Veganism

I'd have to add that the worst-case energy use (160 MJ/kg) is around 200 times higher than the actual energy in 1 kg tomatoes (810 kJ), so a 0.5% energy efficiency. In the best case scenario, it's about 100% efficient, around 800 kJ for 810 kJ, but open field cultivation can use even less energy than that.

Because I am anti-capitalist communist.

brainlets, please….

Having said that GMO and other stuff is only bad under capitalism. I don't think it's necessity under socialism, but if it is necessary it's ok.

Under a for profit system decisions that make money dont have to be rational in any other way. See making low wage workers do things a robot could do more efficiently in every conceivable way.

Water usage for tomatoes in greenhouses in my country (the netherlands) is 15 times lower than in the USA

This was Germany, fam.

25 times less than the global avarage. Best in the world baby, its entirely possible and practical.

Just don't use Monsanto seeds you spaz.

So what you're saying is that greenhouses work fairly well (as in not ridiculously unsustainable) in one tiny corner of the world (presumably with lots of renewables), while it works terribly everywhere else. So how exactly does this contradict my claim? The fact that you can get a handful of prototypes up and running does not mean that you can suddenly scale it up to the entire world, and with crops that aren't tomatoes. The vast majority of our agricultural production is cereals, is there any proof that greenhouses are viable there? Is there any proof that more sustainable open-field practices and technologies wouldn't be superior? I mean we could just as easily point to highly-sustainable open-field practices and scale those up, and I'd wager that those would compare more favourably. My point still stands that it will be a while before greenhouses or vertical farms are viable on a larger scale, and it is debatable whether it will ever be viable in the case of some crops (especially since you disregard gene modding). Meanwhile there are plenty of other technologies and practices which are more mature, which can see use in third world countries that can't handle the infrastructure costs of greenhouses sustainably, and which hold far more potential in terms of yield and sustainability.

why do we have these threads every month? Archive exists if you want answers and these threads always derail into this vegan vs meat ranting.