People's Republic of China general

Jack Cooper
Jack Cooper

To reduce clutter and low-quality threads about China I'm going to start anchoring threads and redirecting to here instead. If the subject is important enough to warrant a separate thread (let's say, a thread discussing maoism) then feel free to do so.

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All urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/UPH9iKpM-fk
thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2018/08/06/chinas-keynesian-policies/
thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2018/06/07/china-workshop-challenging-the-misconceptions/?relatedposts_hit=1&relatedposts_origin=15159&relatedposts_position=0
gc.cuny.edu/CUNY_GC/media/CUNY-Graduate-Center/PDF/Centers/LIS/imperialism_forcirculation_3.pdf
nytimes.com/2019/01/09/health/obesity-china-coke.html
anti-imperialism.org/2018/09/21/china-a-modern-social-imperialist-power-cpimaoist/
business.financialpost.com/opinion/terence-corcoran-chinas-most-dangerous-export-is-anti-market-ideology-and-were-buying-it
washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/if-only-nixon-could-go-to-china-could-only-trump-import-socialism
gizmodo.com/chinese-scientist-who-created-crispr-babies-could-face-1831553751
bgr.com/2019/01/07/he-jiankui-armed-guard-punishment/
businessinsider.com/timeline-chinese-scientist-claims-crispr-babies-2019-1
anarchimedia.com/2019/01/08/scientist-may-face-death-penalty-in-china-for-gene-editing-babies/
zmescience.com/science/news-science/death-penalty-chinese-scientist-04233/
dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/752233/
archive.fo/m6JBA
twitter.com/suxinPL/status/1083825757263224833
twitter.com/hongxianfeng/status/1083898462146519040
twitter.com/hongxianfeng/status/1083929580921008129
twitter.com/fduyuyture65/status/1084014755239481344
npc.gov.cn/englishnpc/news/Focus/2013-02/27/content_1759084.htm
lrb.co.uk/v41/n01/billy-beswick/short-cuts

Angel Torres
Angel Torres

First for Deng. Communism by 2050

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Henry Bennett
Henry Bennett

New Cultural Revolution soon, watch out Dengoids

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Adrian Martin
Adrian Martin

Maoist
supporting Deng
Pick 1

William Rivera
William Rivera

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Benjamin Rivera
Benjamin Rivera

corraling all discussion of the world's largest Socialist state into a single thread
What is this imperialism?
CHINA MUST GROW LARGER!

Jason Turner
Jason Turner

Maoist
not supporting Deng

Owen Reyes
Owen Reyes

This
youtu.be/UPH9iKpM-fk

Luis Foster
Luis Foster

CHINA MUST GROW LARGER
We will live in prosperity!

Justin Sullivan
Justin Sullivan

implying there will be an earth in 2050

Blake Gutierrez
Blake Gutierrez

praise xi fuck mao

Austin Jackson
Austin Jackson

The rock itself will be fine. The parasites on it's surface are all damned to hell.

Zachary Martinez
Zachary Martinez

Mao literally had him thrown in prison and called him a rightist wrecker.

Jonathan Howard
Jonathan Howard

Why? The only thing Deng changed is style of reforms.

Instead of the sweeping and radical decrees - testing them out small-scale and going from there.

Not a single thing he did was a policy he came up with himself during his tenure.

Carson Allen
Carson Allen

Go home, Gang of Four, you were shot

Jackson James
Jackson James

Too bad Deng wasn’t.

Nicholas Diaz
Nicholas Diaz

Not his fault he was a materialist and not an idealist

David Brown
David Brown

Was Stalin an idealist?

Wyatt Gonzalez
Wyatt Gonzalez

Dumping some stuff

Jaxson Cooper
Jaxson Cooper

do you have the Ismail /china/ reading list? anyone?

Landon Ramirez
Landon Ramirez

I don't. He always recommends this book though

Aiden Rogers
Aiden Rogers

If you don't do everything like Stalin you're a capitalist roader
Ultra-left deviationists. All of you.

Asher Cox
Asher Cox

I didn’t suggest that. The point is that Stalin developed the productive forces without resorting to capitalism. Also resorting to capitalism (like Deng did) makes you a capitalist roader.

Isaac Reyes
Isaac Reyes

Stalin's government was very good. Macroeconomy was very good. Country rose from destruction of WW1 and civil war became second largest economy in the world with powerful industry, strong purchasing power, advanced science, high life expectancy,high birthrate and young,large educated population.
Problem is that Brezhnev era has proven that at certain point Stalinist model of economy that is focus on heavy full state control of the economy factories is not sustainable. Grasping the large, letting go of the small is perfect solution.

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Tyler Lewis
Tyler Lewis

The Soviets were able to do that because the material realities in Russia at the time were different from China.
China in 1949 had less industry than Russia had in 1917 or even 1922 (For sources ill have to check my pdfs - I don't have them right here). For reference; when Chinese troops crossed into Korea, they weren't capable of producing even a single tank.
Likewise, they didn't have access to the world's largest reserves of energy resources. And what they did have, they had to share with more people.
From a foreign relations standpoint China was worse off than Russia after their respective civil wars ended: Unlike the USSR, there were were no nearby (willing) trading partners; China was a pariah and effectively under embargo, with most of the world only recognizing the ROC; Not that they had much to export, as China was even more impoverished than Russia.
For years they were able to secure a trickle of aid from the USSR - which itself was recovering from the fascist invasion, which had destroyed up to 70% of the urban areas west of the Urals.
Then, following the Sino-Soviet split the supply of Soviet investment and expertise dried up, and they were effectively on their own, only being recognized by the US in [b]1979.[/b]
This was also during the aftermath of the cultural revolution, which had upended China's fragile academia, and from which they were just beginning to recover.

It's against this backdrop that Deng and his allies decided to push for reforms that would let western investments and technology develop and modernize China.

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John Ward
John Ward

Using BB code on a mongolian basket weaving forum

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Wyatt Martinez
Wyatt Martinez

2781879

This stupid joke only works on half chan because half chan is rip of japanese websites and was originally created for anime discussio. Zig Forums is ripp of reddit and was designed so that boards would be created by users, rather than any specific threads like anime in hafl chans case.

Sebastian Nelson
Sebastian Nelson

This stupid joke only works on half chan because half chan is rip of japanese websites and was originally created for anime discussio. Zig Forums is ripp of reddit and was designed so that boards would be created by users, rather than any specific threads like anime in hafl chans case.

Jacob Evans
Jacob Evans

Not saying this holds true for Deng but pointing at the fact he served in the Communist Party for a long time is a pretty weak defense, seeing as plenty of people who turned into opportunists and class traitors throughout the history of socialism had been involved for a long time prior to that.

Jose Martin
Jose Martin

Maybe, but Deng was member of communist party for thirty years before it took power in China. As did many other members of Chinese politburo during Deg's time, some even participated in the long march, and third of them including Deng studied communism in Moscow.
And so did Den'gs successor.

Point is that, since most of these people actually fought for communism and studied it excessively I am inclined to somewhat trust them.

Levi Butler
Levi Butler

8meme isn't run by a jap

Jordan Russell
Jordan Russell

Jim Watkins is not jap

Dylan Rodriguez
Dylan Rodriguez

I understand the course of action Deng took from a rational standpoint but China is clearly not socialist, come on now.

Eli Morgan
Eli Morgan

So ahh what the fuck do they even do there? Do they have workplace democracy on any of their industries?

Nathan Rodriguez
Nathan Rodriguez

Nice screenshot. Here's some additional evidence.

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Noah Flores
Noah Flores

Alright here is a book called the battle for china's past about the Mao era and the two propaganda machines that are against it. Another book I haven't read yet but want to, and an article about the rate of profit in China as compared to the US and Japan.
Chuang is a good website to read although they don't post too often. I should say I'm also learning Chinese although I started not too long ago so I'm very much a newbie. Even though China is capitalist I still would love to work there.
Also I'm currently watching the film Mardi Gras: Made in China which is very sad so far. I watched A Touch of Sin last weekend, it was pretty good. A Touch of Sin can be pirated but Mardi Gras I could only find on Amazon.

I'm sure this thread will have a lot of BASED XI vs China is capitalist banter. I really don't understand Ismail's stance at all, he plainly admits there is a bourgeoisie, commodity production, labor market, reserve army of labor, private utilities, rich people in the CCP, etc, but still insists they are socialist. The Losurdo article I've seen referenced is literally neo-lib tier bs about markets being necessary for developing, China is in NEP, and a blatantly anti-marxist conception of "political capital" opposed to economic capital. Just because the government leases the land the businesses exploit workers on means its socialist? I don't see the logic.

Isaiah Gutierrez
Isaiah Gutierrez

(me)
Not to mention China's shitty foreign policy going back to the Vietnam war and the absolutely crucial role they play in sustaining global capitalism. Again, even if they are somehow deserving of the label socialist, they are responsible for providing the capitalists with massive amounts of cheap labor which they use for profits and selling cheap shit to placate the masses.
Also, nothing in Antiduhring, Critique of the Gotha Programme, Wages Price and Profit, or any other theory I've read offers a criteria of socialism that China even remotely fits. (Other than Leninist government with commie aesthetics.) Also The Governance of China has no value whatsoever

Liam Morgan
Liam Morgan

It has a capitalist economy in many spheres but to talk about “Chinese neoliberalism” as some Western Marxists like David Harvey is just asinine. I would say that China is something beyond even the semi-Georgist total industrial capitalism that Marx theorized as at least a possibility. True, Marx saw measures like state-control over land/rent as a likely necessity for capitalism to develop industrial agriculture to its utmost perfection but on the other hand, China has massive and significant social investment and planning.

There isn’t a Western government that handles investment in that way most OECD countries have 90% of the investment done by private entities. Hence, Michael Roberts points out the uselessness of Keynesianism in the aftermath of post-Keynesian studies showing how investment rather than consumption drives economies. The government can never spend enough, it can never cut enough gibs checks necessary to power an economy out of a dry spell while keeping production and investment in private hands. Quite frankly, the massive success that China has had should lead us to claim that socialism deserves at least some credit for it.

There is no real comparable political economy to what China has in the present world. Even when Keynesians talk about how Keynes “considered” socialized investment in a scattered way it was never more than pure theory. He also praised Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom” which would give some indication of where his real theoretical proclivities laid.

thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2018/08/06/chinas-keynesian-policies/
thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2018/06/07/china-workshop-challenging-the-misconceptions/?relatedposts_hit=1&relatedposts_origin=15159&relatedposts_position=0

I don’t think that China has yet even reached the lower-stage of communism in its most primitive phase but to think that there isn’t an underlying socialist structural element in their economy is just ultra-left dogmatism. China would be more properly called an actual mixed economy instead of the capitalist welfare states that Western economists try to pass off as mixed economies when all the evidence flies in the face of that.

Jace Green
Jace Green

(me again)
So you guys don't have to pick through the book, here are some interesting quotes:

According to a Chinese official report (Yang Tao 2007), in a couple of years a large number of state-owned enterprises have been transferred to private owners. Many of the enterprise owners are actually state employers holding government managerial and professional positions, and the proportion of this group of enterprise owners rose from 33.8 per cent of the total in 2004 to 67.4 per cent in 2006. This huge transfer of wealth from the state to the private sector, unprecedented in human history and carried through quietly and almost unnoticed, has been largely beneficial to those who hold political power and have connections with the establishment. >According to one report, which claims to be based on official
research done jointly by the Research Office of the State Council, the Research Office of the Central Party School and the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, 90 per cent of the more than 3,000 billionaires in China are the so-called ‘princelings’, sons and daughters of high-ranking party officials (Boxun 2006a).

When the mode of production is transformed, that is, when the
means of production are no longer publicly owned and when workers are no longer supposed to be the owners of these properties, the relationship between the trade unions and the state then become antagonistic. Deng saw clearly what the problems would be. So in 1980 he ordered the abolition of the Four Big Freedoms. In 1982 when the Chinese Constitution was amended, the clause of the Four Big Freedoms, together with the freedom to strike, was stricken out (Hu 2004).

During the SARS epidemic the Minister of Health was sacked and a policy of investing more in rural China was declared. To implement this new policy ‘the iron lady’, Vice-Premier Wu Yi, was assigned to act as health minister. Five billion RMB was allocated to implement preventive health measures in rural China. However, all of that money was eventually used in county and urban centres instead. It turned out that rural health clinics and facilities had all been privatized. The Ministry of Health, under Wu Yi, had no idea of how to allocate funding from the central government to private health businesses in rural China.

Christian Perez
Christian Perez

(all me)

My research in the Gao Village area in the past two decades and
my recent research in Long Bow Village suggest that many rural
people think that even if China had retained its collective system they would have had the same kind of living standard as they have now.
Wang Jinhong, who served as the Party Secretary of Long Bow
Village from 1966 to 2003, had no doubt this when I interviewed him
in February 2005. He had built a huge and comfortable two-story
house during the 1980s, but he insisted that he would have done the same if Maoist policies had continued.
According to one research study in Henan province, some rural
people actually think they could have done even better, and for
everyone. The survey was carried out in a county that had above
average living standards at the time of research in 2000. Among the 200 questionnaires returned (out of 208), only 11 per cent agreed that living standards had gone up a lot since the reforms. In contrast, 55 per cent of the respondents thought that their standards of living had not gone up much, 11.5 per cent felt they had not risen at all, and 22.5 per cent stated that they were worse off since the reforms (Zhuo Yi 2003). Similarly, 41.5 per cent of them stated both that their living standard would have been more or less the same and the societal habits and customs (shehui fenqi) would have been much better if Maoist policies had continued. About 90 per cent of the respondents thought that in terms
of healthcare, agricultural mechanization, irrigation improvement and technical innovation, reform policies have made the situation worse.

The fact that rural Chinese did not possess this or that consumer
good in the past was not the fault of Mao, they would argue. The fact that they do have them now is not to Deng’s credit either, they would say. Some of these consumer goods were not even invented then. The fact that grain yields are higher now than those during the era of Mao was not because they had no incentive to work hard then, as suggested by economic rationalists. The land yields more now because chemicals are used more extensively and intensively.

As late as 1982, the then Premier Zhao Ziyang
(1982: 1260) declared that the socialist transformation of rural China into a collective system was necessary and absolutely correct. But a year later in 1983 the CCP issued a command to dismantle the collective system, ordered the rural organizations to change the collectivist name of commune to xiang (township – a term used in pre-1949 China) and distribute land among households even though many were opposed to this. Some resisted the pressure, and there are still around 2,000 villages that have kept the collective system; these include Liu Village and Nanjie in Henan, Huaxi in Jiangsu, Daqiu in Tianjin, Henhe and Doudian in Beijing, Zhouzhuang, Banbidian in Hebei, Honglin in Hubei, Houshi in Dalian, Yankou and Ronggui in Guangdong, Tengtou and Wanhai in Zhejiang

I'm trying to contribute as much as I can to this thread because I think it's a very important subject and is very interesting to me, and I'm genuinely curious what Dengists have to say.

Logan Lopez
Logan Lopez

Yeah I definitely don't agree with people who call the PRC a neoliberal hellhole, but these are quantitative differences. The fact that their loans to African countries are easier to pay off is the result of market competition, they can use that to undercut Western investors and gain a foothold where there wasn't one before. Same with the credit expansions, when the entire capitalist world goes into crisis, when you have a centralized authority like the CPC which is able to act rationally (unlike western countries which have competing bourgeois interests which stall the government at crucial times) they can respond to crises in a way that lets them come out stronger. Also, yes I agree that there is an underlying element, due to the remnants of the Mao era and the people in the country who are still struggling to advance class struggle.

Also the notion of developing the productive forces is textbook revisionism at best and capitalist roading at worst.

Isaiah Edwards
Isaiah Edwards

but these are quantitative differences.
I would say they are qualitative as well, of course, China is better off than some pro-Western neo-liberal kleptocratic Third World state but nominal wages are certainly worse than developed countries like Britain and the US that have long-standing neoliberal policy regimes. You brought up the fact that Chinese business-owners lease land from the government, for instance, although it was a popular idea in the 19th century I am not aware of any Western government that owns a major part or a majority of commercially-leased land. Singapore and possibly Hong Kong are the only Western-aligned states that I know of that even come close to the ideal of classical political economy in seeking a capitalist system that seeks to minimize ground-rent.

The fact that their loans to African countries are easier to pay off is the result of market competition,
Hoxha made similar arguments regarding Soviet and Chinese social-imperialism–I think this point broadly holds true.

On the other hand, I think there are aspects of the Leninist theory of Imperialism that maybe questionable. Generally, bank loans are less profitable than industrial enterprise, in fact, Marx defined profit of enterprise as gross-profit minus interest. I've thought many ways about it and a pure economic financial imperialism can exist in this sense.

Although a pure financial imperialism can exist I'm too tired to layout a thought experiment for it here in the main its practical political function is to break down barriers to trade, fdi, and profit expatriation.

A real world example: Germany only has one international bank of any significance (Deutsche Bank) the US government under both Obama and Trump have hit it with fines partially for wrong-doing and partially in a shadow trade-war between the two countries. It seems to me that control over currency and sovereign debt are the main weapons of German financial imperialism but these things are mainly tools to ensure big profits to big industrial firms via massive export-drives and not to line the pockets of bankers.

Chinese "imperialism" probably acts in a similar manner. But whether monopoly firms behave and operate in the way that Lenin theorized is unclear–Marx and Engels themselves are astonishingly vague on this point. Likewise, it isn't clear that small firms/medium firms are innocent of the charge of imperialism but I'm a bit too tired to get into that.

Lenin's empirical case was actually quite good in his time: gc.cuny.edu/CUNY_GC/media/CUNY-Graduate-Center/PDF/Centers/LIS/imperialism_forcirculation_3.pdf

But, what parts still apply is unclear. The biggest financial imperialists today (US, Britain) are actually net capital-importers. Third world kleptocrats for instance use the banking systems of both countries to store their ill-gotten gains away from the prying eyes and fingers of their own people. Detrimental as it maybe it isn't financial imperialism of the type that Lenin described. To my knowledge, China does not behave in this manner on a significant scale. Even the off-shore system in Hong Kong is an artifact of British colonialism still integrated into the British financial "spider-web"

Mainland China, ironically, imports capital from Hong Kong.

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Jayden Perez
Jayden Perez

who is codemonkey

Wyatt Ward
Wyatt Ward

codemonkey is asian, but not Japanese, is he? I allways believed he is malaysian bourg kid or something like that

Joseph Phillips
Joseph Phillips

What is socialism and what is Marxism? We were not quite clear about this in the past. Marxism attaches utmost importance to developing the productive forces. We have said that socialism is the primary stage of communism and that at the advanced stage the principle of from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs will be applied. This calls for highly developed productive forces and an overwhelming abundance of material wealth. Therefore, the fundamental task for the socialist stage is to develop the productive forces. The superiority of the socialist system is demonstrated, in the final analysis, by faster and greater development of those forces than under the capitalist system. As they develop, the people's material and cultural life will constantly improve. One of our shortcomings after the founding of the People's Republic was that we didn't pay enough attention to developing the productive forces. Socialism means eliminating poverty. Poverty is not socialism, still less communism.

— Deng Xiaoping, speech discussing Marxist theory at a Central Committee plenum, 30 June 1984

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Aaron Clark
Aaron Clark

He doesn't explain how socialism is supposed to achieve the development of productive forces, he just says they are developing and calls it socialism. He - and his successors - never bothered to explain the difference of the "primary stage of socialism" and socialism proper, nor did he ever explain if his politics are just another NEP. Everything is see from the Chinese is vague and obsfucating, opens up more questions than answers, maybe deliberately so.

Joseph White
Joseph White

post this in the warsaw pact thread too

William Butler
William Butler

Gucci communism is the way of the future.

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Jackson Walker
Jackson Walker

OH NO-NO-NONONONNONONONONONONN
nytimes.com/2019/01/09/health/obesity-china-coke.html
A life sciences institute funded by Coca-Cola and other multinational beverage and snack companies even has offices inside the government’s health ministry

Gavin Hernandez
Gavin Hernandez

Detrimental as it maybe it isn't financial imperialism of the type that Lenin described.
in later marxist historiography of the post-war period (perhaps even earlier, as i'm not well informed) these would be called the comprador class which are natives that cooperate with the imperial countries to siphon off wealth from their country while taking a class for themselves.

Joseph Price
Joseph Price

Why doesn't China attempt to make any of their own designer brands?

Henry Gray
Henry Gray

china has tons of knock offs of every thing. A lot of people only pay for the brand, thought. Marketing is everything.

Xavier Cox
Xavier Cox

China bad
New York Times
not a single single shred of evidence for the relation they keep claiming exists over 2 pages
anecdots from U.S. lobbying

Oliver Anderson
Oliver Anderson

"Now, the only thing I have managed to keep as a hobby is
reading, which has become my way of life. Reading invigorates my mind, gives
me inspiration and cultivates my moral force." -Xi Jinping

Just wanted to remind you all to read.

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Ayden Flores
Ayden Flores

Now we know for certain that he isn’t a Maoist

Hudson Reyes
Hudson Reyes

kek

Gabriel Rivera
Gabriel Rivera

😂👌💯

Ian White
Ian White

I don't get the joke

Jaxson Sanders
Jaxson Sanders

Mao has a quote saying reading too much is bad

Alexander Johnson
Alexander Johnson

You guys realize that quote is terribly taken out of context and it's not really what he meant?

Jackson Bennett
Jackson Bennett

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Chase Gomez
Chase Gomez

Tell me whatever you want,but I dont see China defeating USA by GDP measures. China's economy today is much less developed relative to Japan's in 1989. It is not easy to compare economies over different periods of time but the best method for me has been to look at per capita GDP (PPP-adjusted) relative to the U.S. In 1989, Japan's per capita GDP was roughly 80% of the U.S. (this would peak two years later at around 85%). In 2015, China's per capita GDP is only roughly one-fifth of the U.S. Even if we ignore the less well-off interior and look at prosperous Guangdong province, its per capita GDP comes out to only around one-third.
If China's economy is less developed than Japan in 1989 how China can overcome USA by today's standarts?

Oliver Lewis
Oliver Lewis

Tell me whatever you want,but I dont see China defeating USA by GDP measures
But they already did. They're the biggest economy by PPP and on their way to surpass them in nominal GDP. If the US has a crash and China doesn't it could happen within a decade.
The comparison with Japan is nonsensical since China's population is significantly larger. They only need 1/4th of the USA's GDP per capita (nominal) to surpass them.

Jaxon Parker
Jaxon Parker

Furthermore China is very technologically advanced nuclear powered space exploring country. Thank uncle Joe for that.

Ryder Davis
Ryder Davis

I forgot mention by nominal but whatever, Zig Forums respects my personal opinion,right?

Adam Fisher
Adam Fisher

This is kind of a known unknown since America seems to be on the verge of shitting the bed.

Jonathan Lee
Jonathan Lee

verge
Have you seen the DOW thread, my nigga?
America IS in the shit rn

Easton Perry
Easton Perry

Yeah I just mean whether the impact turns out to be 2008 or Great Depression tier remains to be seen. It's not looking good for them though.
I wonder if Trump is such a dumbass that he doesn't realise that the shutdown is going to exacerbate it massively or if he's been told of exactly what's around the corner and intends on going full dictator.

Jordan Ramirez
Jordan Ramirez

As per Marx: (From German Ideology)
Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.
China is socialist not because it's some sort of classless utopia, but because it's policies - mainly in the field of economic autarchy, and elevating the living standards of the Chinese people - are vital to abolishing the present state of things.
Without advanced productive forces able to satisfy local demand it's impossible to abolish the key force underlying capitalism; commodity production.
This is in contrast to reactionary states like Russia, the US, the EU, etc. and - nowadays - Brazil which have vested interests in reinforcing the existing global system of economic specialization, finance capital and the exploitation of surplus value. Likewise, each of those states have (With the exception of Brazil until now) - in recent years - handed over control of their respective economies to oligarchs and other capitalist interests, often under the guise of austerity. With detrimental effects to the workers in those countries.

Contrast this to China where the Communist Party not only continues to control the commanding heights of the economy, but has actually expanded this control in recent years. All while livings standards continue to soar, and income inequality (both regional and between rural and urban regions) continues to decrease,
That said, I'm not arguing that everything the CPC does is socialist, or that there is no class conflict and corruption, or that they're somehow altruists and not acting in their own class interests as nomenklatura.

GDP per capita isn't everything. China's economy today has already surpassed Japan (1989) in terms of raw industrial output and infrastructure.
China has extreme unequal development, in that it's coastal regions are roughly on par with the rest of East Asia (bar pollution), but it's rural regions are lagging - sometimes decades - behind the rest of the country.

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Brody Kelly
Brody Kelly

Do anyone here learn Mandarin?
I have 憂鬱 btw

Jaxon Brooks
Jaxon Brooks

actually looking up to China
Is this supposed to be a comedy?

Sebastian Nguyen
Sebastian Nguyen

Where we should look up to? R*java?

Nicholas Young
Nicholas Young

If everything is shit, then it's shit. You aren't going with this "oh, maybe this one is a bit less shitty" mentality.

Dominic Gray
Dominic Gray

我做
but I just started recently

Robert Jones
Robert Jones

We shouldn't 'look up' to anything or anyone. Rojäva is an example of people organising themselves in a socialist manner based on their conditions. It is what we must all do after the revolution. Socialism in the US would look very different to socialism in Uganda, for example. Rojäva is a great case study and we can see what works and what doesn't, but it doesn't need to be a guide in any sense of the word.

Cooper Martinez
Cooper Martinez

rojava is a great case study in how to carve out a kurdish zion in syria with the aid of the US. it isn't socialist at all
china should in fact be looked up to for opposing imperialism and pulling millions of people out of poverty

Colton Thomas
Colton Thomas

if the US has a crash and China doesn't
Literally not possible with global supply chains

Gabriel Wright
Gabriel Wright

Revolutionary People's Wars my man

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Zachary Gutierrez
Zachary Gutierrez

China is an authoritarian commie shithole with concentration camps and no free speech

Nolan Miller
Nolan Miller

opposing imperialism
WRONG anti-imperialism.org/2018/09/21/china-a-modern-social-imperialist-power-cpimaoist/

Wyatt Gomez
Wyatt Gomez

China past 1976
commie

Michael Martinez
Michael Martinez

the USSR's government was made by Stalin

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Jason Peterson
Jason Peterson

wow what a useless article that doesn't say anything

Ethan Gutierrez
Ethan Gutierrez

Open the pdf, it's 30 pages you dumbo

Hunter Smith
Hunter Smith

Rojäva is an example of people organising themselves in a socialist manner based on their conditions
Rojäva is a great case study
Cant tell you are serious or not

Kevin Bell
Kevin Bell

我也爱学说中文。

Christian Anderson
Christian Anderson

bump to remind people to stop making separate chinese threads

Angel Gray
Angel Gray

Reposting links from another thread

business.financialpost.com/opinion/terence-corcoran-chinas-most-dangerous-export-is-anti-market-ideology-and-were-buying-it

washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/if-only-nixon-could-go-to-china-could-only-trump-import-socialism

Porky's scared.

Brandon Martin
Brandon Martin

They think the guy who let Vietnam become communist would stop china from doing so?

Parker Powell
Parker Powell

I have to see anyone adequately explain to me what's so bad about commodity production in socialist states.

Nolan Hall
Nolan Hall

It's more than just commodity production, the point of socialism is that labor isn't a commodity and production is done according to need instead of exchange. If China's commodity production was limited to shit like video games then it wouldn't matter, but it isn't limited. I guess its the problem of a quantitative change becoming a qualitative one - some people think the commanding heights meme and one party rule means they are still socialist

Jordan Jones
Jordan Jones

This. That dwarf is a prime example of reactionary revisionism

Thomas Carter
Thomas Carter

we will not do to chairman Mao what Krushchev did to Stalin
Right. Instead of talking down on him he and his friends fell for the exact sugar coated bullets Mao warned china about and completely abandoned even the tiniest socialist policies and went full fascist instead. They "honor" Mao by doing the exact oposite of what he and communists wanted but without blaming him for anything to keep themselves legitimate

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Ethan Lee
Ethan Lee

Chinese Scientist May Face Death Penalty in China for Gene-Editing Babies

gizmodo.com/chinese-scientist-who-created-crispr-babies-could-face-1831553751
bgr.com/2019/01/07/he-jiankui-armed-guard-punishment/
businessinsider.com/timeline-chinese-scientist-claims-crispr-babies-2019-1
anarchimedia.com/2019/01/08/scientist-may-face-death-penalty-in-china-for-gene-editing-babies/
zmescience.com/science/news-science/death-penalty-chinese-scientist-04233/
dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/752233/

The scientist who edited the genes of embryos implanted in a patient via IVF treatment and reportedly created the world’s first genetically edited babies could face the death penalty in China, his colleagues have warned. He Jiankui was placed under investigation after he released videos, claiming to have used gene-editing technology for seven couples in fertility treatments to provide their children with genetic resistance to HIV infection.

The Chinese researcher, who used to be an Associate Professor at Southern University of Science and Technology, in Shenzhen, used CRISPR gene-editing technology to modify live embryos. The procedure allegedly modified the CCR5 gene in such a way as to potentially make the offspring resistant to HIV. Instead of destroying the embryos, per research guidelines in China, He Jiankui and associates planted the embryos in surrogate mothers and allowed the pregnancy to follow through, resulting in the birth of twin baby girls. The birth has not been independently confirmed or documented in a peer-reviewed journal, but respectable researchers with access to some of He’s work say in all probability the work was carried through

He could face both corruption and bribery charges which carry the death penalty in China. Reports say he is being guarded at a state-owned apartment in Shenzhen. After his claims last November, the Chinese government moved in and stopped his research, but not until his patient had given birth to twin girls, Lulu and Nana.

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Gavin Nguyen
Gavin Nguyen

So what is the primary reason China is against this? Circumventing ethics or spooked out their mind?

Julian Harris
Julian Harris

Designer babies made by the rich

Ian Lewis
Ian Lewis

I still think Dengoids should be decapitated btw

Dominic Scott
Dominic Scott

Dengoids
Communists with Dengoid characteristics*

Levi Green
Levi Green

A new law aims to stop the booing of China’s national anthem
“ARISE! ARISE! ARISE! Millions of hearts with one mind,” go the lyrics of China’s national anthem, “The March of the Volunteers”. Yet many people in Hong Kong are not of one mind with China’s government. The territory has been a part of China since Britain handed over the former colony in 1997. But its football fans routinely boo and turn their backs when the Chinese anthem is played. At pro-democracy protests, a few people sometimes even wave the British colonial flag. Some youngsters are also beginning to demand greater independence from China.
The Communist Party in Beijing has responded as it always does when confronted: by flexing its muscles. It engineered the expulsion of six localists from Legco. It cheered the local government’s decision last year to ban a pro-independence group and expel a British journalist who had had the temerity to invite the group’s leader to speak at an event. Now, at the party’s behest, Hong Kong is preparing to introduce a law that would punish those who deliberately insult the national anthem with up to three years in jail and a stiff fine (see article).
archive.fo/m6JBA
what do you think? should the CPC being doing stuff like this?

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Lincoln Cruz
Lincoln Cruz

==WHY BLACK MAN NO STAN== tier.

Austin Perry
Austin Perry

Good Night Sparrow Pride

Lucas Gomez
Lucas Gomez

This is just a rewriting of another article it refers to (The Economists does this a lot I've noticed) which states (with no sources) that this law will be voted on on the 23rd. I'll wait until then to decide if it's real or not.
Does anyone else think it's suspicious how the muslim camps stories have toned down?

Adam Taylor
Adam Taylor

More imperialist astroturfed "protesting" against the lawful Chinese government.

Adrian Peterson
Adrian Peterson

get these 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧george soros🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 paid actors what they deserve
>inb4 replies not getting the joke

Blake Wilson
Blake Wilson

Mfw. People in Hong Kong had less democratic rights under the Crown then under the current PRC’s control.

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Ethan Turner
Ethan Turner

At this point. China must revive its Confucian, meritocratic values, otherwise consumerism and selfishness will continue to take hold.
Sadly, thanks to the Cultural Revolution and individualism from the West, selfishness and a lack of moral responsibility has taken over China.

Nolan Stewart
Nolan Stewart

they toned down because nobody gave a shit about a state atheist country enforcing the law lol

Leo Foster
Leo Foster

they're still pretty confucian though

Zachary Diaz
Zachary Diaz

Confucianism is reactionary garbage. Also the Cultural Revolution was a good thing that should not only be praised but replicated in future socialist revolutions.

Sebastian Reyes
Sebastian Reyes

we shouldnt have to look backwards for a viable social arrangement. It's like saying Europe should go back to Christianity.
It clearly said he violated research ethics, I guess it's just a breach they take very seriously since they let actual humans get born.
I have to see anyone adequately explain to me what's so bad about commodity production ftfy
freeze peach
'freedom of speech just watch what you say'

Brandon Perez
Brandon Perez

Based
Hong Kongoids are the Gusanos of the East

They already have
The average Chinese citizens income has much more purchasing power (Much more important then the straight up amount of money each earns) then an American citizens at this point

David Ward
David Ward

China must revive its Confucian … values
Confucianism is superstitious idealism. The Cultural Revolution didn't go far enough imo
Also
Selfishness
Nothing wrong with that. The socialist struggle springs from rational self-interest. Without it, you're left with utopian idealism.
This.

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Luke Bailey
Luke Bailey

gusanos of the east
They are much worse than that.

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Asher James
Asher James

Here is a very comprehensive and fairly recent book on exactly the structure and changes of the Chinese economy. You can see a huge drop off in 1980, which has continued, in the total share of output of SOEs in the economy. Even if SOEs themselves constituted a socialist sector, (which, mind you, the author does believe), then the "socialist" sector is smaller than that of welfare capitalist states. There is a short list in the appendix of the reforms, for any Dengist who wants to say that they just continued what Mao did.

Michael Walker
Michael Walker

HAPPENINGS IN CHINA
twitter.com/suxinPL/status/1083825757263224833
twitter.com/hongxianfeng/status/1083898462146519040
twitter.com/hongxianfeng/status/1083929580921008129
twitter.com/fduyuyture65/status/1084014755239481344

Chase Gomez
Chase Gomez

Translations(Via the TSA bitch)
[Golden Lake tonight]
Jinhu County, Huai'an City, Jiangsu Province, has used vaccines that have expired for 6 years for children. Covering the city's 21,000 children under the age of 14.
The parents finally stopped silent and went to the streets to protest. They used to be "staying quietly" and "not talking about state affairs"…
A few special police officers from the Huai'an city, the special police began to hit people.
It is rumored that Li Keqiang went to Jinhu tonight.
[Continuing Events] The fire of the stars can be punished. Under the dictatorship of the CCP, any fire of the stars may ignite the trend of the country. The people of Jinhu County have a fierce conflict with the black dog that came to suppress it. Listen to the angry cry of the masses. At this moment, I sent these tweets with tears…..[Later] At present, Jinhu County has been armed with martial law and the people have been suppressed…

Grayson Torres
Grayson Torres

holy fuck this is some next level boot licking

Adam Hill
Adam Hill

What will happen is that Beijing will decapitate the local officials, let a bunch of new ones take their roles and people will thank them for it. Protest in china is almost directed at local officials, never at the central government or party.

Ryder Hill
Ryder Hill

inb4 people wanting vaccines are actually CIA agents.

Joseph Bailey
Joseph Bailey

The amount of enterprises that are or aren't organised into SOE's does not make or not make a state socialist
What makes a state socialist is when it has achieved a economy for the development of society necessary to bring about communism (Socialism)

Christian Perry
Christian Perry

What makes a state socialist is when it has achieved a economy for the development of society necessary to bring about communism (Socialism)

So the USA is Socialist?

Wyatt Morgan
Wyatt Morgan

The US Goverment unlike china is not a dictatorship of the Proletariate and the economy is not geared towards the purpose of establishing Communism so no

Brandon Fisher
Brandon Fisher

The US Goverment unlike china is not a dictatorship of the Proletariate and the economy is not geared towards the purpose of establishing Communism so no

The USA is already the number one nation. All that needs to done is for someone who is a Commie to seize control of it. The USA has had like 300 years worth of Capital put into it.

You know, the the USN could be cut by 2/3s and no enemy nation invade, the US Marine cut by half and the US Army by 7/8ths and the Airforce by 1/3rd. So amazingly enough, the US military could survive an explicit hardcore, political purge on a massive scale.

Jose Martin
Jose Martin

I agree the US would likely have a very easy time transitioning to a Socialist economy and (Once Capitalism has lost its global hegemon) Communism

But that Dosent change the fact that the US in its current state has a capitalist economy and a political system entirely dominated by the capitalist class

Austin Peterson
Austin Peterson

So in what way are they socialist? Simply because their party says so?

Hudson Phillips
Hudson Phillips

If you're argument is that they have a communist party in charge and therefore increased production must be "building socialism", the last Congress was only 13.42% workers and farmers.

npc.gov.cn/englishnpc/news/Focus/2013-02/27/content_1759084.htm

Robert Fisher
Robert Fisher

slightly different figures on page 21 here but the trend is clearly visible

Oliver Sullivan
Oliver Sullivan

Because the PRC operates politically within the framework of a dictatorship of the Proletariate and economically under a Model of socialism

The article that you linked itself states that the representation of all groups of Chinese society (Including workers and farmers) is increasing in the NPC
It also shows that members of the NPC are still mainly workers and farmers directly and members of the CCP disproving the notion that china is "Governed by oligarchs"

James Ward
James Ward

So barely more than 10% is "mainly"? And no the largest demographic that was increasing was party members, which is separate from workers/farmers in that apparently anyone, including Jack Ma, can be one. By that logic, the US Senate is mainly workers and farmers, since Bernie Sanders was a carpenter, and I'm sure you could find at least one other person with a wagie background. Also,
operates politically within the framework of a dictatorship of the Proletariate and economically under a Model of socialism
Expand on this.

Adrian Gomez
Adrian Gomez

China
DotP
I think Ismail made this point as well, but I'm not really seeing it.
Most people in the People's Congress aren't farmers and workers, and I have yet to see this be the case for local governments.
Now I'm not a Trot, but bureaucrats really do share a different relation to the MoP than workers/farmers, even if they're vital to the operation of the state.
Not that it prevents China from being socialist however.

Aaron Perry
Aaron Perry

lrb.co.uk/v41/n01/billy-beswick/short-cuts
According to a report published by the Peking University Marxist Society, canteen staff work up to 14 hours a day, six days a week, with one day off taken as two half-days. According to the report, they are not paid for all the hours they work, and, in at least three canteens, the majority of workers have no social insurance
Most of them come from the surrounding provinces and moved to Beijing looking for work. They live in group dormitories underground.
letter cited the report as an example of the society’s contribution to campus life, and referred to its active support for workers’ rights on campus. As well as canteen staff, the PKU Marxists have supported the construction workers who staged a protest in 2015 to demand unpaid wages. But as they noted, it isn’t only university staff who have to deal with unfair labour conditions: ‘If the situation is like this even within the walls of a university, how ruthless must the outside world appear when its mask of compassion and harmony is removed.’
A group of fifty Marxist student activists were detained in August after demonstrating in support of migrant workers at the Jasic Technology factory in Shenzhen, where there had been protests when several workers were detained and beaten after campaigning to set up a union independent of the All-China Federation of Trade Unions, which has close ties to the Communist Party and to which all unions must be affiliated. The employees complained of poor working conditions and low wages, which weren’t always paid in full; they also said that the company had not paid the proper amount into their social insurance schemes.
The PKU Marxist Society in the end succeeded in reregistering for the new semester, but when students formed a group to investigate the disappearance of 22 student activists from five cities over one weekend in mid-November, they were called to a meeting with their parents and told they shouldn’t pursue the matter. Friends tell me there has been a discernible difference in the atmosphere on campus since, and security has increased.
The crackdown on migrant workers and their student allies is not surprising. The China Labour Bulletin, a labour rights organisation based in Hong Kong, lists nearly three thousand instances of collective action taken by workers in China since January 2017.

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Cooper Lee
Cooper Lee

Theirs literally zero things that make sure that the Chinese officials aren't bought out by the capitalist class, i.e Jack Ma joining the CP and don't transition to communism.

Michael Taylor
Michael Taylor

*there's holy shit im illiterate

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