May was the end of May,
Lib Dems did rise
Has anything changed?
Is Corbyn under (more) threat?
Previous thread:
/LeftyBritPol/ - Valley of the Starmer of Death edition
Hudson Long
Other urls found in this thread:
twitter.com
theguardian.com
cpbml.org.uk
twitter.com
communist-party.org.uk
youtu.be
theguardian.com
twitter.com
Luke Hernandez
There could be another coup, I've heard rumours from Corbyn's head office that they are expecting one. But with the Cuk's gone it will be harder to pull off even the first stages and Corbyn is still popular with the membership so will still win in the end. Some people I've been talking to actually want there to be another one as it will unite the left of the Labour party and give them more energy to start deselecting Blairites. Personally I'm not surprised and kind of happy with the Eu results since it will push Torys more towards a no-deal Brexit which they will obviously fuck up leading the way to a Labour government without having to follow EU state aid laws.
Thomas Foster
Wake up to all the leadership and the usual suspects (Sarkar, Jones, Mason) calling for a second ref + remain campaign
fucks sake. This is going to be the Iraq moment all over again, when the party just disrespects the electorate (i.e. what should be the base for any socialist party). What happened to "for the many"?
William Sanders
twitter.com
Why is Corbyn so fucking shit
Evan Carter
For the record, Fuck Paul Mason.
Connor Howard
Honestly while I think Corbyn will weather a coup, the more strategic move would be someone else from the hard left to replace him. Corbynism must be shown to outlive Corbyn.
What Labour really needs right now is a left-wing MP that is pro-brexit & isn't a 60-year-old former Miner. I can't name one. That's why we're lowkey fucked.
Ian Sullivan
An angry old miner sounds amazing
Luis Gutierrez
Its more "why is Labour so shit" rather than Corbyn. This EU elections where a sort of mock second-ref with remainers going lib-dem or green and leavers going Brexit. Labour went into these elections with MEP's saying shit like " dont vote for Labour if you voted leave" and every Labour MP going on TV saying that Labour needs to back a second ref. Corbyn is trying to please the pro-remian Labour MPs as well as Labour leave voters and it clearly isn't working. I think he will end of being forced to go down a more pro-remain path even though in practice it means nothing since Labour aren't in charge of Brexit and there isn't the numbers or time to "stop brexit". You also have to remember that Labour and the Torys were not expecting these elections to happen in the first place.
There's a few newer MPs who could do it but the Labour party tends to elected leaders who have at least 2 terms under them. Laura Pidcock is my favourite since she is working class and is sort of pro-leave, Laura Smith is pretty good to.
Juan Myers
Actually Ian Lavery might fit the bill tbh. He isn't that
Both are a shout, they're young, decent speakers, Northern lasses. But yeah, they're both complete newbies to Westminster.
Jose Hall
If we can avoid a GE before Brexit is concluded, Labour will be absolutely fine. The worry is that the Tory wets will bring down the government rather than allow no-deal to happen, and then Corbyn will probably get left holding the bag.
So Jones is FBPE now? I knew the little cunt would fold eventually.
What should he have done to avoid this, galaxy-brain?
Replacing Corbyn is stupid. He's actually quite popular when people actually listen to him (his shitty ratings are purely down to him getting constantly monstered for his left-wing views in the media). The leadership needs stability right now and the voters will end up rewarding that given the chaos in the government. Plus you can't even name a plausible successor so why even think about it?
Ditching Corbyn after 4 years when he hasn't even lost an election will not be good for perceptions of Corbynism.
Nicholas Lewis
You have to be on the right side of history before you can call yourself 'the many'.
Joseph Foster
Pidcock is a qt and I love her accent but she isn't ready to lead.
Jose Ramirez
To be frank, the fact that you can't name a plausible sucessor right now is more worrying than anything.
Regardless, say another Chicken coup is launched and Corbyn wins. What is gained? Nothing, if anything it puts Corbyn in a weaker position. If Corbyn stood down then a hard-left successor followed him then that successor has a far stronger position. You don't win wars by winning defensive seigies, you do it by sallying forth and smashing the oncoming army.
Quitting while you are a head is a thing you know.
Lucas Walker
Corbyn has lost elections.
Aaron Sullivan
(me)
Just saw this article lol.
theguardian.com
There might be a much better selection of potential leaders in a few years' time. And this is surely the worst possible time to have a leadership contest with so much shit going on. Wait until Brexit is over.
The first chicken coup strengthened him.
The media will paint his resignation as a defeat for Corbynism. 'Corbyn jumps before he is pushed' 'The People's Vote campaign welcomes Corbyn resignation' 'Anti-semitism row finally topples Corbyn'
This isn't doing that, this is shooting yourself in the foot.
None that really matter
Ryder Evans
Even calling a 2nd referendum now on a tactical level is too premature tbh. They should wait for a deal to come out and then bang that drum.
Hudson Hall
To be honest if I was Corbyn, I would've probably just yote the fuck out already and just let the neoliberals destroy the country and then raise a successor after all the nonsense is dealt with. The people of the UK are about as fucking retarded as Americans, and will only learn the extent of their stupidity the hard way.
Jonathan Reyes
For starters, we do not have the choice if there is a leadership contest or not if Watson pushes one. Secondly, successors aren't just gonna spring-up from the dirt in the near future. The choice is now or later, the reasoning for now is that it pushes the agenda of Corbynism forward.
When a king destroys his first pretender it makes him powerful. After his second the fact there was one shows that he is weak.
That will happen with a coup anyways.
Your really don't get how politics works do you? Maggie gave-in to Heseltine despite winning because she knew that her position was untenable. Once people are trying to stab you you can just weather it.
Anthony Lopez
impossible but idle suggestion:
left wing 'coup' against corbyn by his appointed successor, coached in very friendly language but handled in a way where everyone sees what they want to see. the left sees a succession, the right sees a coup.
much of the distaste for corbyn is personal. a great deal is also political, of course, but you can clear the personal slate clean if you took such an approach because those against him are so desperate to be rid of him.
not endorsing the suggestion just a thought.
Easton Kelly
what is this monarchist retardation about forts castles battles and kings? what does monarchical metaphors have to do with anything? and no I can name you plenty of times where more than one pretender is killed doesn't mean shit.
Joshua Powell
Wait lmao Sarkar has been at it as well? Bastani has been absolutely rinsing Mason, Watson & Co over this entire thing. That's gonna cause some problems I'd imagine.
Kevin Thomas
Yeah but you're arguing that we should have one anyway, aren't you?
They will be much more credible if they have experience as cabinet ministers under Corbyn as PM.
No it doesn't.
So? We should try to avoid it if possible.
Don't even know what this means. Corbyn's successor will be just as hated and will have just as many people trying to 'stab' them, just because that's what happens to left-wingers. Corbyn's personality is actually unusually well-suited to weathering this stuff and his successor might get it even worse.
It really isn't.
Owen Lewis
is Ally Law /our guy/?
Leo Morgan
Not really, if Watson doesn't push one there shouldn't be one.
Again not really, Corbyn isn't gonna make the whole of a first term, a first term that might not start until 2022. So we are looking at 2024-2025 for a replacement? That's way too fucking late. There is no "good time" to do something, but this is actually a least bad time.
Kayden Carter
This. Character assassination is par for the course for radicals like Corbyn, but his mild-mannered and friendly demeanor defused any of these allegations very effectively. People unironically love to meet him in person. There is no way to assume that getting a new successor will automatically turn off the wave of character assassination
Logan Long
So you mean that if there is a leadership challenge, Corbyn should not stand? Well, leaving aside the issue of getting nominations, a Corbynite candidate would have to deal with the inevitable implication that Corbyn had stepped aside because he had failed and his opponents had valid criticisms of him. That would make it that much harder for them to win and would weaken their leadership even if they did.
Why?
This is an absolutely terrible time. The party is tearing itself apart and there might be a general election around the corner.
Carson Moore
Because fatigue and incumbency syndrome will already be well into its rot.
But the tories are doing exactly the same thing. They are both weak atm, better to take a knife to yourself while your opponent is doing the same.
Henry Mitchell
You are so fucking transparent lmao
Matthew Rivera
Sarkar is doing what the wonks call "triangulating". She supporting a second ref but at the same time saying stuff like "when we're in the EU we have to tell them to fuck off when they try and prevent state aid"
Isaiah Walker
Transparent to the reality that if a coup doesn't happen it doesn't then actually happen?
James Sullivan
"We should get rid of Corbyn to advance Corbynism, but only when Tom Watson thinks we should get rid of him."
Luis Wood
You're really fucking thick if you think that's what I am saying. Like thick as shit.
Alexander Miller
one may even say dummy thick
Camden Sanchez
Keep drooling retard.
James Stewart
Yeah it's every other posters fault for not understanding you, the issue can't be that you've got the communication skills of a markov chain.
Thomas Thomas
It's not even about getting rid of Corbyn at this point. it's about severing labour's ties with the working class to ensure that mass movement socialism won't happen for this generation at least
Easton Powell
Probably a bit more nuanced than that.
Matthew Howard
Re-read and tell me the message in it was clear
Jose Lewis
If Watson doesn't coup Corbyn there won't be a leadership election. Because there isn't a fucking coup. Because no bad man force corbyn to do leadership election thing.
Joshua Miller
Enjoying the Lavery and Mason feud.
Jose King
Mason is pure poison. With friends like these…
Leo Long
In the words of Bevan, "We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down".
Ayden Sullivan
Fuck reddit
Lincoln Howard
Corbyn's Labour is about to have it's Iraq moment by backing a second ref.
Also, why are the melts such as Jones saying that we can't do soft brexit anymore? That seems like the best solution? Why was there a memo today that suddenly it's off the table?
Samuel Hill
Stop going there
Soft Brexit hasn't been on the table for ages. The EU is not going to re-open negotiations so the only deal available is May's deal.
Xavier Wright
Tbf, if/when the Brexit party win Peterborough, talk of a second referendum will be shot through the head.
Ethan Peterson
UK subs are the absolute worst, why torture yourself like that
Carter Cooper
Reddit is filled with M16 and CIA europeany. Ignore the website.
Dylan Allen
Lol are you joking? If Labour lose we are guaranteed a leadership challenge.
James White
Labour can only lose to the brexit party. Losing to that would kill the concept of "If we are more remain we will win". You're not wrong about a leadership challenge, but it will be a kick in the dick for the PV people.
Thought ironically, the BXP may hand Labour the seat, even if labour lose like 6% of the vote the BXP will destroy the tory share so they cannot win.
Elijah Turner
No, because it could be argued that Labour lost because Remain-inclined voters stayed at home or voted Lib Dem. The worse Labour do the greater the pressure for the leadership to cave in on Brexit.
Easton Gutierrez
Gavin Smith
That will not be the take from Peterborough.
More like
Isaac Ramirez
It was the take from the local elections and the EU elections so it 100% will be again this time.
Robert Sanders
Outwardly backing a second referendum probably wouldn't actually bring back that many who abandoned the party for the Lib-Dems. The LD's have established themselves as the 'remain' party, and I wonder if it would even help us long term. There wasn't a correlation between labour losses and remain areas in the Locals, and the European Elections were always acting as a proxy referendum, rather than actually an idea of votes in a General election. The worst element of this is that it shakes confidence in Labour in the scenario of a General election, and many might desert us for the LD's in that case. Though coming out in full force of leaving won't do us good either.
But the worst is over, and backing remain now probably wouldn't earn us that much support. What we truly require is a shakeup of party PR, really. Brexit is killing Labour. Our success in 2017 was a result of policy. We can recreate that, but I pray the issue is over by October.
Samuel Phillips
Lib-Dems are our actual biggest issue in a GE. They deny us a majority.
Owen Sanchez
It's almost as if he only opposes the nation state when it is about to do something that would helpful for a socialist project.
Joseph Rodriguez
If you are one of these annoying fuckers running around using Settlers to push this annoying line that "celts" were "colonized" by normans and saxons and that the "celts" need to overthrow the "normans" and "saxons" in Britain and accusing everyone who doesn't think Cornwall needs national independence is a racist, can you please fuck off and stop LARPing. Thank you.
Hudson Hernandez
t. norman
take your yoke and fuck off.
Carson Price
Mason is fucking cancer and is explicitly rejects the proletariat as the revolutionary subject, like he doesn't just think that things need recentrering because of intraclass developments amongs the Reserve Army of Labour, Lumpen of "Precariat" he just outright doesn't believe that workers are the agent of change. He's not a Leftist at all, he needs to get to fuck.
Brandon Parker
youtu.be
CORNWALL IS NOT ENGLAND
Jose Adams
I didn't even know he was versed in Marxism. He comes across like a typical lib-left Guardianista.
Sebastian Collins
Cornwall is not a country, and hasn't been for 1000 years.
Nathaniel Russell
Kernow you English bastard
Ayden Robinson
So is anyone here in the labour party?
I'm wondering what are the rules on sharing information about motions being passes or proposed at different branches?
I'm convinced the problem with labour internal democracy is that the orgs that were set up to make it better (CLPD, Momentum) simply replicate hierarchical structure, and wondering if an approach where people could view what motions were being proposed at other branches on the local, regional and national level would help.
I want to make this a website. What do you guys think? Please no defeatism :)
Parker Cruz
Yeah the worst thing is that he actually is; like go back 5 years and he wasn't even half as bad as he is now
Jaxson Collins
I think that's above board: considering they tend to be reported pretty rapidly by the mainstream press and labour-adesent microsites (LabourList, SkwarkBox, Red Robin, etc.). So creating an open-source website for motions could be quite interesting, maybe expanding it to explain what they mean etc. Actually quite innovative, well done user.
Fuck, there's a soft-left pressure group called Open Labour that are meant to be all like Hamon-esque techno social democracy, fucking approach them I am sure they'd love it.
And yeah, the CLPD is mostly a social club at this point (Has been for decades tbh), and Momentum's issue is that it should have replicated the DSAm in praxis (basically putting direct action campaigns first) but instead has basically become Progress but for lefties.
Cooper Wilson
Do you think England is a country?
Lincoln Baker
Big brain leftychads voted for the Brexit party
Simple as
Evan Baker
Smooth-brain porky stooges vote for Farage.
Caleb Jones
the idea would be that you could go the board and say look up your local branch and then filter motions in other branches by scale.
My only problem is that I'm a nobody and I don't know how to get people to "buy in".
Would anyone here be interested in working on this together? I can't code, but I'm willing to put money towards hiring someone to do it
Gavin Cooper
Didn't vote for Farage in my constituency.
Even if I did, better him than a pro EU porky. The national bourgeoisie can sometimes be useful.
Nathan Brown
Did Corbyn just time his rise awfully here? It seems like he's about done here. The UK is more or less lost to Neoliberalism and outright fascism.
Kevin Thompson
Then I shan't give you an answer.
Jacob Jenkins
Tyler Anderson
Wales has never been a country. Stay mad you anglo-norman tank.
Isaiah Myers
Wales is a nation because it fits Stalin's definition. Cornwall is not. Might as well say Brigantium is a fucking country.
Dominic Ramirez
Imagine being this cucked to a single man.
Alexander Wilson
Stalin wasn't a random Georgian though. He was the foremost scholar on nationality of the 20th century.
Benjamin Gutierrez
…
Holy shit bruv.
Ethan Powell
Who else is gonna watch the tory leadership election then?
What an absolute farce but should be an entertaining car crash nevertheless
Lucas Powell
CYMRU AM BYTH!
Juan Gomez
How hard would be it for an American to move to the UK? How high level of a job do you need? And how do you get sponsored?
Alexander Hall
Any good smaller or medium sized cities to live in? London seems cool but also way too crowded.
Juan Wilson
Not sure about sponsorship, but Bristol's the place to be right now.
Dominic Hernandez
Josiah Morris
Do these people actually know anything about Campbell? They would surely think twice if they did.
Isaiah Reed
surely an anglo-norman would be the sort of person to deny wales is a country
Eli Rogers
No idea but you should stay in America, most people here don't like Yanks and the country is overcrowded already.
Nicholas Cox
What an absolute melt Mason is. Also in that article he literally says to stop focusing on class and treat politics as a "culture war."
Kayden White
Anyone got any links to articles debunking the "Jeremy Corbyn is anti-semetic" rubbish?
Nathaniel Bell
just ask them where the supposed discrimination is, and watch them flounder
Cooper Cox
shush
Christopher Jackson
Sick of being treated like shit by management at work only to be paid dogshit once a month. Putting in 45 hours per week and it comes out to less than minimum wage. Can we start a revolution already?
Asher Mitchell
going back over the history of events, i'm starting to question my enthusiasm for the obliteration of may's deal in parliament. the odds of some alternative compromise at the 11th hour appear to have vanished, leaving only the LARP options of second referendum or no deal. I find myself de-facto supporting a second vote just to convince the EU to give us even more time, to buy myself more time to think about the matter.
Jeremiah Harris
Fuck off you indecisive cretin. Mays deal is dead and deserves to be buried. Second referendum isn't an option unless Rory Stewart becomes PM. Labour are dead for backing it, they would lose a GE against Boris by a landslide.
Gavin Morgan
so your proposal is?
go on, say it. LARP for me.
Dominic Russell
If you're being paid less than minimum wage then why don't you take your employer to court? What they're doing is illegal.
Caleb Scott
Not who you're replying to, but I once tried to do this. I was making about £4.50/hr cleaning hotel rooms, the only native Brit they employed.
After several conversations with the National Minimum Wage Hotline' where they said "we'll look into it" but nothing happened, I looked into going to court.
It costs a few thousand pounds to take your employer to a tribunal, separate from any lawyers' fees. If you win you get it back, but who has that kind of money lying around while earning less than minimum wage?
It's a catch 22, and it's designed to be that way. Porkies in the Tory party helping porky CEOs boost their profits.
Angel Bennett
My proposal is to leave the EU rather than pussying out because you're scared by the prospect of the capitalist economy taking a hit.