Do you think White Supremacy (Defined as legal and economic discrimination against non-whites, specifically blacks, ultimately in favor of whites) exists in the present-day US? Or can black and Latino disproportionate poverty and incarceration, for instance, be explained with other causes? Did White Supremacy originate in order to prevent white proles from uniting with black proles/slaves by bribing whites and has continued into the present day?
Something interesting I've observed is how often people, particularly on the left, talk about how trigger happy cops are with black and brown people, but looking at the statistics, the ethnic distribution of those killed by cops are relatively equal with the ethnic distribution of perpetrators of violent crime. So it seems to me like individual cops are not looking at things through a racial lens when they're deciding to shoot someone.
It's not meant to be bait. I just couldn't think of a better OP image.
These things don't necessarily follow. You're just straight up more likely to get stopped by cops if you're black. I'm not black but I saw this first-hand at this retail job where I used to work (mostly white suburb) where I'd see our black customers – who I knew and were just normal people – get hassled by doughnut-scarfing pigs for no reason outside our store. That was a big wakeup call for me.
I dunno but I live in Texas and white supremacy definitely seems operative here. I think the young people are trying to make it work but black people are terrified of cops and the older generation of whites say all kinds of racist shit behind closed doors to each other.
I know this is most likely bait because this is a red herring referring to an argument made by center-left liberals, not the Left that you're here on Zig Forums to discuss with. The Left makes the argument that police kill too many people in general, including whites, and this is done to maintain the class system. As a law-abiding American, you are more likely to die at the hands of a police officer than you are at the hands of a gang member or terrorist. Meanwhile, police officers have one if the safest jobs in the world, with a death rate comparable to that of gardeners.
we need more white supremacy not less
I'm not saying they absolutely do, I'm saying there seems to be a pretty similar correlation. Do you have statistics showing regular blacks are harassed by the police? Police do disproportionately arrest blacks and blacks also disproportionately commit crime. I'm trying to figure out whether police disproportionately engage with blacks compared to the crime rate.
You can't just cover your eyes and pretend like actual "Seize the means of production" socialists don't focus on race.
Definitely. Mass incarceration and housing discrimination are two major examples (since we're just limiting it to legal and economic discrimination). Perhaps to an extent, but it's mostly due to oppression. It originated before there even was a proletariat, although the phenomenon you're describing, while not the origin of white supremacy, is certainly a beneficiary of it. First of all it's, no socialist should trust statistics from the FBI (which is where I assume you got those stats), nor should they trust the accounts of police officers. Also, crime can be a result of other social ills (which, again, a rise from discrimination).
What I'm asking is if the origin of these inequalities is derived from deliberate racism, not whether they exist. It's always due to oppression, I'm wondering if the oppression is additional due to race. The cop killings is from the Washington Post database while the perpetrators of violent crime stats is from the NVCS. Both of those sources do not involve surveying cops. Right, so I'm asking what are the possible sources of discrimination.
It absolutely does exist. It feels strange to even have to provide evidence for this because it seems self evident, but I'm from a very black city with a long history of racial tension and grew up seeing and experiencing police abuse so I suppose of you're from somewhere without many blacks and a sparser population it's concievable that this is some exaggerated liberal issue. But no, American cops treat all poor people like shit, and they treat blacks even worse. I dont feel like digging up anything more than my own anecdotes right now, sorry about that, but there is plenty of data that supports the phenomena regarding prison slavery/extrajudicial execution of blacks by cops.
Assuming you're not Zig Forums playing ignorant, this is not evidence that police shootings are justified. It is an important bit of data but there are better answers than "this is because blacks are inherently violent whereas whites are less so", which is a massive jump to make and would require much more evidence and qualification. The fact that this is an automatic and seemingly intuitive conclusiom to draw from the data has more to do with it appearing to reaffirm an existing racial caste system than it does with good analytic methodology. A simpler answer, when we don't reduce the social context to "individuals operating in a void", is that blacks are over-represented in violent crime because most blacks are poor and are demonstrably discriminated against through red-lining and police repression, creating an environment of both real pressing material demands being denied (which leads to the drug trade which is indirectly responsible for most of black violence seeing as it is one of the few industries availagle) and severe social alienation and paranoia resulting from that. I am aware that "race realists" think this is a roundabout and insufficient explanation, but I really don't understand how, seeing as "historical and existing poverty and repression of a group that violently keep them at the margins of society leads to violent behavior from that group" is an explanation making far less assumptions than "racial demographics associated with a behavior indicate that that behavior is an essential quality of a given race".
Whether the racism is "deliberate" is irrelevant, people can be unaware of racism/not have personal resentment for blacks and still enforce racist laws and practices.
There is no far left in US politics.
White Supremacy was created after Bacon's Rebellion in which White Slaves joined with Blacks and fought together and then Bacon died.
It's a false identity because White Caps will treat White Proles as dirt. It's kept alive by the USA importing tons of people from other nations and also how the Left in the USA has been infected with deeply triggering and problematic hatred with crap from Black Nationalists, Native American Nationalists, Mexicans with literal Blood and Soil goals, and etc.
The question is why are blacks disproportionately represented in prisons, even beyond their crime rate? It could be racism or it could be something else, I'm trying to figure out the answer. That's not a black-only thing. That's not the argument I was making. My argument is that the reason a cop might decide to shoot someone could have something to do with a victim's connection to violent crime or violent tendencies and not to do with racial bias. I'm not saying those shootings are justified.
Right. My question is whether the laws and practices are deliberately racist.
They aren't because they will fuck both White and Colored.
The reason there is a higher crime rate among Blacks is because of how the CIA fucked with them and how the US Fed Government fucked Blacks with not helping them with trade-craft and etc.
There's a French guy who said something along the lines that the law is equal to everyone, the rich and poor are forbidden to sleep under bridges, panhandle, and etc. You can see who is fucked by that.
All I can tell you is what I've seen with my own eyes. Every black man I've ever talked to about cops tell me stories about getting pulled over all the time. These were middle-class men who were regulars in my store who had kids with them. Another fellow was a college student studying biology. This rarely happens to me – maybe it's because I'm a normie-looking white guy?
I should put out that "White Trash" have been fucked more so by The System than Blacks. Poor Whites were forced to sterilization, and shit like that.
This creates hatred.
Really only Communism will help us all.
Police have discretion when deciding to conduct searches or making arrests or otherwise enforcing the law, because if the law as written was ACTUALLY enforced the white majority would revolt because the laws on the books are fucking insane. Instead, whites get let off with warnings as long as they're cooperative and not in too blatant violation of the law, while Blacks and Hispanics face much stricter applications of the law.
I have no idea how you'd even collect statistics about this, though one clue is looking at statistics about drug use and statistics about drug arrests. White Americans are MORE likely than Black Americans to have used most kinds of illegal drugs, yet Blacks are far more likely to go to prison for drug offenses.
Well if is any indication, probably
The prevalence of white supremacy as an ideology doesn't really matter, as society under capitalism currently operates as if it were. This could easily change, of course, but being a minority and all the cultural trappings that go with it, is generally a signifier of underclass status, hence they're often treated as such by police, employers, etc.
Also, couple this with the prison industrial complex, and you have recipe for disaster. There will always be a group of people that will need to be more disposable than others as long as it exists.
The black community also faced sterilization. The eugenics program in the US didn't just target poor white people.
In what world are poor whites fucked WORSE than poor blacks? I dont think we need some fucking heirarchy of suffering or anything like that but it is retarded to claim that the group that was enslaved and then subject to apartheid and lynching terror has been less fucked than the group that has, as a whole, been complicit in defending slavery and enforcing racist practices. Im not saying white people should be guilty or self deprecating because of this but it really is extreme historical revisionism to claim poor whites had it harder than blacks as an overall group. And wtf are you on about sterilization, that targeted blacks and natives even moreso than it did poor whites.