For us Communists, Fascism is the means by which to end history by making sure the Bourgeoisie still exist and the Proletariat don't have their final victory. And Fascists are the ones who bring it about.
Is there legitimately any possible way for it to happen? Like is there any possible way to end Class Struggle between the Bourgeoisie and the Proletariat?
Note when I say is a threat, I mean in the longterm.
I make this thread to discuss because while it is good to go after Fash and stop them I feel that the source of their power, State and Business should be targeted first. I fear more about tech companies like Google or Gov organizations like NSA than them. I think it is corny to say that Late Stage Capitalism is Fascism when there is nothing stopping people from going out and voting for a Communist Party in the West if they wanted to.
The Proletariat will smash the capitalist state, transition into socialism and abolish themself as a class, leading to the abolition of class-distinctions
Seeing as the political climate in Europe, America and basically everywhere around the globe has been gradually moving more and more to the far-right over the course of the last few years, I don't see why actual fascism couldn't rise once again. But it won't "resolve" class contradictions as fascists claim it will, seeing as that's impossible. Reformism has never worked. Most of the time when communist parties get to power they are simply forced to adapt to the realities of the age of austerity, either that or they will be ousted / they will be overthrown by imperialists if they go too far, the same way Allende was back in the 70s. Nor can a communist party being in power simply change a bourgeois state into a proletarian one. And the chance of communists coming to power in nations like the US is zero to start with
Here's the thing. Fash want to end class contradictions because they think that it's possible for everyone to be one big happy family. They do so via having the State have the power and not the Bourgeoisie. The Bourgeoisie give them power because they fear the Proletariat and the Proletariat give them power because they give solutions to their problems.
The Capitalist State exists for the purpose of explicitly exploiting the Proletariat and giving everything to the Bourgeoisie. This is far more powerful and dangerous than any Fash IMO and focusing on them is better than the Fash.
And they literally have billions of dollars and etc to fund high tech projects and shit like that. Not only that but in the name of efficiency companies like Google and etc reach God-like powers.
Fash don't have any power whatsoever if you look really.
the communists never gained electoral power in the west except in short instances of coalition between socdems and comms in italy in the late 60s. however, the communists had bastions of power in certain regions, gaining all their seats and almost all positions of local power. I know vaguely of red bologna, but did communists in france and italy (two biggest most powerful in post-war west europe) ever try to change the nature of the state on the local level? or were they just radlib reformism in practice?
There were Communists in France who voted for the bill that Zig Forums thought would end memes and the Japanese Communist Party only protects the rights of loli artists (that Tanya is Evil author is a member).
not talking about comms of today. I'm talking about the heyday of communist electoral power in france and italy from 1945-1970s/80s
Yes. You can all exit the thread now; you are welcome.
According to ML theory, the fascist movement (or whatever you want to call it) is not threat in the sense that they're not allowed to get into power by the bourgeois until certain conditions are met, ie. a huge crisis, the collapse of liberal democracy, etc. Capitalists trade basic liberties for an all out dictatorship in order to maintain their power. That's why Dimitrov called fascism an open reactionary dictatorship, it's no longer "concealed"
Yes fascism is a major threat when coupled with climate change. You'll have a future world consisting of super-fascist violent states who are EXTREMELY antagonistic towards each other, consuming and producing without a care for another. As conditions worsen, so to will the political system. Europe especially will always revert to fascism when crisis hits.
Even without climate change, don't doubt that the elite haven't made plans to make cattle out of us all through drugs or some other shit.
Also another reason why fascism is so destructive is that it ACTIVELY seeks out and kills and leftist intellectual/activist where fascism takes hold. Setting back progress by decades.
The thing with fascism is that it's a response to when capital is either under attack or needs to be defended, so only rears its head when that occurs. In this way, it can said that it is always a threat, just not always an immediate one. So long as capital exists, then yes, it will be a threat, but can't really be said to a short-term or long-term one. It's just *there* as an innate one.
A threat is when a majority of people are incapable of doing anything differently. Fluidity is what keeps the economy flowing and when there is no fluidity thatvis something called "stagnant" Fascism doesn't work because it causes death.
if fascism is capitalism in crisis and the rate of profit is always declining (therefore capitalism is as always in crisis) why aren't all capitalist states all fascists all of the time?
Capital is not a threat until it becomes stagnant. It must move and flow.
also italy had the strongest communist movement in western europe post-war so clearly fascism is not a good reason.
crises and the rate of profit aren't correlated. crisis occurs after investment over-exceeds profitability.
Contrary to what radlibs will tell you fascism is the logical conclusion of liberalism. Every western country just varying shades of fascist.
Most people don't know what capitalism is today because its "outdated" in its true form, no longer practiced by most nations. Capitalism is simply supply and demand, equal competition in the market place. Consumers demand goods and services, entrepreneurs start businesses and provide good services. When a business failed it would fail because it didn't attract enough consumers and went bankrupt. Some businesses thrived, others did not. Nothing more to it. That was capitalism for many many years.
Today? Today we have a movie you'd call "The Big Short." Watch it. You'll get it. Today is not yesteryear. The system today is 100% debt insolvent and quite frankly, utterly fraudulent.
everything is basically fascism fascism simply just werks
I know you meant to be funny but given the choice I'd rather Feds and Tech employees get shot because they are a bigger threat. But the thing is if you do that they can be replaced. The State and Business need to be overthrown.
I wish the hatred that people have for Fascists would be projected onto the Government and Corporations.
Literally italy was the only place where fascists allowed leftists to live.
wat. You seriously think national joint stock companies like the dutch voc or the british east indies company operated under these rules? from the beginning they used military force to back up and secure their commercial ventures and brought eastern luxury goods and sold them for gigantic profits on the european market. thats not equal competition, not entrepreneurial in any sense because risk shared among dozens of shareholders. south sea bubble 1711 you historical illiterate
if anything capitalism is the story of convincing other people you took large risk to make something when you either stole someone else's ideas (e.g. thomas edison), took commodities by lash and gunpoint and other hidden tortures of the production process or leaned heavily on existing social and economic networks you were born into
Overt fascism is obsolete. Fascism only arose soon after universal sufferage was granted along with the beginning of modern nationalism and crises such as WWI. The fascism of the future will be much more subtlely authoritarian, much like America, a crypto-fascist state at best. It has “elections” continuously traded between two closely-aligned factions of the some plutocracy allowing the people to think they have power, a mass-surveillance apparatus on its own citizens, CIA blacksites on its own soil (Chicago, etc), an increasingly militarized police along wth the growing abuse of executive power nearing dictatorial proportions (executive orders, ability to admit troops to combat without congressional approval, that national emergency act, etc). America is literally that meme with a monster wearing a smiley-faced mask. Outwardly it is a “great liberal, free democracy” while behind the mask it is a mechanized killing-machine controlled by corrupt plutocratic capitalists
Communists want to stop capital. How does one stop capital other than by accumulating a lot of it and never releasing it? Communists treat capital as prisoners and this is why communist economy appears to be inflated. Communists have lots of it despite hating it and communists take it without deserving it. Basically communists would inflate prices without distributing the means for people to afford those prices. Makes capitslism look bad even though the capital is being held hostage and abused by bad people.
Yes, play Nazis retards on the internet will take over the world.
It's a joke. Modern fascism is a parody of the old system. Fascism emerged largely because you had millions of veterans of the first world war that were unable to reintegrate back into society.
Modern fascism is a bunch of NEETs that can't integrate into society. The old fascists had military experience which gave them not only experience with weapons, but for the junior officers gave them experience organizing men for action effectively. Modern fascists can't organize anything more complex than a youtube comment section raid, because that's the only experience they have.
America is the ideal fascist state honestly. Everything fascists wanted they have sans the ethnic purity shit. It's no coincidence that every far right government in existence today is trying to quickly morph their country into America.
Who would win in a streetfight? Young Stalin or Young Mussolini?
He was the editor of the leading socialist newspaper, so im not sure if false to say he read no theory. Problem was he read a lot of reactionary shit like sorel nietzsche and other stuff i cant remember. He got kicked out of the socialist party for supporting the the war against the Ottomans in Libya
how do you do fellow leftists :>)
except they don't If by power you mean the ownership of the means of production(in which case they would no longer be bourgeoisie), because that is where capitalist's power lies. The state is just a tool of the ruling class.It being in control of the most or all MoP doesn't say much about which class is the ruling one or if classes exist at all.Such state can be either state capitalist or socialist.
This and also that "crisis" can refer to political crisis—one in which there is a real existential challenge to the system (like in Germany 1919-1933, Chile 1970-1973). In this case it becomes absolutely necessary to suspend democracy when the outcome is no longer in the favor of capitalism, and a transition to fascism occurs.
Syndicalism is preferable than capitalism imo but fascism is a dead ideology anyway.
The British east India company was actually quite small in the beginning it acquired the sizable military force After it acquired the sizable capital to purchase that military force
Most modern 'fascists' are pissed off working class white proles who have been named that by antifa There are no formalized fascist parties left in the world it's an ideology tolerated far less by liberal democracy than socdem/communist leaning ideology
Ethnic purity isn't a fascist idea, even the Soviet Union had certain laws and practices that could be considered racist by today's standards More of a condition of the era than the ideology
Well they would be comrade in arms, due to both being socialist.