Postmodernism vs Frankfurt School

Blake White
Blake White

I am new to the left and have a vague understanding on orthodox Marxism.

But everything that happened after 1940 seems confused for me.

What exactly is Postmodernism and the Frankfurt school. How do they relate to each other?
And what is the role of Freud in this? Why do many self-described Marxists have such an interest in Freud, someone who doesn't seem to be based on material reality at all.

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youtube.com/watch?v=zmYegIGhwtc
youtube.com/watch?v=U4hS5NSzPxw
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Joshua Diaz
Joshua Diaz

hey,guys I get Marxism but why is my stupid conspiracy theory regarding it wrong lol
Hey dude see you just dropped in from the zizek Peterson debate frickin epic lol anyway literally Google "cultural Marxism debunked" and watch all those videos you used to refuse to cuz the cool thing back then was being an edgy right winger but now the cool thing is being an edgy left winger amirite fellas xD

Cameron Walker
Cameron Walker

This post has nothing to do with cultural marxism.
I simply want to better understand how Postmodernism and the Frankfurt school relate to Marxism.
And how those three things somehow relate to Freud.
Speaking of Zizek, he seems really into Freud.
That's all.

William Roberts
William Roberts

I know I literally asked about postmodernism and the Frankfurt school on the night where a debate between a a thinker who pushes cultural Marxism and one who is usually described as postmodern came up and so did both postmodernism and cultural Marxism but I swear my post which contains references to 2/3 of those things has nothing to do with it haha
Fuck off

Jonathan Perez
Jonathan Perez

I literally have no idea what you're trying to imply, stop taking space in my thread.
The debate attracted me here, but I am not here to start shit.
Unless you're going to be helpful, go away.

Evan Russell
Evan Russell

At least you admit you lied you trendhopping faggot

Christopher Jackson
Christopher Jackson

/pol/ damage control

Luke Wood
Luke Wood

lied about what?
your tinfoil ass is not contributing at all.

Jose Price
Jose Price

Yeah I'm/pol/ cuz I don't want this board to be infested by a bunch of retards whose version of leftism is going to be never actually reading Marx and just quoting zizek while also misunderstanding him to pretend they're smart now that their stupid centrist daddy has been exposed as a charlatan and they're realizing the next cool thing that will get them attention will be to shift from "I'm right wing but cool" to "haha yeah im left wing but not an sjw" for clout and social capital til the world ends so they can satisfy their retarded fractured wormlike egos

Juan Garcia
Juan Garcia

fractured wormlike egos
found a Fredian
How is Freud materialist and why does it belong on Zig Forums?

Blake Rodriguez
Blake Rodriguez

everything that offends me is an evil Jewish conspiracy
So you are/pol/

Isaac White
Isaac White

ah ok
no one brings up but /pol/ but you
you are a shit-poster from /pol/.

Brandon Cooper
Brandon Cooper

a bunch of retards whose version of leftism is going to be never actually reading Marx and just quoting zizek
and why won't these new leftists learn? some years ago I had not read Marx either and I was just a Stirner memelord

Hunter Gonzalez
Hunter Gonzalez

the frankfurt school is just a right wing scapegoat

just read them if you want to find out what they were talkin about

Gabriel Foster
Gabriel Foster

ok now I see what you meant.
And why that other guy was angry.

It was actually Critical theory that I was curious about.
I don't understand the difference between Critical theory and Postermodernism vs Marxism.

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Andrew Wood
Andrew Wood

just read them tbh
get rid of whatever previous notions of such terms you had first and then actually read them, most of the easily accesible info is just right wing propaganda

David Jenkins
David Jenkins

cultural marxism and the frankfurt school
<doesn't know about the congress for cultural freedom

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Oliver Turner
Oliver Turner

Here’s a brief introduction.
youtube.com/watch?v=-pZH1LGZJ4Q
youtube.com/watch?v=29bzZad6n_c
Please ignore the shiteads in this tread.

Angel Bailey
Angel Bailey

You aren’t going to win people over by telling people to read 500 page books. Give people brief video introductions first so they can grasp the basic ideas is a good way to start.

Adrian Morales
Adrian Morales

and this one to
youtube.com/watch?v=YzeYKPLgRtA

Elijah Flores
Elijah Flores

the frankfurt school was liberals trying to save capitalism by bringing in shitty identitarian struggles to alienate the masses from class struggle.

Nathaniel Hernandez
Nathaniel Hernandez

Read adorno.

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Levi Butler
Levi Butler

critiquing capitalist culture but not following through with its overthrow

Robert Gutierrez
Robert Gutierrez

The Frankfurt school is (generally) not postmodernist. Post-modernism was born more out of Nietzsche ironically enough than Marx. In regards to the school itself, its mostly hit or miss depending on the theorist. Adorno is definitely the most "conservative" of the group, being mostly known for his critique of the culture industry and dislike for consumer culture in general also Jazz and fun. Funnily enough, I've noticed reactionaries on /lit/ picking him up for exactly this reason. They read him in their own way, and mostly ignore him being a Marxist, but its interesting to see how reactionaries on /lit/ differ from those on /pol/.

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Jason Jackson
Jason Jackson

Post those screenshots adressing the frankfurt school and cultural marxism

Leo Howard
Leo Howard

What a beautiful hobbit.

Ryder Peterson
Ryder Peterson

I really wish i could answer all your doubts in one post but it's simply not possible. Please forgive the board's hostility the debate did put everyone on high gear.
For now i think the best you can do is watch those 3 videos. They are long but they are good and will satisfy your needs.
FOCUS ON THE SCOND VIDEO.
youtube.com/watch?v=zmYegIGhwtc
youtube.com/watch?v=U4hS5NSzPxw
youtube.com/watch?v=OsfKrNLIwhM

John Martinez
John Martinez

The School of Life in their Adorno video also ignore the fact that he was a marxist.

Adam Rogers
Adam Rogers

Why do they bother if they aren't going to abolish capitalism?

Parker Hughes
Parker Hughes

they aren't going to abolish capitalism?
They we're generally against capitalism, but most were anti-Bolshevik. So their work was for a large part observational/theoretical with most just trying to get their criticisms/analyses out their so a "new" movement could take hold utilizing them or to just spread consciousness about the subject.
Yes, I know, not very good on the praxis

Gavin Price
Gavin Price

I'm talking about paleocons and other reactionaries reading Marxist literature. Why bother?

Communists are actually harem anime protagonists and socialists(childhood friends), nationalists(yanderes), monarchists(trying to be big sister and are clearly into incest), paleocons/religious(kuuderes), and anarchists (tsunderes) and they all hate liberals (the rivals)
it's called Harem Theory

Dominic Lewis
Dominic Lewis

I'm talking about paleocons and other reactionaries reading Marxist literature.
If we're talking about /lit/ reactionaries? Mostly to reinforce their own beliefs by stating that, for example, "Adorno was right but his solutions were wrong because only (insert set ideology) can fix these cultural issues/move society forward/etc."

Logan Cox
Logan Cox

this is literal /pol/ tier.Iif you're really this uninformed about the frankfurt school you just shouldn't be posting

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Joseph Baker
Joseph Baker

Critical Theory and Postmodernism are indistinguishable.

Asher Parker
Asher Parker

Start arguing any time.

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Kayden Bailey
Kayden Bailey

I'm going to pretend that subverting white countries is actually some big brain critique of capitalism rather than just a subversion of white countries.
Nice try, Shlomo. Continue sorting your pennies by year.

Adrian Gonzalez
Adrian Gonzalez

2870274
I don't like adorno or the Frankfurt school but they 100 percent were arguing that capitalism makes culture decadent and stupid (which is ironically an argument many fascists who are trying to win over class conscious workers often use) not that western culture should be made decadent and stupid so teh jewz can take over.

Adorno wrote a fucking essay where he accused jazz of being innately authoritarian and thought the antiwar movement in the 60s was just rich college kids being sold the experience of revolution without actually having to do revolution (which he was partially correct about) which if some nerd like MillenialWoes could say and you would probably agree wholeheartedly

Carter Miller
Carter Miller

tfw New Left kids harassed Adorno for being a "reactionary Stalinist" yet retards insist there's a continuity between the Frankfurt School and the New Left

Wrong.

Lincoln Gray
Lincoln Gray

Frankfurt School
I hate jazz and how capitalism degrades culture down to mere products.
Postmodernism
Critique of modernity(including marxism) in wake of post modern condition that society found itself. Grew out of poststructuralist movement in French Academia in 60s.
And what is the role of Freud in this? Why do many self-described Marxists have such an interest in Freud, someone who doesn't seem to be based on material reality at all.
Read Lacan

Ryan Watson
Ryan Watson

Postmodernism, what's called cultural marxism, etc. are literally just liberalism. That's the whole secret: the reason why people who claim to be leftists are so quick to say "hurr durr conspiracy alt-right blurff read more" is because they are unwittingly running cover for the fact that the main mission of western academe in the mid-to-late twentieth century was to backpedal actual Marxism into a faux-radical posturing that never threatens entrenched interests. That students don't immediately pick up on this is proof that college doesn't foster critical thinking whatsoever. A bunch of teens get to feel like big dick intellectuals because they think they've cracked the code of why "non-intersectional vulgar marxist workerism" is bad when in reality they're doing the bidding of the system.
Most of the intellectuals who became well-known from the sixties to the eighties came from bourgeois families and had no material reason to support actual leftism, so they easily slotted into being thinly-veiled apologists for existing elites. Obfuscation and semantic games allow their texts to be interpreted as radical even though their only real prescriptions are more hyper-individualism, empty transgression, and public self-flagellation.
Don't overthink power dynamics. Capital does not fund its own enemies, especially in institutions as important to the system as the universities.

Blake Myers
Blake Myers

Marcuse is the father of the New Left, no?

Christopher Morales
Christopher Morales

in practice yes

Mason Gomez
Mason Gomez

I simply want to better understand how Postmodernism and the Frankfurt school relate to Marxism.
They relate by references that are frequent, but vague. Their position can be summed up by:
<capitalism is when I'm very sad :(
What you can find published in texts from the 60s and 70s is not proportional representation of society at large. Your random worker didn't own a printing press. The published shit is not the result of a supertight conspiracy of Jews or what have you, but unsurprisingly it tends to represent views congenial to wealthy people. The Frankfurt school is no different in that, they didn't go out of their way to recruit people employed by Aldi or VW. Academic "left" wankery is a highly self-referential subculture with very little overlap with working class movements. It's remarkable how removed these people are and how little they do to change that. E.g. when one of these people do an analysis of a protest it is likely based on reading mainstream news about it and then "critically" reflecting on that, not being there yourself, even if it happens literally in the city the author lives in. When a few of these people are in a leftwing org, they immediately team up against the proles (this is something that happens on an instinctive level due to shared body language and so on due to their upbringing; they aren't conscious of it, but in effect it is like a conspiracy).

The Frankfurt school sticks out by just how wanky and self-referential it is, you might call it the gold standard of wank. You might expect that you'd find an analysis of Germany east and west in there, tough luck. Endless wank of authors quoting themselves and a few of other "thinkers" from the same boring city it is!

Ayden White
Ayden White

When a few of these people are in a leftwing org, they immediately team up against the proles (this is something that happens on an instinctive level due to shared body language and so on due to their upbringing; they aren't conscious of it, but in effect it is like a conspiracy).

Typically Grad and PhD students in Democrat Cops of America basically become cliques where they all hang out with each other and ignore working class members, except at official functions.

Henry Morris
Henry Morris

Are they critical theory students or postmodern students?

Jaxson Evans
Jaxson Evans

Why are you such an asshole

So the link between Frankfurt School and postmodernism is that they're both "critical theory", which is basically just anything that follows the broadest possible legacy of Marx in the sense of "theory should be applied as a critique of society and shouldnt pretend to exist in a void." So there is the link there but that's about where it ends in terms of postmodernism. But postmodernism was preceded by the Frankfurt School, which was actually primarily pre-WW2 in the interwar period. These were the new Marxists, and they were very much Marxist, but sought to apply Marxist critiques to culture as well. Benjamin and Adorno are the two main guys you'll hear about. Contrary entirely to /pol/ memes both were concerned largely with the degredation of culture caused by capitalism, especially mass production and the culture industry. They were however very influential in the creation of postmodernism in the sense that people like Foucault, Derrida, etc took the basic format of using theory to critique society but also took the Existentialist and Nietzschean influences, which led them to reject the Marxist baseline of the Frankfurt School as meta-narratives and historically contingent moral formations too caught up in their own teleology to critique things soberly.

As for psychoanalysis, it's a bit like asking why late 19th to early 20th century philosophers were so into Darwinism. Even if Freud himself was very questionable, the conception of the unconscious and repression as determining factors was easily extrapolated into politics in a way that helps understand mass psychology, from a Marxist perspective or otherwise.

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Jeremiah Cruz
Jeremiah Cruz

so many fucking brainlets

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Parker Mitchell
Parker Mitchell

The Frankfurt school and cultural marxism are examples of the dangers of Marxist Revisionism

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Noah Peterson
Noah Peterson

go to gulag

Dominic Gomez
Dominic Gomez

WHERE ARE THE MARXISTS PETERSON

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Cooper Reyes
Cooper Reyes

that is a cia agent

Brody Roberts
Brody Roberts

It’s confused me how right-wingers managed to miss the point of that scene.

That Joi was just a soulless corporate product following its programming whose actions the protagonist put way more meaning into than it actually had (in much the same way that he inflated his own importance). So, to solidify his position as just another replicant, the “woman’s intuition” scene where where Joi “guesses” that his name must have been “Joe” is reversed when it turns out that “Joe” is just a nickname the Joi program would give to male passersby in its advertisement routine. Then Joi gets back on her billboard next to the tag line “Everything you want to hear!”. He isn’t “Joe”, he’s KD6-3.7, a standard replicant, and Joi was just a program.

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Joshua Rodriguez
Joshua Rodriguez

Ignore shitposting flag

Adrian Long
Adrian Long

ONE NAME GIVE ME ONE NAME

William Martin
William Martin

right-wingers are just as soulless as the hologram

Landon Gray
Landon Gray

what is happening here

Owen Johnson
Owen Johnson

communism

Mason Perez
Mason Perez

Wolfgang Pohrt.

Joshua Walker
Joshua Walker

Nietzsche with his oneitis and best friend who would eventually run off with her and cuck him lol

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