Just got back from Germany; it's pretty uplifting to see a couple of squats, "social centers" or occupations in every town I visited.
These places seem full of lifestylists and posers, but plenty of decent comrades too, and even the posers help out with communal kitchens and shizz.
It made me wonder about what they're doing that we aren't in the US, and also why Germany isn't closer to a workers' utopia with those levels of support. I suspect it's partly because the scene is riddled with COINTELPRO memes like "voting only legitimizes the system!"
Another example, every space was covered with literal IDF propaganda. When I asked about it, I was told the state of Israel's a pretty contentious topic in the German left, and the main cause of splits within groups (and not to mention it any more; it'll only cause trouble).
Sure, Germany has a specific history with certain semitic people, but the levels of support for a literal imperialist settler colonial state were pretty surprising.
Anarchists are retarded. They will put the EU flag on that symbol one day.
Colton Roberts
only german ones bro can we get an f for Rudolph Rocker
Carson Ramirez
Won't nations (not the nation state) still exist tho? Capitalism forces movement, so our current cultural composition would be ideal, and not split families while maintaining historical bonds, and forming new ones? Can't we just have reigonal flags for countries?
Ayden Butler
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Isaiah Thompson
You can add America and UK to places with retarded "anarchists". America is probably the worst, as the UK and Germany does have some based one.
Bentley Powell
It's ideal that socialism remains as obscure as possible.
Landon Allen
ohhh wooooow that's mighty suspicious whoever could be behind this
Landon Hughes
The french.
Camden King
I have it on good authority that Israel is controlled by the Jews.
Nathan Ward
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧Dreyfus🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Hunter Brooks
sounds like an anti semitic canard to me
Ryder Campbell
I'm sure this time a political party won't sell out in order to appeal to more people or just completely ignore their platform once they get elected, this time will be different compared to the dozens of times before.
Michael Thomas
Die Linke has the advantage over Syriza of not being shit.
Zachary Kelly
Slick materialist analysis there m8. I guess there really are no systemic reasons to things, we just need the right people in the right places.
Easton Jones
As opposed to the real material analysis, comparing an actual demsoc party in one of the big three EU countries to a big tent shitshow in a country falling to pieces with the EU having a grip on its neck.
William Turner
No. You can ask questions to people from this or that country without making up stories like that.
Ethan Jenkins
I doubt OP is telling the truth too, who goes to Germany? Nobody.
Jordan Russell
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Hudson Myers
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Aaron James
How are those differences relevant? If anything Syriza should've had more of a chance since their circumstances could've been revolutionary.
Not-voting isn't a tactic, in reality voting or not-voting is just a choice between whether you want to waste your time or not. The point is the philosophy behind voting is one of disempowerment in the delusional hopes that someone else will fix your problems; if you reject that philosophy you will logically not waste your time fucking around with a piece of paper or giving a shit which names are on it. Electorialism isn't a front that can be won, fighting on it wastes resources at the best and serves to strengthen the ruling class at worst.
Jonathan James
Didn't Syriza get cucked by the eternal rose?
Jaxon Howard
The german "far left" consists of left liberals and anarkiddies, that means useless fucks who believe Israel-is-good-and-so-is-Rojava tier retardery.
This thread has more info. The movement you see in the OP is called Antideutsche and is Frankfurr School mossad bullshit. These people HATE palestine with a passion. Useless fucks.
So no Germany has no real communist scene. All we have are anarkiddies.
Justin Hernandez
Are we 100% certain that this isn't false-flag shennanigans, tho?
Carson Jenkins
Not OP but stuff like this is real. In the thread I linked above you have a video of Antifa waving an Israel flag and threatening Muslima BDS supporters, which happened in Frankfurt. These retards really really REALLY love Israel. They even have explicitly pro-Israel groups at the Frankfurt University in positions of power such as the student parliament.
Michael Phillips
Dubs confirm that anarkiddies and left liberals are more harmful to communism than regular proles ever will be. Fuck every anarchist and rose and demsoc retard forever, especially the Zionist ones.
Matthew Reyes
A good example of the Left’s immaturity on that issue is there are leftists who seem to think it’s anti-Semitic to say that America doesn’t control Israel, or even if one does agree that the American Empire runs Israel there are those that insist that the main factor must be the Christian Right rather than the wealthy Jewish elite that generally supports Israel whether they are Right, Center or Center-Left.
James Reyes
A nation has the Jews it deserves. And it would seem the world today is in quite a state with how many kikes are about.
Joshua Gutierrez
The "Christian Right" and the "Wealthy Jewish Elite" are generally just the same group. It's more accurate to see Israel as an extension of American hegemony than one somehow controlling the other. Their intelligence apparatus and military-industrial complexes are so intimately intertwined they might as well be the same entity. What Zig Forumsyps don't undestand is that Israel is actively useful to the American bourgeoisie in that it can do things on their behalf they cannot do themselves. It's a proxy for American military action in the middle east; Can't bomb Iran, or Syria, or Hezbollah because congress won't approve of it? Just use Israel to do it for you. Need to kill Iranian scientists and sabotage it's economy without it linking back to the CIA? Just use the Mossad.
In fact, Israel isn't alone at this; the world abounds with reactionary NATO proxies. Saudi Arabia being another example of them.
We’ve had this discussion many times and I’ve yet to see anyone effectively counter the notion that Israel is an imperialist power in itself and that its interests and those of the United States aren’t always aligned. The US isn’t even its only sugar-daddy the whole imperialist world seems to dote on Israel to a greater or lesser degree.
And that isn’t to say that Israel somehow rules the world but that the Left for ideological reasons refuses to see that Israel maybe just another imperialist power like any other. People are really committed to this idea that the poor Jews don’t really have power they are just puppets of greater gentile powers—so we really have to be careful to watch out for anti-semites and crypto-fascists under the bed.
Granted, it’s a real concern but mainly because those types are fucking idiots rather than somehow on the precipice of taking over and splitting the Left. Just a lot of walking on eggshells to get around the fact that Jewish bourgeois power is just as institutionalized in the West as Christian/gentile bourgeois power.
Nathan Mitchell
Who says US and Israel always want and say the same? Anyone recognizes that even they have some quarrels here and there IMO
Nathan Edwards
fuck them all. social centers are 80% full of anti-germans and the squats are full of egoist anarchists who proudly proclaim that they only care about themselves and don't give a fuck about the working class, class struggle and unions. the remaining 10% consist of feds and influencer people who are on the payroll of neoliberal and israeli/american think tanks. they support mass migration, idpol crap and zionism. or they mindlessly riot and damage stuff. these bourgeois individualist snowflakes are useful idiots for all sorts of neoliberal fuckery and a disgrace to the german worker's movement as well as to the actual antifa of the old days.
in comparison to others not. imperialism is very unpopular among the general population, even right-wing coalitions must take that into account. can change anytime though, if reactionaries manage to assume power. yes. all big unions here are basically yellow unions who are in bed with the bosses. there are some smaller unions though who still have the old spirit.
Isaac Hill
Can you show me any actual evidence asides from your insane rambling that Zionists and Israel support the Federation of Northern Syria and vice versa?
I've spoken to many who are both fully and critically supportive of Northern Syria and I don't know very many at all who are Zionistic
Anti-Deutsche / Anarchists-Zionism is basically an insane German COINTELPRO op that people ended up forgetting was a cointelpro op
Kevin Sanders
Kill yourself or learn how to use a seach engine
Jayden Nelson
The only articles relating to "Israeli-Kurdish Relations" is the Wikipedia article on the Israeli goverment recognising the Soverenigty of Iraqi Kurdistan and little to nothing about Israels stance on R…OJava
Can you show me some evidence Israel is "Supporting" R…OJava?
James Gomez
I think the subtext is that the Kurds have long been an oppressed minority group, who wish for a "homeland" to extend their "ethnic interests", and that this is also what the Jews wished for in a potential Israeli colony. It's not hard to see how they're similar in concept, but I think there is (as of now) definitely a key difference in that the Kurds have been more open to working with other ethnic groups, even inclusive to a degree Westerners may find absurd, such as requiring non-Kurd ethnic quotas in government positions, or so I heard. Meanwhile Israel's like fuck it, let's kill a shitload of Arabs and deny a lot of them basic rights bro! But, I think people may have a sense that we have been here before. Originally Israel had a decent amount of quasi-leftist elements, right? Like the kibbutz and such. It all melted away over time, and why? Because of this seed of ethnic separatism, and willingness to accept capitalist/imperialist influence. I doubt Israel has ever explicitly backed Rohava in any meaningful way, especially given their (if only temporary) willingness to work with Assad and allied groups, but I'm just saying that comparing the ideological standing of Israel and Rohava, for other reasons, is not totally unfounded.
Kurds actually lived there for hundreds if not thousands of years, unlike Zionists.
Isaiah Anderson
lel imagine actually believing this
the usa has no reason to be antagonistic toward Iran other than ZOG Occupied Government usa is a puppet of israel they are literally making BDS illegal in jewsa
Did you mean to respond to me or did you click my post by accident?
Dylan Jackson
I was trying to say that the IWWs based. Sorry for any unnecessary confusion
Angel Torres
I got banned in that thread for pointing out that Antideutsche use the Frankfurt School for their insane theories.
I've personally saw stickers from Antideutsche saying "I am shoving an imperialist settlement in the West Bank into your fascist mouth". They really believe this shit. It's a product of German history, and most leftists from other countries sometimes think I am making shit up or are a false-flagging antisemite because it is so bizzarre.
Also, wanna know a highlight? Thomas Maul, one of the most prominent leaders of the Anti-Germans, has declared the AfD to be the "party of enlightenment due to their ideological critique of Islam", and has said the same for Trump. lmao
Jack Bailey
I find it quite funny cause after they were ready with calling anyone in the left a fascist they started to become one for themselves
Ryder Smith
I also want to make clear that OP isn't making things up, but he propably went into an especially antideutsch quarter. I talked to some Swedish during the Luxemburg demonstration and I was glad that the Antigermans are really the laughing stock of the left, making them international known will deconstruct their hegemony in large parts of the German left and is maybe even the way back to the real issue: class struggle
I'm a Green Anarchist who lives in the germanophone sphere and see myself in the tradition of Marx, Luxemburg and the Critical Theory. As a political incorrect leftist, I'm often confronted with insults such as fascists, nazi, antisemite and so on. This happens especially in Antifa networks and left party youth organizations. One of the main institutions behind the Zionist shift in the germanophone left is Cafe Critique and its head Stephan Grigat who also claims to have the same philosophical ties. Once I was lectured by him in a course called "Philosophy of Labour" which he also used to speak about that antisemitism. I'm an antizionist, not particularly but in terms of anti-imperialism. However, Grigat argues that this is a geopolitical reduction of antisemitism, surpresses the past violence of leftists revolutions and is a result of jealousy of Israel (just like anti-capitalistism in the left). His work exudes anti-islamic sentiments, especially anti-iranian. The accusation of anti-zionism in the left comes together with support for islamism - at least for Grigat. Also an abstract antinationalism doesn't justify anti-zionism for him. He sees the Six-Day War as the cause of uprising antisemitism in the German left but already the KPD represented antizionistic positions in 1933. What I share with his criticism is that the production-fixated and labour-fetishized understanding of society and economy how ML propagates it fosters agitation against "parasitic capital" and people like "Judas Trotzki". Thereby anticapitalism becomes person-orientated and quits is systemic approach. Grigat writes that the GDR was antiisrael for two reasons: being in line with Stalin and gaining international recognition by Arabian and some African states to become a UN member. Ultimately, in his opinion they supported its extinction by providing military aid in the Jom Kippur War in 1973. He goes on that for Israeli victims there is no difference between antisemitic antizionism and history-conscious, emancipatory, universalistic antizionism (funny enough he uses exactly my terminological distinction I said in class). But without providing a real argument he continues by saying that the middle-east conflict cannot be reduced to class-antagonism but is impossible to be solved although Judaism propagates universalistic values. This is why he refers to Abraham Kook's "Dialectic of the Holy and the Profane" in which it is claimed that the state-building secular zionism is a necessary step to the way of salvation which again is ringed in by a religious national state. Grigat points out that the impossibility of normality since antisemitism is a fact causes general mistrust towards the Arab side, even in times of peace. But that the imperial settlement policy founds nowadays leftists antizionism and mistrust in Palestine people is ignored by Grigat. He forgets that the Israel state is an objectified reality of the logic of capital. He implicitly neglects the dynamic of the commodity fetish which consitutes his philosophy. Hence his argument is based on exceptionalism which opposes any egalitarian concept and thereby is alienated from any progressive thought.
Christian Butler
So is it a psy-op?
Oliver Watson
So they are CIA then.
Ryan Murphy
it started as that but then people got memed into thinking it for real
Aaron Morales
dude stop evaluating anti-german "theory", it's a complete waste of time, because there isn't any theory. all the walls of text their figure heads publish are incoherent ramble and merely a cover up for zionist interests and jewish reactionary nationalism/suprematism, otherwise it doesn't make sense at all. anti-germans are lobbyists, nothing more. this grigat guy is actually pretty obvious in that regard, but unlike others of his ilk he has not come out of the closet as a right-winger. perhaps he never will and continues masquerading as sort-of-leftist in order to maintain a foothold for zionism inside leftist circles. elsässer, the bahamas gang and others are now officially on the reactionary far-right though, which is were zionists and jewish reactionaries belong.
Novorossiya is shit nowadays mind as the commies got purged.
Levi Baker
Wut?
Henry Johnson
State of you trying to make this about one big US military base in Syria. Your kind have been soundly destroyed in the last few weeks give it up. Assad and one big US military base in Syria are allies. Definitely. You have no argument. You are a fucking Turk.
You are cancerous as fuck
Luis Morales
This, the guy is a reactionary Islamist.
Easton Jackson
For someone claiming to be a scholar of Judaism, this is some steaming hot take. Judaism is based on exceptionalism, not universalism. So is he pro-GDR or anti-GDR? Because I have seen pro-GDR Anti-Germans (which I think is an absurd position to hold), is he trying to make excuses for the GDR's pro-Palestinian stance? Because the first one makes no sense, considering the GDR only really became opposed to Israel after Stalin's death. The second argument, I mean, people still use that today to declare the UN an antisemitic organisation because most states disagree with Israel.
Juan Butler
Yeah, it is important to remember that Antideutsche are a loud minority within the German left, but a minority nonetheless.
You have to understand that on the German left, you can only have extremes. It's either hyper-zionism and pro-NATO shilling because something something enlightenment, or literal NazBol ramped up to a 100 with pro-Islam, pro-Putin shit. We are schizos.
Lincoln Stewart
Anarkiddie fuck
Idealists like you disgust me. Learn some materialism and learn something about imperialism in the Middle East. Israel&Rojava are the two sides of the same coin.
Charles Myers
Fuck off.
And having visited squats, anarchist infoshops, bookstores, etc. in the UK, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, I can tell you that the support for Israel is a uniquely German thing. Why would "anarkiddies" support a State that is literally oppressing a minority and keeping them in a large prison. States and their prisons is something anarchists are against.
Shows the confirmation bias on this board.
Jeremiah Richardson
It's from a conference held by the group Antiimperialistische Aktion in Chechnya. They do actually support Kadyrov.
antiimperialistische aktion isnt much more than a minority either, at least not with the slogans as per the pictures posted i think
i want to agree in a way and there are definitely regional scenes are leaning more towards one spectrum or the other, which is something that makes me absolutely sick in any way. i personally never was fond of having to "choose sides", otherwise i will be fascist or revisionist or whatever buzzword to either of those spectrums. nonetheless i am talking to many people who hold similar views as myself, finding the toxic culture of non-dialogue abhorrent, refusing to suck dick of either of the classic 70s approaches of either absolute israel worship or having to be ☭TANKIE☭ with nothing inbetween. the really sad thing about all that is that those people are driven away from organising with any group out of fear of being marginalised for having an actual opinion that differs from any """leftist mainstream""". the german left is cancer, especially in the respective regional strongholds
Connor Kelly
In what sense are they even remotely similar?
Ryan Rivera
Regionalism within the is usually a sign for lifestyleism and subculturalism than genuine working class politics. It doesn't that most radical leftists are either students who drop leftism after graduation or grandpas. Sure, these grandpas usually are working class and are active in the unions like the DGB, but people who are one step in the coffin don't really attract folk either.
This so fucking much. The German left is so utterly autistic, calling the other side outright Nazis, using weird, antiquated slogan that havn't been in use since the 60s hippie movement. This is why I was hoping that aufstehen of Wagenknecht would actually be a fresh platform for radical leftists to agitate, as it seem to group people together who don't really subscribe to a specific ideology already. But communists orgs, once again, are either broke as fuck (DKP) or simply lazy/too autistic to actually use these platforms, and instead focus on useless union work like it is the 20s, unions are all cucked in Germany anyway.
I really don't know where to go from here, I mean, I could join some absolute hypertankie group like the KPD with their 20 members, or join some alternative SuccDem shit like DieLinke, but it just seems to hopeless considering how hostile the German media and public opinion usually is towards anything left of the SPD.
Connor Rodriguez
absolutely the case
i wouldnt count on it. anything with lafontaines involvement will be just another attempt to recreate "his" SPD from before 2005, or, much more so even, get back at them
in a country where a sizeable amount of people perceives a conservative christian party with neo liberal elements as "too left" all hope is gone. sometimes i wonder why i am still doing all this nonsense
Justin Moore
One youth center I frequently visit has a kufiya ban and a mossad sticker on its toilet wall. The culture center I visited today has a issue being called antisemitic for some reason right now. The latter provided me with cheap vegan meals during my apprentenceship, their communal kitchen is awesome. The room both centers provide for culture indepent of profit logic and political discussion (even if too idpol for my point of view) is important. (you) should do this stuff in the US. Its no substitute for political engagement, but they can benefit from each other.
Jaxson Brown
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Anthony Hill
hurr durr something something both get us funding.
Levi Green
Who cares?
Landon Clark
Nice falseflag you stupid Zig Forumstard go kys The german is wrong too LMAAOOOOO
Isaac Ward
Wrong German fucking google translate incel poltard, nice try but so better next time it is actually: Israel’s solidaritaet REPORT AND DONT FORGET TO SAGE
nice try you incel cletus
again wrong german
another fucking falseflag
yeah yeah because germans can read hebrew, go kys follow your leader poltard I raped eva von braun
Chase Phillips
BO ANCHOR THIS THREAD IT IS MADE BY POLTARDS they are raiding us raid them back!!!!
Hudson Ross
Nice falseflag, you cant even speak german
Germany deserves it you have to punch every german you see they deserved the bombing every last kid dead hahaha krautniggers
Ryan Wright
Krautnigger literally lying dead in mud But please cope some more you g*rm cuck
Hahahah I rape all germans ahhahaaabahahahah And Russians should have slaughter all of you sub-humans in 1945. I am glad 6 millions krautniggers died, and based harris burned half million.
Today Russia is stronger than ever, capable of literally anihilating your shithole with a press of a button, if it so desires. You country is reliant on RUSSIAN gas & oil, without wiich you could not even make your shitty, overrated cars. Russia is an ethnostate, while krautland is flooded with 60 Autism Level niggers.
Entire EU could be taken by Russia in a week, and krautnigger army today is a fucking joke.
And Russians should have slaughter all of you sub-humans in 1945. I am glad 6 millions krautniggers died, and based harris burned half million.
Today Russia is stronger than ever, capable of literally anihilating your shithole with a press of a button, if it so desires. You country is reliant on RUSSIAN gas & oil, without wiich you could not even make your shitty, overrated cars. Russia is an ethnostate, while krautland is flooded with 60 Autism Level niggers.
Entire EU could be taken by Russia in a week, and krautnigger army today is a fucking joke.
Krautniggers would have died by TENS of millions, had it not been for Russian mercy.
LL was a fucking meme, and was less than 4% of SU production.
Russian economy keeps your muzrat infested shithole alive, you fucktarded krautnigger. Not to mention, Russian can oblitherate your shithole militairly in 5 days.
Nobody moves to Germanistan nowadays, you sub-human.
