Education in socialist countries.

Jacob Long
Jacob Long

Does anyone know how highly rated is education in Cuba and how highly rated was education in Soviet Union? I have found info graph that states that according to UNESCO Soviet education system was third best in the world. According to PISA Vietnam and China are both rated highly, but I can't find any information on Cuba or Soviet Union.

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Other urls found in this thread:

jstor.org/stable/1186436
eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/01/09/cuba-has-lung-cancer-vaccine-many-u-s-patients-cant-get-without-breaking-law/1019093001/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CimaVax-EGF
edition.cnn.com/2015/07/01/health/cuba-hiv-mother-child-transmission/index.html
ibe.unesco.org/fileadmin/user_upload/archive/Publications/thinkerspdf/makarene.pdf
intellectualtakeout.org/blog/when-father-modern-american-education-thought-soviet-schools-were-best-example
socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/publications/se/6502/650204.html
smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/soviet-russia-had-a-better-record-of-training-women-in-stem-than-america-does-today-180948141/
stalinsocietygb.wordpress.com/2017/01/19/education-in-the-soviet-union/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Japan
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Russia
russkiymir.ru/en/news/250878/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes,_I_Can
reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2ycco6/how_did_the_quality_of_soviet_education_compare/
englishrussia.com/2010/05/17/life-magazine-1958/4/
humanium.org/en/child-suicide-in-japan-the-leading-cause-of-death-in-children/
departments.bucknell.edu/russian/const/1977toc.html
departments.bucknell.edu/russian/const/1936toc.html
londonprogressivejournal.com/article/view/2185/the-ussr-the-democracy-you-didnt-know-about
youtube.com/watch?v=9PoYzPfguJc
youtube.com/watch?v=Okz2YMW1AwY
revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/PubEdUSSR.htm
revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/anglosov.htm
files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED544054.pdf
theseus.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/152247/Parallel published_Azimbayeva Gulzhan.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Chumak
zigforums.com/thread/2855943/right-politics

Michael Morales
Michael Morales

As bonus
the Japanese and South Koreans carefully studied the soviet education system and planned economy and used that to Great Effect. It's why Japan is a leader in education systems by learning from and maintaining the old efficient and neat stuff of soviet schools.

jstor.org/stable/1186436

Camden King
Camden King

Cuba has a lung cancer vaccine
eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/01/09/cuba-has-lung-cancer-vaccine-many-u-s-patients-cant-get-without-breaking-law/1019093001/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CimaVax-EGF

Xavier Perez
Xavier Perez

Cuba ends mother-to-child HIV transmission
edition.cnn.com/2015/07/01/health/cuba-hiv-mother-child-transmission/index.html

Angel Hill
Angel Hill

In 2018 PISA ranking Estonia was the highest scoring country in Europe. Hong Kong was 2nd, Macau 4th China was 10th. Vietnam 22nd.. Russia 28th.

Isaiah Foster
Isaiah Foster

according to UNESCO Soviet education system was third best in the world
Could I get a source on this?

William Moore
William Moore

Literally the reason why I made the thread

Leo Morris
Leo Morris

just

Samuel Sanders
Samuel Sanders

just some stats on US education and how even there msot funding for universities is federal, so much for free market

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Xavier Jackson
Xavier Jackson

bump

Robert Allen
Robert Allen

Posting an excerpt from a small thing i wrote a while back
The USSR…
Achieved Full Literacy [6]
From a starting point of 38% for men and 12% for women. With School Enrollment raised by 460% [7] And secondary education was a right, funded by the government as long as cumulative grades remained at least at a ‘B’ average. [8]
Subsidized Early Childcare [9]
Fees for pre-school needs did not exceed 2–3% of family income. with 50% of urban and 33% of rural children attending, compared to 10% in the USA over-all.

[6] Mickiewicz, Ruth, Handbook of Soviet Social Science Dam New York: Free Press, 1973.
[7] Central Statistical Board of the USSR, The USSR in Figures for 1978, Moscow Statisika Publishers, 1978.
[8,9] George. Vic and Manning, Nick, Socialism, Social Welfare and the Soviet Union, London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1980.

Free education for all including full higher education (universities and the like). Automatically providing for guaranteed Employment, if you did well in school you would have an endless choice of colleges, and from there, jobs. The 10 grade system was in many ways more efficient than the US 12 grade system. The soviet's concerted effort to bring literacy to the more backwards areas of Russia brought literacy to nearly 100%. In 1983, the United States Commission on Excellence in Education published A Nation at Risk: The Imperative for Education Reform, in which it said that in regards to education, Americans were falling behind Russia. It is self evident that education significantly dropped in the USSR after capitalist reform (starting in 1986).

Before the Revolution, 76% of the people were illiterate, including 88% of the women. Virtually complete illiteracy prevailed among the indigenous populations of Siberia and Soviet Central Asia. Indeed, more than 40 languages had not been reduced to writing at all. Prior to the revolution, only 290,000 Russians possessed any kind of higher education, whereas the 1959 census reported that more than 13 Million citizens had some higher or specialized secondary education, and more than 45 million people had 7-10 years of education….Raising the literacy rate from 24% to 98.5% within the span of a single generation for more than 200 million people would be an achievement in itself if only one language were involved, to say nothing of the severe problems posed by a multilingual society…To detail the massive character of the Soviet educational effort in Central Asia, the Uzbek Republic, which is the most advanced of the Central Asian areas today, as it was in pre-Revolutionary Russia, provides an apt illustration. Before the Revolution, only 2% of the population was literate. There were no native engineers, doctors, or teachers with a higher education. In short, Central Asia was no different in this respect from most of the colonial dependencies of the European powers, and worse off than many.Today, in the Uzbek Republic alone, there are 32 institutions of higher learning, more than 100 technicums, 50 special technical schools, 12 teachers' colleges, and 1400 kindergartens. Nearly 2,500,000 children attend school, and more than 50% of its teachers have had some higher education…The rate of literacy is over 95%. The Republic before the Revolution possessed no public libraries: today there are nearly 5,000. The number of books printed in the Uzbek language in 1913 was 118,000; today it approaches 19 million. When this record is compared with that of Iran, Afghanistan, the Arab countries, the states of Southeast Asia, or even Turkey, all of which were at a comparable or more advanced level of educational attainment in 1914, the achievement is impressive…” - Vernon V. Aspaturian, Modern Political Systems: Europe

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Justin Hughes
Justin Hughes

UNESCO
ibe.unesco.org/fileadmin/user_upload/archive/Publications/thinkerspdf/makarene.pdf
other sources;
intellectualtakeout.org/blog/when-father-modern-american-education-thought-soviet-schools-were-best-example
socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/publications/se/6502/650204.html
smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/soviet-russia-had-a-better-record-of-training-women-in-stem-than-america-does-today-180948141/
stalinsocietygb.wordpress.com/2017/01/19/education-in-the-soviet-union/

IQ tests were not recognized, accepted or used. It was always believed in the USSR that applying standardized and formalized measurements to a human brain is wrong and impossible. People can learn, develop and change, while Autism Level tests impose a sort of a stigma, which (even if not known to people around) actually hurts a person's self-consciousness and self-esteem, and may easily poisons its aspirations. The education system in the USSR was focused on helping every child master the curriculum and to expand their future prospects. It was a teacher's responsibility to find and make use of whatever resources, methodologies or techniques necessary to deliver knowledge and have it settled in a pupil's head. They were authorized to enforce learning, and most children indeed had quite equal opportunities after school (with countless clubs). Schools put all their effort to 'produce' a sufficiently educated individual, who'd be of value to society, and who'd be able to adapt and find his own way and career. That is, the society was the education system's client, and schools were producing a variety of educational 'products', of which 85-90% were exceeding the minimum quality requirements. Today's 'revised' system, based on consumerist values, or rather metrics, is different. The child is now considered the client, and it and its parents have the right to decide what disciplines they do or don't want, what teacher they do or don't like, etc. Schools and colleges merely 'deliver educational services' and have no real authority: if a kid is lazy (and its parents are not concerned), then the education system merely goes idle and lets it sit around through the prom and then merely 'terminates the contract', that is, kicks it out into the world unprepared, useless, unfit, raw material for unemployment and crime.

A lot of Western Classics were translated into Russian, Mark Twain is just one of them. He is a good writer and his books are full of humor, Russians are really into that, in fact USSR was arguably the most reading country in the word. Books translated in the USSR era included quite a diverse collection of authors like Bernard Shaw, H.G. Wells, Steinbeck, Fenimore Cooper (strongly disliked by Mark Twain), Mayne Reid, Edgar Allan Poe, Conan Doyle, Alexander Dumas, Astrid Lingren, Jules Verne, Walter Scott, and Jack London.

Here are some of the photographs throughout the history of USSR and into modern Russia to show just how much Russians were and are into reading books:

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Caleb Bell
Caleb Bell

How good was education on marxist economics in the eastern bloc. With people like leszek kulakowski, khruschev, gorbachev, dubcek, etc. I recon not very good.

Anthony Lee
Anthony Lee

that looks so comfy. it's awful being surrounded by literate illiterates (and being one to some extent).

The best in the world, it should go without saying. No idea how good exactly though.

Jordan Cruz
Jordan Cruz

Highly recommend people ask their questions in the USSR questions general on >>/marx/. You'll recieve very thorough answers.

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Eli Ramirez
Eli Ramirez

I have, however Ismail from /marx/ doesn't know any rankings and he doesn't have unesco report listing Soviet education system as third best in the world.

Lucas Barnes
Lucas Barnes

If it was the best in the world, eastern bloc citizens and rulers wouldnt be lapping up crude propaganda about the virtues of the free market and revisionists would be ideoloigically marginalized.

Isaac Cooper
Isaac Cooper

DO people have so little to say about education?

Joseph Hall
Joseph Hall

According to wiki Russia and other socialist state have(had) good education that they inherited from socialist times, but again, I am unamble to find any ratings of Soviet education system.

Source of picture
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Japan

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Cooper Garcia
Cooper Garcia

In 2014 the Pearson/Economist Intelligence Unit rated Russia's education as the 8th-best in Europe and the 13th-best in the world;[9] Russia's educational attainment was rated as the 21st-highest in the world, and the students' cognitive skills as the 9th-highest.[10]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Russia

In 2015 the OECD ranked Russian students' mathematics and science skills as the 34th-best in the world, between Sweden and Iceland.[11]

In 2016 the US company Bloomberg rated Russia's higher education as the third-best in the world, measuring the percentage of high-school graduates who go on to attend college, the annual science and engineering graduates as a percentage of all college graduates, and science and engineering graduates as a percentage of the labor force.[12]

In 2014 Russia ranked as the 6th most-popular destination for international students.[13]

Joseph Stiglitz, a former chief economist of the World Bank, has stated that one of the good things that Russia inherited from the Soviet era was "a high level of education, especially in technical areas so important for the New Economy".[14

Chase Reed
Chase Reed

Most definitely achievement of socialist times
47 RUSSIAN UNIVERSITIES INCLUDED IN INTERNATIONAL RANKINGS
russkiymir.ru/en/news/250878/

Juan Morales
Juan Morales

Also, not only has Cuba cured mother to child transmission of Hiv and Syphilis, it also has created and exported adult literacy system
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes,_I_Can

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Joshua Campbell
Joshua Campbell

According to one page from r/askhistorian
However in 1983, the United States Commission on Excellence in Education published A Nation at Risk: The Imperative for Education Reform, in which it said that in regards to education, Americans were falling behind Russia. This sense of alarm at the Soviet's successful education program proved to be premature as the Soviet Union dissolved a few years later and the program was in turn restructured.

reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2ycco6/how_did_the_quality_of_soviet_education_compare/

Ayden Lewis
Ayden Lewis

This sense of alarm at the Soviet's successful education program proved to be premature as the Soviet Union dissolved a few years later and the program was in turn restructured.
LOL It was restructured because they no longer had a reason to have intelligent people in their society. Social benefits and welfare in the USA became available as a way of competing with the rightful welfare in the USSR under socialism.

you can see The US change in education already after 1958 with the passage of the National Defense Education Act in 1958 in response to Sputnik.

Prior to that:
englishrussia.com/2010/05/17/life-magazine-1958/4/

Samuel Gray
Samuel Gray

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Owen Richardson
Owen Richardson

many people blame the school systems in japan for the high suicide rate
humanium.org/en/child-suicide-in-japan-the-leading-cause-of-death-in-children/
also a syestem like is very hierarchical by its nature

Carter Young
Carter Young

Eh, overwork is cultural think in Asia, also common in Korea,China and now Vietnam, but overall I agree that Cuban model of small classes and education aimed at child rather than memory is better.

Henry Gray
Henry Gray

bump

Ryan Murphy
Ryan Murphy

there is no question that soviets got stuff done but to me soviets always looked more like fascists than like socialists
seriously soviet society is much better described in giovanni gentile and karl schmidt than it is by marx, stalin essentially just replaced the tsar and made some cosmetic flag and name changes to things

same with best korea, utterly stratified authoritarian ethno state

Thomas Butler
Thomas Butler

implying western lies about North Korea, Stalin and Soviet Union are true
Neck yourself or it will be done for you.

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Oliver Brown
Oliver Brown

Did you just come from r/socialism or something?
Stop reading Montefiore and other retards like him.

The USSR was not democratic in the traditional sense, because democracy in the West seems to mean "Mob Rule" (regardless of what our politicians may say).

The USSR was a polity of worker soviets, which started on a local level, and built up to the federal government. It is a Cooperative Federalist system in that sense. No soviet leaders until Yeltsin were appointed power based on bloodline, political position or that kind of tripe, even Stalin was elected. If you just look at the Soviet Union's honored constitution, you can clearly see the evidence.

Quote: "Article 36. The Supreme Soviet of the U.S.S.R. is elected for a term of four years."

You can argue semantics but that is individual and not systemic. Farming Co-Ops and Industrial centers were given basal supervision and otherwise maintained themselves, giving only reports to the central government so as to make decisions and accumulate votes for them.

Free Speech and other rights are all in both of the constitutions of the USSR.
departments.bucknell.edu/russian/const/1977toc.html
departments.bucknell.edu/russian/const/1936toc.html
londonprogressivejournal.com/article/view/2185/the-ussr-the-democracy-you-didnt-know-about

No it was not a perfect system, but as I pointed out in the posts I linked, it provides no fewer rights than the USA if not more, and to be judge on double-standards of how it wasn't perfect (when the USA is very far from perfect itself) is just a nit-pick that ignores the good points and emphasizes the bad.

I suggest reading
- Stephen Kotkin - Magnetic Mountain (good overview of the party/state tensions during industrialization, has a big section of the later purges, policing, the NKVD etc.)
- J. Arch Getty - The Origins of the Great Purge (very much about structures, a bit outdated and contested, but I think a good overview of the administrative purges and what local party politics could be like. The later book The Road to Terror with Getty and Naumov is better in terms of the origins of the terror etc… but less specific about local power politics.)
- Sheila Fitzpatrick - Everyday Stalinism (this is more so about what it was like to live in the era than about structures and such but does a good job of explaining the role of the party in everyday life and how people felt about it all)

If you don't feel like reading I suggest you listen to these videos instead
youtube.com/watch?v=9PoYzPfguJc
youtube.com/watch?v=Okz2YMW1AwY

Also the pdf linked is a detailed over-view of the USSR in 1937 and is a critical but fair appraisal of its system.

Carter Myers
Carter Myers

just because it was the best, doesn't mean it was as good as it should have been

Charles Sullivan
Charles Sullivan

UNESCO has no obligation to tell the truth, they get no punishment for lying.
Journalism is a profession as much as WWE is fighting.

Hunter Foster
Hunter Foster

I think that's rubbish, It's more likely the actual capitalist existence and the extreme escapism of slice-of-life anime (where guys get girls all the time) that causes them.

Wyatt Clark
Wyatt Clark

revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/PubEdUSSR.htm
revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/anglosov.htm
files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED544054.pdf
theseus.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/152247/Parallel published_Azimbayeva Gulzhan.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Jordan Harris
Jordan Harris

learning

Easton Rogers
Easton Rogers

I'm pretty sure UNESCO wouldn't be biased in favor of the USSR though.

Sebastian Scott
Sebastian Scott

Yeah, when they publish information favorable to us, or someone puts info favorable to "his enemies", you can give it a little bit more trust.
It's not valid to just say "ah, you didn't believe it before and now you do huh?".

Nolan Bennett
Nolan Bennett

Reminder that Japanese cops regularly mislabel murder cases as suicides

Henry Morris
Henry Morris

Same in South Korea

Connor Butler
Connor Butler

bump

Anthony Flores
Anthony Flores

Sorry but Soviet education was shit outside of STEM. And even STEMlords "charged water with magical waves from TV" in the 90s: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Chumak

Soviet education was producing nice cogs for the Machine that couldn't succeed in anything else in life, including building a non-abusive family.

t. born in the USSR

Nathan Lee
Nathan Lee

charged water with magical waves from TV" in the 90
fucking lmao

Brandon Ward
Brandon Ward

So Mr. Soyuza is the Russian Federation's education system better?

Easton Ross
Easton Ross

including building a non-abusive family
<blaming education on the actions of individuals
Also define abusive.
producing nice cogs for the Machine that couldn't succeed in anything else in life

t.born in the ussr
I doubt that, and even think that you're probably, at best, someone born during the 80s/late 70s, hardly an authority of soviet life.

Allan Chumak
<A Russian faith healer
<came to prominence during the perestroika of Gorbachev
thanks for debunking your own argument
Soviet education was shit outside of STEM
I disagree, literature and actual literacy was superior to the USA. Even today the Russian Federation enjoys high literacy rates and understanding of literature due to the people who were educated in the USSR. Meanwhile modern Russian education, imitating the USA, has not provided students with adequate literary or STEM education, leaving them ignorant and oriented at being ignorant speculators of markets, apathetic and unaware of either STEM or culture of any kind.

So to round this off, blow it out your ass.

Christian Garcia
Christian Garcia

Hello I am cuban american. My parents are from cuba and whenever I did math homework my mom would shit all over the American education. She would tell me that they teach math all wrong and she showed me superior cuban methods to math. It is safe to say that Cuba actually had superior math education to america.

Jackson Turner
Jackson Turner

American here who's familiar with the Russian Math school (based on Soviet methods and partly implemented in socialist allies) american math education is generally disjointed unless you're lucky to get a dedicated teacher who knows how to properly carry across the lessons necessary.

Brayden Green
Brayden Green

Agreed algebra 1 and 2 should had never been difficult for any child. Think about it. It's just formulas you plug in numbers into the variables and follow a process to get the results. It's suppose to be simple.

Nathan Williams
Nathan Williams

chinese here chinese education is the best ever believe me i have the highest i.q ever thanks to beautiful socialist education

Alexander Morales
Alexander Morales

s u p E R I o r
c u b a n
m E t h o d s
jajajaja pinche merengue

Levi Young
Levi Young

not cuban chinese but imma let you finish just gonna say cuban education is the best education okay thank you

Hudson Davis
Hudson Davis

zigforums.com/thread/2855943/right-politics

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