Yo I leave the board for a year and this place seems infested with SWERFs and TERFs. What the fuck happened?

Yo I leave the board for a year and this place seems infested with SWERFs and TERFs. What the fuck happened?

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Its not as bad as it looks but:

B a b o o n s run the zoo now

BO seems completely absent now which actually a great development under the circumstances

Old leftypol is never coming back sadly.

why did this happen to us. It was so nice.

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Influx of "ironic" racists, sexists and so on, and a chronic lack of theory. I will however say if you mean SWERF to mean someone who wants to abolish prostitution in socialism, you're wrong. There is no place for prostitution or a pornography industry in a socialist society.

"What we can now conjecture about the way in which sexual relations will be ordered after the impending overthrow of capitalist production is mainly of a negative character, limited for the most part to what will disappear. But what will there be new? That will be answered when a new generation has grown up: a generation of men who never in their lives have known what it is to buy a woman’s surrender with money or any other social instrument of power; a generation of women who have never known what it is to give themselves to a man from any other considerations than real love, or to refuse to give themselves to their lover from fear of the economic consequences. When these people are in the world, they will care precious little what anybody today thinks they ought to do; they will make their own practice and their corresponding public opinion about the practice of each individual – and that will be the end of it."
-Engles, Origins of the Family

Transwomen are the black-face of females

A large amount of prostitutes are forced into the profession, either by a pimp or literal human trafficking. Even those who voluntarily become sex workers oftentimes are deprived of consent, as their livelyhood is dependant on selling themselves. If they were to decline clients they didn't want to sleep with, they could starve.

If you hire a prostitute, knowing that there is a very real chance that they are not able to truly give consent, then you are a piece of shit.

Who knows, maybe CIA tricks, most likely BO just got too into the ultratankist 'anti-imperialism' cult.


It's more likely that this entire board is a CIA trick to keep us holed up online and blow steam at each other instead of going out into real life

This is an awful comparison if you think a cashier selling you a sandwich is the same as a woman who is being pimped out to be fucked by men she doesn't even know.

MY boss fucks me every day and I dont even know who it is.

Online activism is more effective than some marches nobody will even see because it's not reported by the media though. At least for nerds like us.

Most low wage workers are coerced into doing their jobs by economic circumstances and would rather not be there so why be precious only about sex workers? At least some of them make a good wage for not that much work, even if it is unpleasant.

Not to be that guy, but we always had these debates. They were more muddled under the sectarian mass that was older Zig Forums, but they existed. It's just now there are less tendencies and the board is slower, and thus discussion is little more clear and can't be attached to specific sects as deflection. Hell, Cockshott threads used to be literally filled with discussion about his opinion on transgenderism. Also, being critical of sex work and gender isn't anti-leftist in any way

Thank god the redditors stopped spazzing out over that.

Online activism is more effective than some marches nobody will even see because it's not reported by the media though. At least for nerds like us.
Online """"""activism""""" is literally the least effort you put into supporting anything. It relies on hoping others will do things in your place. Real life activity is literally all that matters and will ever matter, not even just talking about marches. No excuses.

I know it's le epic meme to be an edgy misogynist, but I'm perfectly happy that a legitimate, materialist position on prostitution and gender has taken hold here

As we all know socialism's core tenet is stopping people from controlling their own bodies.

I still don't know what the fuck TERF and SWERF is

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People who realize that transgenderism just furthers the gender binary, and that prostitution is rape.

Yeah same. Most leftist spaces seem to be inundated with trans rights advocates and "sex positive" liberals.

The terms TERF and SWERF are used to shut down discussions on gender and sex work that go against the prevailing liberal narrative.

I'm okay with anti-prostitution and anti-pornography INDUSTRY if it proceeds from the anti-capitalist basis that prostitution will stop existing because money will and therefore you can't trade sex for money in a socialist country, and that the pornography industry as currently understood will stop existing because it is capitalist.

If instead someone means that women can't choose to have sex for compensatory reason that are not capitalist then they are violating the very point of socialism which to me is to free people from capitalist chains which force them to do things they don't want to do ON PAIN OF POVERTY AND MATERIAL DEPRIVATION. Likewise, pornography can be produced in a non-capitalist manner. What is gonewild on plebbit but women freely sharing images in a way that undermines the capitalist pornography system. Yes, such things are implicitly socialist.

I think the issues crop up because although we mostly agree on what socialism is, we all disagree on why we should be socialist and what the point of it is, so we tend to graft different extra things onto socialism to try and fulfil that reasoning.

I remember there being a diversity of opinion about this stuff in ye olde leftypol. You're right about this place changing for the worse though, you'll get banned for differing opinions now.

We've always had a couple reasonable people on here with the correct positions (what you call being SWERF/TERF).

False, that's Sarah Wagenknecht.

When I said SWERF, I mean in the sense of supporting the criminalization of sex workers

This is exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about

Things like human trafficking and sex slaves should be handled on their own basis, not lumped all together to be used as a justification to criminalize all sex workers.
This is the dilemma that most workers find themselves in. The only difference is that the work in particular is sex or sex-related.

I think it's readily apparent to many that sex workers often face terrible conditions that should be remedied. The question here is how to remedy it? How do you ensure the safety of these workers? In the long-term it should obviously be abolished along with most forms of work, but we aren't in a communist society right now, and socialist organizations should respond to the actual conditions that workers face. In the case of sex workers it's actually analyzing the material conditions that lead to the sex workers falling into these egregious cases of abuse and extreme exploitation, and then organizing to alter those conditions. Criminalizing sex workers doesn't seem to do that in any way to me.


swerfs are correct and an anti-idpol board isn't going to center trans issues

low quality meta thread

People would literally die over that

I don't know any leftists who want to criminalize sex workers. Not saying they don't exist, but "swerfs" are against Johns, not prostitutes themselves. The only sex workers they criticize are bourgeois "sex workers" who serve to sterilize public perception of sex work. People like high-class escorts aren't necessarily being exploited, but this doesn't really matter when the vast majority of sex workers aren't women who earn six figures sleeping with rich guys. The reality of the situation is much more gruesome.

I support decriminalization in capitalism because its snide to send anyone to a capitalist prison, and I support criminalization in a socialist, because any socialist state shouldn't have punitive justice. Just send them a gulag camp for 2 months max reeducation and corrective labour.

Well, such are the sacrifices… Also, its not really "nofap", I would think if people want to voluntarily and consensually make pornography, it maybe be allowed, its profiting from it that should be banned.