I am new to the left and have a vague understanding on orthodox Marxism.
But everything that happened after 1940 seems confused for me.
What exactly is Postmodernism and the Frankfurt school. How do they relate to each other? And what is the role of Freud in this? Why do many self-described Marxists have such an interest in Freud, someone who doesn't seem to be based on material reality at all.
Hey dude see you just dropped in from the zizek Peterson debate frickin epic lol anyway literally Google "cultural Marxism debunked" and watch all those videos you used to refuse to cuz the cool thing back then was being an edgy right winger but now the cool thing is being an edgy left winger amirite fellas xD
This post has nothing to do with cultural marxism. I simply want to better understand how Postmodernism and the Frankfurt school relate to Marxism. And how those three things somehow relate to Freud. Speaking of Zizek, he seems really into Freud. That's all.
I literally have no idea what you're trying to imply, stop taking space in my thread. The debate attracted me here, but I am not here to start shit. Unless you're going to be helpful, go away.
At least you admit you lied you trendhopping faggot
Zig Forums damage control
lied about what? your tinfoil ass is not contributing at all.
Yeah I'm/pol/ cuz I don't want this board to be infested by a bunch of retards whose version of leftism is going to be never actually reading Marx and just quoting zizek while also misunderstanding him to pretend they're smart now that their stupid centrist daddy has been exposed as a charlatan and they're realizing the next cool thing that will get them attention will be to shift from "I'm right wing but cool" to "haha yeah im left wing but not an sjw" for clout and social capital til the world ends so they can satisfy their retarded fractured wormlike egos
found a Fredian How is Freud materialist and why does it belong on Zig Forums?
So you are/pol/
ah ok no one brings up but Zig Forums but you you are a shit-poster from Zig Forums.
and why won't these new leftists learn? some years ago I had not read Marx either and I was just a Stirner memelord
the frankfurt school is just a right wing scapegoat
just read them if you want to find out what they were talkin about
ok now I see what you meant. And why that other guy was angry.
It was actually Critical theory that I was curious about. I don't understand the difference between Critical theory and Postermodernism vs Marxism.
The Frankfurt school is (generally) not postmodernist. Post-modernism was born more out of Nietzsche ironically enough than Marx. In regards to the school itself, its mostly hit or miss depending on the theorist. Adorno is definitely the most "conservative" of the group, being mostly known for his critique of the culture industry and dislike for consumer culture in general also Jazz and fun. Funnily enough, I've noticed reactionaries on /lit/ picking him up for exactly this reason. They read him in their own way, and mostly ignore him being a Marxist, but its interesting to see how reactionaries on /lit/ differ from those on Zig Forums.
The School of Life in their Adorno video also ignore the fact that he was a marxist.
Why do they bother if they aren't going to abolish capitalism?
They we're generally against capitalism, but most were anti-Bolshevik. So their work was for a large part observational/theoretical with most just trying to get their criticisms/analyses out their so a "new" movement could take hold utilizing them or to just spread consciousness about the subject. Yes, I know, not very good on the praxis
I'm talking about paleocons and other reactionaries reading Marxist literature. Why bother?
If we're talking about /lit/ reactionaries? Mostly to reinforce their own beliefs by stating that, for example, "Adorno was right but his solutions were wrong because only (insert set ideology) can fix these cultural issues/move society forward/etc."
this is literal Zig Forums tier.Iif you're really this uninformed about the frankfurt school you just shouldn't be posting
Nice try, Shlomo. Continue sorting your pennies by year.
I don't like adorno or the Frankfurt school but they 100 percent were arguing that capitalism makes culture decadent and stupid (which is ironically an argument many fascists who are trying to win over class conscious workers often use) not that western culture should be made decadent and stupid so teh jewz can take over.
Adorno wrote a fucking essay where he accused jazz of being innately authoritarian and thought the antiwar movement in the 60s was just rich college kids being sold the experience of revolution without actually having to do revolution (which he was partially correct about) which if some nerd like MillenialWoes could say and you would probably agree wholeheartedly
tfw New Left kids harassed Adorno for being a "reactionary Stalinist" yet retards insist there's a continuity between the Frankfurt School and the New Left
I hate jazz and how capitalism degrades culture down to mere products. Critique of modernity(including marxism) in wake of post modern condition that society found itself. Grew out of poststructuralist movement in French Academia in 60s. Read Lacan
Postmodernism, what's called cultural marxism, etc. are literally just liberalism. That's the whole secret: the reason why people who claim to be leftists are so quick to say "hurr durr conspiracy alt-right blurff read more" is because they are unwittingly running cover for the fact that the main mission of western academe in the mid-to-late twentieth century was to backpedal actual Marxism into a faux-radical posturing that never threatens entrenched interests. That students don't immediately pick up on this is proof that college doesn't foster critical thinking whatsoever. A bunch of teens get to feel like big dick intellectuals because they think they've cracked the code of why "non-intersectional vulgar marxist workerism" is bad when in reality they're doing the bidding of the system. Most of the intellectuals who became well-known from the sixties to the eighties came from bourgeois families and had no material reason to support actual leftism, so they easily slotted into being thinly-veiled apologists for existing elites. Obfuscation and semantic games allow their texts to be interpreted as radical even though their only real prescriptions are more hyper-individualism, empty transgression, and public self-flagellation. Don't overthink power dynamics. Capital does not fund its own enemies, especially in institutions as important to the system as the universities.
Marcuse is the father of the New Left, no?
in practice yes
They relate by references that are frequent, but vague. Their position can be summed up by:
Typically Grad and PhD students in Democrat Cops of America basically become cliques where they all hang out with each other and ignore working class members, except at official functions.
Are they critical theory students or postmodern students?
Why are you such an asshole
So the link between Frankfurt School and postmodernism is that they're both "critical theory", which is basically just anything that follows the broadest possible legacy of Marx in the sense of "theory should be applied as a critique of society and shouldnt pretend to exist in a void." So there is the link there but that's about where it ends in terms of postmodernism. But postmodernism was preceded by the Frankfurt School, which was actually primarily pre-WW2 in the interwar period. These were the new Marxists, and they were very much Marxist, but sought to apply Marxist critiques to culture as well. Benjamin and Adorno are the two main guys you'll hear about. Contrary entirely to Zig Forums memes both were concerned largely with the degredation of culture caused by capitalism, especially mass production and the culture industry. They were however very influential in the creation of postmodernism in the sense that people like Foucault, Derrida, etc took the basic format of using theory to critique society but also took the Existentialist and Nietzschean influences, which led them to reject the Marxist baseline of the Frankfurt School as meta-narratives and historically contingent moral formations too caught up in their own teleology to critique things soberly.
As for psychoanalysis, it's a bit like asking why late 19th to early 20th century philosophers were so into Darwinism. Even if Freud himself was very questionable, the conception of the unconscious and repression as determining factors was easily extrapolated into politics in a way that helps understand mass psychology, from a Marxist perspective or otherwise.
It’s confused me how right-wingers managed to miss the point of that scene.
That Joi was just a soulless corporate product following its programming whose actions the protagonist put way more meaning into than it actually had (in much the same way that he inflated his own importance). So, to solidify his position as just another replicant, the “woman’s intuition” scene where where Joi “guesses” that his name must have been “Joe” is reversed when it turns out that “Joe” is just a nickname the Joi program would give to male passersby in its advertisement routine. Then Joi gets back on her billboard next to the tag line “Everything you want to hear!”. He isn’t “Joe”, he’s KD6-3.7, a standard replicant, and Joi was just a program.