Example ADATS and SOSNA, basically same capability one just trades missile size for 4 extra missiles.
How do you feel about dual-purpose vehicles?
Gavin Young
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Logan Cooper
Logistically speaking they're great. One platform, many uses.
Jaxson Roberts
Sosna aren't dual purpose. It's the replacement of the SA-13 Gopher.
Leo Scott
ADATS was handicapped by its limited usability in bad weather, amazing platform otherwise.
Angel Evans
This, laser guidance (at least with 80s laser tech that's able to be placed on a small platform like the ADATS) is great until it rains.
Jackson Thompson
Su-25 is the perfect example for how multipurpose can be done right.
First of all: the two roles must be similar enough to not completely clash with each other. You can't design an sub machine gun that also works for long range engagements, because both require completely opposite designs.
Secondly the chosen roles should not only not conflict, but be somewhat compatible. One example of this would be weapon systems that are often used in conjunction, like flashbangs and pepper gas grenades. Imagine a grenade with a selector switch, that allows you to change it from a flashbang to a smoke grenade in an instant. Both are often used in the same scenario (smoke as concealment for your assault towards the house, flashbangs inside the house), and if you pack one you may as well want the other too, so there is no harm in bringing the multirole variant over the single purpose one for extra versatility.
Thirdly you must decide which of the two options is the most important. In the case of the Su-25 it was the CAS ability that was chosen as the most important. This is why it doesn't have an internal Radar dish, or internal radar jammers, but fits an internal gun and is armoured to withstand small arms fire.
The SEAD ability of the Su-25 is essentially an optional package that can be bolted on the plane and make it fit a role if required. It's not the best SEAD plane ever, but it works and is better than not having any SEAD at all.
It excels at one and is not bad at the other.
As with anything in the military: it can be done right and it can be done wrong.
Daniel Brown
Eh?
Daniel Jones
Is this a challenge?
Hunter Jenkins
In regards to the URZ and Stoner 63, don't you think it's a bit silly to try and do so much around a single receiver?
I know this autistic shit appeals to you, but why would you want a subgun that converts to an LMG when you are 90% of the way to having two separate systems? Why not just buy a second receiver?
How are you going with your gun smithing course?
Here is a forum you might like: sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com
It's run by that autist Nathaniel Fitch, but is actually pretty good.
Thomas Brooks
What have you got?
Matthew Thomas
Do you really want to frankenstein a gun like that?
You could go with a carbine that has a quick change barrel similar to what the HK433 may become, we will see but instead of just installing barrels with different lengths you could also change the thickness of the barrel to make the LMG version more resistant to overheating, and the carbine more even more lightweight.
But a long range "sniper" rifle can not be an sub machine gun at the same time, no. Never. You go ahead and try, but you can't make a submachine gun also function as a sniper rifle or vice versa.
Lincoln Sullivan
It's called the assault rifle retards
Joshua Cook
Go play some more CoD with the other children.
Isaiah Morgan
I'm a big fan of the concept just based on logistics and cost, have one chassis for APC / IFV and one for MBT / Recovery. Sure none are going to be the absolute best they could be but you are reducing costs so much you can have more of them.
After all quantity has a quality of its own.
Zachary Robinson
They usually have longer effective ranges than you can see with iron sights
They literally replaced sub machine guns you utter retard.
Easton Williams
Considering the whole concept about extending the range of the subgun to replace the turn-bolt, you're not wrong.
Andrew White
Doesn't mean they are "long" range. Assault rifles are intermediate range weapons. Sure, you can hit a target that is 1000 meters away with a G36, I did so myself, but it won't really have a good effect, because it's fucking 5.56 at 1000 meters. Assault rifles are not designed for long range engagements.
But they didn't. The MP5 is still the most popular weapon in police service. Guess what MP stands for: Maschinenpistole, or submachine gun. The MP7 is a PDW, which is just a different class of MP with better penetration ability. Just because the French used their FAMAS assault rifle/carbine to replace all submachine guns (and have not dropped the FAMAS) doesn't mean that all sub machine guns have been replaced by bullpup assault rifles.
Jaxon Lopez
We're talking about SMGs here, lad, 500-600m is long range.
5.56 being shit at long range has nothing to do with it being intermediate, it's because it uses velocity dependent fragmentation-based terminal ballistics rather than tumbling. 5.45x39 or .280 British are better examples, both of which are effective at what is considered long range for an SMG.
But they did.
Yeah, huh, almost as if police have completely different requirements to military and almost all of their engagements are in houses or other populated urban areas where the issue of over-penetration is massive and they never need to shoot outside of 50 yards, hence why they used to almost exclusively use handguns and shotguns.
It's also as if they all carry 9mm handguns too and it's beneficial to them to use weapons of the same calibre, huh, really makes me think.
And SMGs/PCCs are getting replaced with 5.56 rifles in police service anyway.
Mostly limited roles, such as special operations who have similar requirements to cops or vehicle and artillery crews, who would've previously been issued with a handgun anyway. But the Bundeswehr is kind of the exception though, you guys still haven't fully embraced the assault riflepill, despite inventing it.
Not just the French, but the British, US and Russian militaries have all completely replaced their SMGs in standard service with assault rifles in the same manner as the French. Sterlings, M3s and PPS-43s are no longer issued any more.
Mason Bennett
It's secondary function is anti ship, SEAD is tertiary.
Please kill yourself. And it's in no way a submachine gun.
Only a fucking roach would take a statement like "two roles must be similar enough to not completely clash with each other" and take an issue with it. You people have never been satisfied with truth or reality, always got to twist it.
Xavier Gutierrez
Pic related
Jose Ortiz
Nice shifting of goalposts, mate.
Doesn't matter. Nobody was talking about "long range for an SMG", but about "long range" in respect to firearms in general.
Sounds a lot like Stoßtrupps, Sappers, and special forces to me.
Yeah, right? All of those 9mm service pistols the Military uses can share the same ammo with normal sub machine guns.
No. They are not being replaced by 5.56 rifles. They are being replaced by 5.56 carbines. There is a massive difference between a carbine and a rifle. A carbine solves the issue of over-penetration and difficult handling in tight spaces by making the barrel shorter, which reduces muzzle velocity.
The French dropped the FAMAS and are now switching over to HK assault rifles and MPs.
The US special forces use sub guns to this day, because they are much lighter than even a carbine. US vehicle crews and rear guard receive M4 carbines.
The Russians got their AKUs and the pistol caliber derivates thereof.
The only reason the Brits won't stop pretending like their SA80 is a piece of shit they should replace is because they don't want to be dependent on German imports if SHTF, which is a valid argument to make, and I respect that.
Tyler Clark
M4 mil spec is 4 MOA, AK pattern minimum allowable is 6 MOA but it depends on country, most go as low as 4 MOA (they use a non-MOA measurement, ergo its an estimate). There is no assault rifle with sub-MOA accuracy, which is the necessary accuracy to reach the effective range that defines long range engagements. Firearms are judged by their effective range, not the maximum range a bullet travels. Otherwise a shitty 9mm pistol would have a range of 2km because if its fired at a 45 degree angle thats how far the bullet would travel.
You are wrong, and there is a reason everyone in this thread is telling you that.
David Turner
Oh and not to mention, assault rifles aren't submachine guns. The entire premise suggesting assault rifles are "long range" submachine guns is incorrect at its root. Assault rifles are a whole new class of rifle.
Ethan Sanders
Did you forget what happened to British forces in Afghanistan? The L85 didn't have the range to engage the local Hadjis, and after the complaints got far enough up the chain they were issued 7.62mm DMRs. Besides, what sort of faggot doesn't want to talk about the prospect of a weapon that's as effective at 1500m as it is at 1500mm?
Nicholas Evans
Wyatt Lopez
I have seem it so many times I don't even look twice these days, people are retarded.
Christian Carter
In general in regards what? Every gun ever produced? Common civilian guns? Military guns?
Nice me.me
It's still a rifle. The M4 doesn't suddenly stop becoming a rifle because it has a short barrel. "Carbine" is a massive meme term that can mean pretty much anything too, it shouldn't be considered as an actual designation.
And still, SMGs are being replaced.
No there isn't
A barrel that is shorter by a couple inches doesn't reduce the muzzle velocity to the point where there is a significant effect on penetration.
Care to provide a source?
And? Like I said earlier, they have specific mission requirements. The M16/M4 completely replaced the M3 in every other role.
An assault rifle or "carbine" if you want to argue semantics, not an SMG
Only used by the MVD, not issued to any members of the actual Russian military
That doesn't make sense, if SHTF was to occur, we would still be dependent on German imports for new SA80s, the factory that produced them here shut down.
Huh, who would've guessed
Or, alternatively, just look at the LMTCQB16 the Kiwis are adopting with 77 grain ammo. Civvie shooters report between 0.75 and 1.5 MOA using 77 grain ammo in LMTCQB16s.
For an individual shooter maybe, but the MOA of individual rifles doesn't really matter at long range with sectional engagements, but the whole argument of "does 4 MOA matter?" is a moot point anyway, because outside of 3rd world shitter rifles, most rifles have decent accuracy.
Because they're leafs and krauts. And argumentum ad populum doesn't exactly work when you consider two people to be "everyone".
Read my post above. 5.56 and .poopoopee becoming .22 at anything past 100 yards has nothing to do with assault rifles, it's the cartridge. It wasn't that 5.56 was too inaccurate or just dropped out of the sky, it just had no effective terminal ballistics.
We needed a DMR anyway, the whole Russian doctrine of the SVD is kino, and the LSW just wasn't cutting it
Gabriel Bailey
You are missing the next picture with the guy staring down an MP7 with no sights at all to speak of.
Mason Cox
To be fair that thing is in 9mm and its probably got some Valmet magic going on.
Carson Wood
lol, no.
If you want to do anti-ship you need very, very fast and fairly smart missiles that can be launched well outside SAM range. It helps if your launch platform can carry a ton of them or go really fast.