UKRAINIAN GOV’T POSTS PETITION TO TAKE KIEV CAVES LAVRA AWAY FROM UKRAINIAN CHURCH
The negative effects of the Ecumenical Patriarchate’s incursion into Ukrainian Church territory and its declared intentions to grant autocephaly at the request of Ukrainian politicians and schismatics are already being felt.
Now that Constantinople has appointed exarch bishops in Kiev, the Ukrainian government has again raised the issue of taking the Kiev Caves Lavra away from the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church. A petition has been registered and hosted on the website of the Ukrainian Cabinet of Ministers demanding to cancel the transferal of the Kiev Caves Lavra to the free use of the Church, which took place in July, 2013, reports the Union of Orthodox Journalists.
The petition, filed on Monday, demands “the cancelation of order № 519-р of the Ukrainian Cabinet of Ministers on July 11, 2013 on the transfer of 79 buildings and structures of the Holy Dormition-Kiev Caves Lavra (men’s monastery) to the free use of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and to return the buildings and structures to state ownership.”
As of this morning, the petition has gathered 1,695 of the necessary 25,000 signatures.
In April, Ukrainian radicals also called for the state to cancel the 2003 transfer of the Pochaev Lavra to the Church. The various radical groups also continuously harass and intimidate the deputies of the Pochaev city council to prevent it from allocating a plot of land to the Lavra to be used to build housing for the brethren of the monastery.
“Patriarch” Philaret Denisenko of the schismatic “Kiev Patriarchate,” who dreams of becoming the patriarch of a united autocephalous Ukrainian Church, has repeatedly stated that the Kiev Caves and Pochaev Lavras should be transferred to his jurisdiction. He and his nationalist backers claim the canonical Ukrainian Church of the Moscow Patriarchate is a danger to Ukrainian national security.
The Union of Orthodox Journalists also reported on Monday that Philaret had met with the acting director of Kiev Caves Lavra Museum-Reserve Alexander Rudnik, demanding to transfer the 19th building to the “Kiev Patriarchate.” He insisted that it be done soon. orthochristian.com/115736.html
It's understandable, Russian priests were literally blessing weapons used in the war and many Ukrainian priests were kicked out of their own churches.
Joseph Campbell
Why would Ukranian archbishopric be under the Russian archbishopric? Makes no sense. Just shows how politically motivated Orthodoxy is. The first among equal my ass, Russia is obviously more equal than anyone else.
Asher Howard
This to be honest. I get it when you're reluctant to allow other churches but boycotting an independent country you formerly occupied shows how less you care about the faith but more about the power.
Henry Sullivan
Just because they are schism group, or even just because they finally get their autocephaly does not grant them permission to the Kiev Caves. Poroshenko wants to continue to build a Ukrainian national identity, which never really existed, and the best way to do that is to go after the big cultural symbols in Ukraine. There are several saints buried down in the caves, and Moscow would be wise to begin moving those relics out. St Ilya Muromets is probably the prize Poroshenko wants, as he is a folk hero from the Kievan Rus days. Would make a good propaganda piece for the Ukrainian nationalists.
Costantinople do not have the power to grant autocephaly but I understand the Ukrainians. They are at war with Russia, it's obvious they don't want to be under Kyrill since he's best buddy with their enemy Putin.
Dont' blame Constantinople, don't say Bartholomew is a CIA puppet trying to sabotage Russia. Blame what happens when the Church become a political tool of a state, like in Russia. This schism is the fault of politics, not Bartholomew.
Jace Jenkins
A lot can be blamed on Bartholomew. He knows exactly what he is doing. If he did nothing, there would be nothing that Poroshenko & Filaret could do in return. Ever wonder why Bartholomew would welcome a few thousand under his wings at the cost of >100 million splitting off in return? What other patriarchs back Bartholomew? I doubt even the Holy Mountain backs him. orthochristian.com/115685.html
Brayden Carter
He's certainly going above his powers. The point I wanted to make is if the Church of Russia had not gone political best buddy with Putin the Ukrainians would not care about being under Moscow. Bartholomew is making things worse but it's not what started the fire.
Carson Watson
Catholic here, are those Patriarchates akin to the Catholic dioceses, but without a Pope?
Jonathan Wood
Another Catholic here.
Didn't Ukraine merge its church into the Roman fold when it did the unia thing 500 years ago?
Is this why you can't have nice things Ukraine bros?
Jeremiah Brown
Is it time to finish reading pic related? Will this illuminate the situation?
Patriarch Kyrill is not trying to be an "Orthodox Pope". "Moscow is Third Rome" ecclesiology is a thing of the past. However, Moscow (and basically every other church but Constantinople) recognizes the Ecumenical Patriarch as the primate of the Church but does not agree with him that this gives him the power to grant or deny autocephaly for another church at will, or to be universal judge and arbiter of the Church. Many Orthodox disagree that he can be called the "head of the Church" or that he has any actual power besides within his own patriarchate, and the EP's theological justifications for an exalted view of the primacy bothers people as well.
Owen Cooper
Quality post OP
Jordan King
Thank God it is gone. Unfortunately I fear some american converts didn't get the memo.
Eli Martin
Thing is, who or what then decides the autocephaly of a church?
Oliver Cooper
Ukrainians are Russians, one people one church! May the schismatics burn in hell!
Grayson Harris
Yeah ok
Carson Kelly
Boomerism, russiaboo edition.
Nolan Perry
Because they share a common heritage of orthodox slavic people, that is fully historical. Patriarchates are not divided because of just the government of the region. To divide them by mere governamental instituitions is disgusting politicking from probably the worst man to ever sit in Constantinople. He was the first to have never have been a monastery chief in centuries yet he has received honorary doctorates from secular institutions for no work, huge red flag. Watch any interview with him and the pope. Bartholomew deeply envies the pope's popularity among journalists and politicians, that is, non-christians. This man wants to become the pope of Orthodoxy and is a power-hungry secularist. Beralus, Kazakhistan, Mongolia, China, Lithuania and more are all under the MP,and most of them with less autonomy than the Ukranians now, but of course it is disregarded, for now, because the demons that rule the highly masonic EP don't want to scare their puppets about them wanting to fragment all other patriarchates but have the EP due to their "tradition of authority" be the pope de facto.
We are building up to another 1054, another Patriach that got too hungry. And likewise Constantinople stands alone like Rome did. The canonical church has Alexandria, Serbia, Antioch, Jerusalem but the schismatics have the OCA. What a joke!
Justin Powell
Don't be disingenuous. If not even 2 men could go 2 days without bickering imagine 20 billion men for 20 centuries.
Chase Stewart
This church's mother church. Constantinople argues that, as a sort of "mother church of all churches", every proposed autocephaly should be approved by the EP to be completely valid. The Orthodox Church in America's autocephaly was granted by its mother church, the Russian Orthodox Chuch, but the Ecumenical Patriarchate refuses to recognize it for now because it was granted without the EP's decision, and the EP himself thinks the OCA is too young and small to deserve autocephaly yet.
William Flores
Actually Moscow recognizes the autocephaly of the OCA while Constantinople refuses it. There will not be too many that side with Constantinople in this fight.
Carter Gray
Unfortunatelly Kirill proved that he is 100% KGB - 0% Orthodox He is one step from creating his unique Russian religion, i hope Russians wont follow him
Bentley Wood
...
Nolan Morales
The ukrainian wannabe patriarch is also KGB, though.
But then Constantinople has a point since the Russian patriarch was allowed by the Greek one. Not to mention, Ukraine was part of the Greek jurisdiction after the conversion of Kievan Rus' so you could also argue from this point.
