? And on top of all this we already spend countless billions on healthcare while tens of millions cannot afford to go to the doctor.

And when revolution does come, succdems do everything in their power to stop it.

So UK, Sweden, Norway are socialism?

Why do the americans always do this?

And you are calling me retarded? AOC isn't an absolute monarch. She can't just snap her fingers and reroute F-35 money into HUD and food stamps. Any gibs she succeeds in legislating (and the prognosis of this is dubious to begin with) will be paid for with debt. Congress is serially delinquent with its checkbook. This is a systemic problem that AOC cannot solve.
The debnts objection holds water.

Revolution is literally inevitable tho.

Gun control just makes it more likely that the counter-revolutionaries would win when it happened.

Because they are so deprived of real political solutions and also so brainwashed by their own propaganda. They've been calling everything even slightly to the left of Ronald Reagan socialism for so long that they've started to believe it, only now a lot of them think it's a good thing.

Fuck you, retard. I am in no mood to argue with trolls today.

You have your heart in the right place, but I have two objections:
1. We shouldn’t be concerned with national debt because our concern is not saving capitalist society but changing it into something else. So if a high debt-load burdens the state to the point of collapse, so be it
2. Sovereign debt is actually far more manageable than almost anyone in economics has tended to assume. Britain carried a debt load of 230% in the aftermath of the Napoleonic wars and a similar figure was ran up from both world wars. The US carries less debt than Britain did at a comparable stage of superpower status. Japan also carries an enormous sovereign debt but contrary to the predictions it has been payable. While there are limits, the US can carry more debt than it is doing so currently. As economies grow, sovereign debts become easier to pay and the tax burden necessary less, if you add in inflation then the real debt burden will gradually erode. I don’t favor inflation by any means but the FED does.

all this being said if an American healthcare system just ends up being the same system but the doctor sends the bill to Uncle Sam than I fear that no amount of deficit spending could keep up yoy

eat my entire asshole you undialectical utopian reformist

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Muh gosh. Where did anyone say she'll do it on her own? And that was not what you wrote in your previous posts. You wrote, that people are concerned where the money will come from. Well it's pretty fucking obvious. It will come from other parts of the budget, it will be reshuffled.
B-but she cannot do this, she is no monarch.
Gee, thanks retard. You moved the debate into another field - how can she make stuff happen. Well obviously, she alone cannot. In the current political system ameridumbs have to vote for another 2-3 hundred ACOs to get them into positions of power so they together can vote on the budget.
And this brings us back to the initial argument, that Americans will never vote this way as they are retarded bootlickers that are happy when porky fucks their ass over and over and over.

Yes, have a fun time waiting for the revolution ho happen when the most "leftist" people in American politics are AOC, Sanders and Ralph Nader lmao.

It is truly the end of Zig Forums when the fake republican memeflag speaks more wisdom than the rest of you put together.

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Yes, a guy talking shit, trolling, hopping from topic to topic is really zee wise man.

fair.org/home/why-venezuela-reporting-is-so-bad/

Why are you being disingenuous and meshing shit up. Why are you making apologies for the ameritards that " are concerned about how programs like tuition free college and normal health insurance would be funded".
I tell you how this would happen.
You say haha yes, AOC will take on the Pentagon.
What are you trying to say, really? Or are you really just a bored troll? In that case, why do you troll?

">how dare people be concerned about more money for dem programs"

But why aren't they concerned for tax breaks, a trillion a year for the military, about people starting gofundme campaigns to be able to go to the doctor. So they are concerned about how we with universal healthcare (in a negative waY), but they aren't concerned about "right to work" legislation?!

Cooper is such pissant.
He's the son of a Vanderbilt. Of course he's going to pearl clutch at the sucdem

Because it's a great way to waste political capital.

Liberals want everyone else to be weak dumb faggots with them. Thats why they push for child castration, HIV poz, decriminalization of drugs, common core etc

any gibs she manages to push through, would be paid for with debnt.
This is what I am trying to say, nothing more.

This is another thing that boggles my mind about about America. Why is it that the people who want to legalize the guns want to criminalize the drugs and the people who want to legalize the drugs want to criminalize the guns? Either the government can effectively enforce controls on such items or it can't, and either the government should have the authority to legislate away choice in the name of safety or it shouldn't.

This is one topic where it seems like only the fucking Lolbertarians have their heads screwed on enough to have a consistent platform.

Really, what should she have said? North Korea? R*java? China?
Even if she isn't hiding her power level, this is probably the best answer to a loaded question.
Besides, it doesn't matter what she thinks socialism is. What matters is what she does.

In the end movements spawn from material realities. In an imperial hegemon you're unlikely to see (popular) revolutionary socialists unless the economy caves in, and you've got millions of hungry unemployed.
It's going to have to get a lot worse before Lenin-types start becoming popular.

Some of the policies enacted over the years in those countries were genuinely socialist - when seen in their historical context.
Hell, if they were enacted in the US today they'd be socialist.

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The people who own a lot of guns currently tend to be hobbyists and deranged right wing boomers and veterans who are likewise malevolent and reactionary. Leftist gun culture was destroyed by the FBI long ago.

So you think the US is so far gone that
a) voters will never vote 350 AOCs to congress
b) no legislation could ever be passed to move the US towards an European-like welfare state

?

Personally, I only want a gun to defend myself against drug dealers/users.
Kill the druggies and I probably won't want a gun anymore.
t. live next to two trap houses
t. threatened with knives and needles daily

a yes, b not sure
we might get some gibs for a while, but they necessarily would paid for with debnts which are essentially liens against federal land and the surplus labor of future generations

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lol

It really doesn't under closer scrutiny though. Debts are entirely artificial entities and the wealthiest love public debt. What holds "but muh debt" rhetorics together is pure ideology, not rational arguments. As long as boomers watching their TV think of the national debt as a bigger household debt, they can't see the big figure and understand they're being shafted of their taxes to the profit of the super wealthy.

But if you legalize the drugs then porky will steal their livelihood and they'll starve to death.

Whereas if you criminalize guns you've just opened up an exciting new business opportunity for enterprising lumpen.

But future generations will cancel all debts - because revolution.

But debt is basically what's keeping the global capitalist economy afloat.

I unirionically applied to a bunch of internships with lobbyists this week lel

if you think revolution is the way forward, why would you cuck revolutionary angst by ameliorating the shittyness of neoliberalism with gibs

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No, then they steal. Move to the hood for a few months and see for yourself. There are plenty of failed drug dealers turned homeless junkies.
Bullet to the head cures the problem instantly, without wasting 3 hots and a cot on scum

antimateralist desu

There's a pretty clear acceleration here

1. Gives lead to debnts

2. Debnts lead to austerity

3. Austerity heightens the contradictions

4. People hooked on gibs revolt

5. Debnts are abolished

aight this makes sense, i withdraw my previous objection

because, in America I don't see how a socialist revolutionary movement could come about

If not wanting to be stabbed with HIV and hepatitis needles for daring to step outside my apartment is called "bourgeois moralizing" then so be it

Yeah, then the cops will kill them for being thieves. Everyone is happy.

Why not? We had a pretty impressive communist party in the 20s and 30s plus the legacies of the Wobblies and other 19th century labor-radicals.

The Civil War itself was a kind of revolutionary overthrow of the slaveholding class—I would think a Republican *might* appreciate that

This was an actually insightful post, sorry for not replying to it. I was in a shitposty mood tonight.

yeah but that was post crash, also american working conditions were really shitty then

don't worry though, I think with all the fracking and other environmental damage trump may unleash, your revolution could be here soon

I deal with this shit literally every single day. I've called the cops twice this week, my neighbor called three times that I know of. I live in a rowhome with two trap houses. Cops don't kill the tweakers, they just yell at them and tell them they have to go somewhere else. Then the tweakers come right back in two hours and camp by my front door again.
Our county jail is already full of murderers, rapists and cartel spics, there's no room for random junkies.

I just put on the flag because the other flag guy pissed me off.

And there is the problem. America had a great labour movement (coal wars, blair mountain rebellion, even tiny towns such as Barberton Ohio had huge labor movements) even through to the mid 40s stil. But then everyone got purged. It already started in the second half of the thirties, when legislation forced local unions to join either AFL or CIO, the real radicals were purged by then. And the leftist that stayed got fucked after WW2.

Where would a new, fresh labor movements come from - and if it indeed could come from somewhere, why hasn't it happened already?

(continued)
And yes they steal, they took two wheels off my car, they stole my neighbors cell phone from inside his apartment, they stole my neighbors air conditioner while he was at work. No cops shot them. This people don't even have identities, they don't pay taxes, have drivers licenses, theyre nobodies, so they get away with all these crimes.

Well then you have nothing to fear about getting a gun and blowing them away.

I fear getting a jury of nigs and beans who hate me for shooting their fellow dindu

That would require a cop to arrest you first.

There would be a corpse left by my front door so I'm pretty sure I'll pick up a warrant

Then don't leave a corpse on your front door. Dispose of it somewhere.

I'm not Dexter, I'll probably fuck something up and get caught. Thanks for the ideas though
Tbh my best option is white flight, but there might not even be anywhere to flee to in a couple of decades

This is actually quite true
I was watching this doc called "Murder Mountain" a while ago about this town in the US which was pretty much turned into a giant weed farm by the local dealers
When the state goverment legalised it the Porkies swooped in began mass production and "standards" were put in place
Soon the Market was dominated by Porky megacorps the price dropped like a rock and most of the Grey Market dealers were forced out of Buisness

Yeah we don't really want low I.Q mongrels in Europe, stay in your containment country

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...

are you calling yourself a demagogue?

...

No, we just have a welfare state that is being dismantled since the usual middle/upper middle class of voters have convinced dumbass reactionaries that voting for bourgeois parties is alright as long as you "address immigration" (they won't do shit)
Like, it might sound socialist to an American that we have unions and healthcare, but even that stuff is being destroyed by the liberals and social democrats.

It's not and thinking it is is counter-productive tbh. Capitalism will adapt to the last.

True.

What is transitive law

Ah yes, the socialist countries of Britain and Norway!

Well, you see … when one sees people dying on the street and across the pond one sees a socialized public and universal healthcare system, one does perceive it as socialismus.

she's gonna force us all to listen to reggaton 24/7 it's gonna be horrible

This shit has to die. "Muh hidden power level" = what I'm willing to project onto people. Just take these shitty candidates at face value, minus a spine.

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AYAYE COCO JUMBO AYAYE

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Apparently it's fake.

People are too atomised/lacking social connection for any significant revival of the labour movements of old. You need an actual, genuine sense of (wider) community and attachment to the work involved for that to happen. As terrible as mining/factory jobs could be, it was somewhat expected that you'd be working a decade or more at the place (or a similar one elsewhere). Does anyone *actually* see themselves working at McDonalds or Walmart for a decade (that isn't terminally depressed)?

This is nearly as bad as "the only reason white people don't care about creating the white methnostate is because of Judaic subversion"

As for AOC, she reeks of astroturfing

She's just a Latina Beto, I'm embarrassed that Americans can repeatedly fall for this "WOW, THEY'RE JUST LIKE ME" shit after Obama and all of Hillary's cringeworthy 2016 shit

They were shitty but they were arguably the best in the world at the time. Even just in CPI real purchasing power, the average American worker then would probably be comparable to that from a NIC or poorer industrialized country. Based on Per Capita real gdp Per Capita the US was probably where South Korea was in the 90s around 20,000 Per Capita gdp.

That isn’t even exactly poor by global standards—though the people at the bottom have a hard time. You don’t have to walk very far to see people at the bottom still having a very hard time.

The whole “haha things are too good” argument doesn’t take into account that in the 1930s things were much better than they were in the 1800s. In the 1800s things were better than when they we’re in the 18th-17th centuries or the Middle Ages.

For 40 years, the US working class has seen real decline in their wages. The only thing that’s getting better is technology and the quality of the products they can buy. Literally the only upside is the whole boomer “guy working at McDonald’s has an iPhone” argument

In the late 19th century and early 20th century there was significant rises in real wages and workers still revolted. We can’t assume that mere hardship produces class consciousness. The past 40 years has been a disaster for Left-organizing and workers struggles—even the 50s-60s were better with their high rising real wages and barely legal/highly socially-repressive organizing conditions.

She's Latina Bernie. Beto won't even describe himself as a progressive.

What kind of 11d chess is the DNC playing to get a Democrat who was hardcore establishment and loads of money behind him shat all over by some newcomer that is also shitting all over the Democrats in general? Legit.

Is she ok with American imperialism? That's all what matters to me really.

Cope.

"The Democrats", including their establishment aren't a hive mind with a singular purpose.

Yeah, in the age of Trump what Democrat powerplayer wouldn't want a 56 year old white guy with a decade-long tenure of representing a safe, majority-minority district?

When the rhetoric matches reality, I'll pay attention.

The DNC establishment is actually pretty easy to predict in how it will react actually since it is mostly a load of idpol libs and corporate sponsors pushing them in certain directions.
Look where the corporate money is: there you will find who runs the democratic party. Crowley was swimming in corporate money, he was establishment regardless of what some wine-mom from Virgina tells yer.
What would said reality require in your case.

Someone should run on a 3 day weekend, mandatory vacation time along with a $15 minimum wage. Raising wages and shit is nice, and obviously medicare for all is something a lot of people want, but most of us are trapped in a 5 day work week, possibly with no vacation time. I think offering another day off in the week would get you a lot of attention from voters, even the mostly non-engaged ones. If you can spend an +/-1 hour on election day to vote for the right person, you might get an extra 52 days off. Well, at least a president who will advocate for that policy in congress.

Instead of answering this question she should have re-framed and disputed the biased premises. It should have been:

No I disagree that "people" think that. *Some* people think that, but people my age (30 and under) didn't grow up in the Cold War and didn't have their brains marinated in Cold War propaganda all their lives like boomers did. People have many different ideas of what socialism is or should be. "People" means more than just boomers and right wingers Anderson.

The fuck you mean "cope"? Bernie isn't good.

Fake and gay Blairite and Hollandian "socialism" is still an improvement for Burgerstan tbh. While she's shilling her shit in congress there needs to be a movement that's actually socialist that organizes and calls the progressives a bunch of fags so they can feel bad and move to the left

Tbf she wants free tuition fees which automatically puts her to the left of Blair.

This guy is from the Vanderbilt family and a former CIA intern.

I really only care about her stances on imperialism, which are not that great.

she doesn't even have anything on foreign policy that I saw aside from Israel and Palestine