We're currently establishing a local chapter in Göttingen/Germany and are thinking about ways to reach and ally with other preexisting leftist groups. The key question is whether there is any room for cooperation.
What are this board's thoughts on DiEM25?
DiEM25 has a nice progressive agenda but lacks integrity and SocDem economic measures aren't excluded yet. However, the synthetical approach of grassroots movements and transnational party fits to me (green anarcho-communist // democratic confederalist), therefore I joined a year ago and do little campainging now.
BTW I invited some people I know to your DSC. In your town, there is a huge potential (~2/3 left leaning voters). Educate, agitate, organize!
Reformist project doomed to failure.
When will socdem morons learn that the EU cannot be reformed?
There are only two options for any country in the EU:
1) Submit to austerity and cutting of social expenditure that is literally enshrined in the Maastricht treaty with its laws against budget deficits
2) Break with the EU and set out on the socialist path
There is no in-between. There is no option to "make the EU nicer".
I think it is an interesting project that certainly has merits behind it: even if I ideologically oppose it on several levels.
What Varoufakis is doing is effectively articulating a response to what has been occuring in the European left since 2008 when the mainstream social democratic parties died. To get it you have to get what was the ideology of these parties: social liberalism, europeanism, and third-way neoliberal economics. Now the collapse of these parties has mostly been down to them selling out first their working class base, then their youth base, and finally in an attempt to get those to back in a cynical manner, the educated middle class base. The best example of this is PS, which lost a lot of its working class votes to Le Pen (less so the left), its youth base to Melenchon, and its middle class base to Macron. Now how these votes split is all over the place but in only a few examples (Corbyn being premier) has the working class returned to supporting a major left-wing party and that was through adopting left-populism. Now the youth vote is difficult to categorise because it depends on local conditions: in Britain it went with Corbyn, Germany the openly neolib FDP, in Italy the syncratic anti-establishment M5S, etc. The Middle class likewise tends to gravitate towards liberal parties, and I mean liberal as in terms of social stances: in Germany they head towards the Greens, in France to Macron, in Sweden to The Centre.
Now what is the point I am getting at? Well to attract the working classes back to a left-wing movement one needs to adopt populism to do so: this may reconstruct the working class and an element of youth support but this inherently alienates the social liberals because they tend to be anti-populist. So what is the response to this? Currently they gravitate towards either redlibs, greens, or harmful neoliberals. What Varoufakis is angling for is a party that unites elements of this youth and middle class vote behind Europeanism and then introduces a quite frankly anti-neoliberal manifesto to back it up. There's a point he made, after the failure of SYRIZA "Socialism doesn't mean anything, it is discredited in my country [Greece]. So we decided to go back to an older term: Democracy". He is effectively taking the other half of the old Social Democratic Coalition and turning it towards productive ends rather than getting entrapped by either revisionist greens or outright anti-worker neolibs. However he realised that to deliver a properly europeanist reformist agenda, he has to run at a European level. That way, Diem simultaneously acts as a political party in its own right, a transnational pressure-group, a think tank, and/or a part of a domestic coalition. To add to this, Diem also works with domestic parties: whose nature really show you how it works. You have the Czech Pirates, a Danish Green party (they have two), two splits from the PS (France), a German meme direct democracy party, an alliance of small Italian parties (which contains the mayor of Napoli), and a Polish party that's thing is organising the precariat. Now that is quite an eclectic group ideologically, but the point is that his isn't an ideological movement: it is a post-capitalist movement that can contain all of that because it cares about the platform more than ideology. The platform is what unites all those together, it is certainly a strategy I'll give him that.
Now while I sound supportive, from my position as a Bong I do not agree. I think that left-populism along the lines of Benninism (Corbyn, Melenchon, Wagenknecht) is the way forward: however I look at Varoufakis and I see someone who is building a left-socdem movement that is pro-worker and is eroding the electoral base of anti-worker neoliberals. Most of the people that voted Macron could easily vote for Diem (or in France's case, G.s & Nouvelle Donne). It's a-ideological nature makes it attractive to these cohorts and thus it is a benefit to the populist-left, not an enemy of it.
Now there is some ideology behind Varoufakis' stuff sure, I think his main thing that he got out of the whole Greek debt crisis is that capital in Europe must be attacked at a european level which is a fair point. But his entire strategy is inherently base in actionable goals, his programme is not the means to an end, but the end itself. Is this a threat to the western left? Not really no. His programme would do so much to harm the power of capital it would be more of a benefit than a detriment.
So yeah, I wish Varoufakis luck as a fellow-traveller, and I can see the motive behind his line even if I do not agree with it.
this poster makes it sound like you're trying to fuck europe in the ass
I looked up their policies:
It reads like a socdem program from the 80s. DiEM25 is going nowhere.
lol look at Britain, leaving the EU is a cluster fuck. "Let's elect Melechon and watch him negotiate an exit for 10 years while Le Pen mocks him" is not the path to socialism.
Make the EU nicer is certainly an option, and its the only moral one. How do you expect Socialism in Greece, Ireland and Portugal when they're trapped under the yoke of the EU. If anything you should make the EU nicer so that countries can leave it.
There's a reason why you didn't mention Pablo Iglesias and Gerry Adams. The UK and France theoretically might have the ability to leave the EU without causing a disaster and going on their own path, the other 20-odd countries don't have that option. Look at what happened to Greece.
Maybe the people of France will be better off if they leave the EU under Melechon, but doing so without using the power to make the EU better (or destroying it) is sociopathic and lacks the solidarity we pretend to have.
Again Varoufakis isn't aiming for the "left-behind rural working class" but the professional class that are currently used by porky to enact their goals. They actually want that.
Well I didn't mention Gerry Adams because the man is a washed-up has-been.
As for Iglesias, I think the Spanish electoral left's chances have sailed now that VOX has arrived. Spain will become ungovernable next election with the centrists too disgusted to go into a pact with VOX (for the wrong reasons mind), and no Lib-Lab coalition for the PSOE available anymore. Spain is going to have to go extra parliamentary for its goals.
Regardless though, left-populism is the only way to reach the rural working class abandoned by conventional social democratic parties and communist parties since the 1990s.
wut. The UK and France don't have that power even between them both, they will just get told to fuck off by the right wing fags in Eastern Europe and the Med. That's why Brits don't believe in EU reform.
However, if they both left the EU the project would become entirely funded by Germany, which wouldn't last.
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How is Diem25 "Imperialist"?
Who cares? It's still more feasible than what you're proposing, which is to literally WIN EVERY ELECTION IN EVERY SINGLE EUROPEAN COUNTRY SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH A LEFTIST MAJORITY SO YOU CAN CHANGE THE NEOLIBERAL TREATIES.
ON WHAT FUCKING PLANET IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN? DIEM25 IS ONLY GOING TO GET LIKE 0.2% OF THE VOTES YOU MORON.
???? Do you even understand that you're supporting me with this statement? You're right, it's IMPOSSIBLE for Greece, Portugal, Ireland, etc. to be socialist as long as the EU exists and lives and breathes.
It's not about a simple reform but a revolutionary basic democratic constitution transforming Europe into a post-capitalistic society. It's not build up on nations but rather a transnational path. There are anarchists, communists, socialists and socdems in DiEM25. Noam Chomsky is part of our Coordinating Collective, Slavoj Žižek and Naomi Klein are in our Advisory Panel.
Your objection is based on an anachronistic term of working class. The wage-dependent population is the current revolutionary potential. Climate change, digital revolution and globalization changed the historical-material situation. This is why ML methods don't work in post-industrial societies anymore. But you're right about:
Basic democracy means that you are intentionally not giving elaborate answers because it needs a horizontal public discourse to develop our answers together. The measures for the transition phase however are vivedly discussed internally. I personally advocate for the following management of means of production depending on the level: govermental-technocratic authorities, respective workers, machines, affected local communities, voluntary mutualities and even abolishment of some organized productions.
Howeverer, without support of the public every leftist movement will sooner or later comprise its ideology. Still a radical ideology discourages many people. How to not fall back into state-capitalism and left-keynesianism economic while still couraging people towards an open society and not relying on cult of personalities are my main concerns as I already said.
According to the self-conception, DiEM25 is an activist grassroots movement. There are actually calls for direct actions in DiEM25 and especially when the parliamentary approach doesn't work my body is ready. Also, we have an internal expiration date of 2025 right in our name. So either something developed from there or more effective measures will need more of my time. It's not the only movement I'm active by the way. A true revolutionary mind chooses as many struggle as she can holds.
In other words: a total pipe dream that will never be passed or occur because you'd have to win literally every single European election.
Yeah you and like what a dozen other people (probably less) are going to what? Protest peacefully and ask the EU to stop enforcing austerity on everyone? Pffftt. Or maybe you have guts and want to expand the Yellow Vest protests. Well guess what? You're only like 0.2% of the entire European population and do not possess the ability to rally entire sectors of workers trans-nationally to stage such a rebellion.
Oh good so when the movement fails to accomplish literally anything at least it'll disband and stop sucking up productive labor that could be directed to other projects, like ensuring people like Corbyn and Melenchon break from the EU and rip out its heart.
This, it's better to vote for a small communist party instead of a small socdem party.
Not true though, two of their allied parties (the Danish Alternative and Czech pirates) are guaranteed seats in the European parliament.
Both liberals.
Not really, ones a green party and the other are a pirate party: both of which have conflicts with modern neoliberal social liberalism.
That doesn't mean they aren't liberals.
Don't just spout words like they don't mean anything.
They just want to reform capitalism to make it more ecological and more Internet-friendly instead of abolishing it, they are liberals but in the "opposition".
How clever of you. There is more to liberalism than just the corporate neoliberals that Zig Forums likes to complain about. Alternativet has barely any economic policy, they just want greener capitalism.
Pirates are pretty anti-capitalist because they want to abolish copyright: which has been a linchpin of capitalism since the 1700s.
I green texted what you said, just not what you wrote.
Anti-capitalism is the abolition of wage labour, because it's the base of capitalism.
I'm pretty sure I just elaborated on 'what I said', and it has nothing to do with what you cooked up in your idiot little brain.
Regardless, the Czech Pirate party wants to achieve something inherently at odds with capitalism, as such take anti-capitalist stances.
It's called reading between the lines mate, I've seen you're lot before: we used to piss on your heads in the olds days of leftypol. Don't act like some big bollocks because you called someone you don't like a liberal you infantile wankstain.
nigga that's not how countries work
Except they think their project is totally compatible with capitalism, if not they would be against capitalism itself, not just an aspect of it.
you do realize that like 90% of "leave the eu" propontents are reactionaries who'll make everything worse for the average person. Voting for EU reformists is the best thing we can do, outside open rebellion and revolution. And we all know that in it's current state, the european working class is not even close to being class concious enough to start an insurrection.
yeah and the EU will live and breathe no matter how many frankly, irrelevant shitholes leave it. Germany is the backbone of the EU, it's the head of the neoliberal hydra, with a yolk so powerful, simply "leaving the eu" will not let a country break free free from her imperialist leash.
it's reformism or uprising. No inbetween.
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Maybe you should start reading the actual lines then.
Fucking lol, says the guy who doesn't even know what 'anti-capitalism' means. Unlike you I actually know about these know about some of these parties. Alternativet has no systemic critique and their policies have always been vague. Their notion of a greener future is more electric cars on the roads. You can't even call them socdem. They are never going to challenge liberalism or the status quo in general. If you want to see a 'green party' that isn't a bunch of waffling libs, look at the red-greens, and guess what: they're against the EU.
I don't even know why I am arguing with you, because it's plain to see that you have nothing worthwhile to say.
There is NO possibility of enacting change you retard. When will you get that through your dumb neolibtard EU-propaganda infested brain? It's literally INSCRIBED into the FOUNDING EU TREATIES that prohibit spending above a certain amount!
What is easier, ONE party winning ONE election to leave the EU or a billion different parties winning elections across Europe simultaneously to finally put a strong Left in position to amend the EU treaties?
Again, WRONG. The Euro currency in addition to the European institutions and whole setup of the EU is the source of Germany's power. Breaking free from both is breaking free from German imperialism.