BREAKING: Vatican-China Deal Recognizes Communist Appointed Bishops… I would make a cartoon showing the pope kneeling and offering the keys of the kingdom of heaven and saying, ‘Now, please recognize me as pope,’
China and the Vatican are set to sign a landmark agreement later this month ending a long struggle between Beijing’s Communist rulers and the pope over who chooses the leaders of Catholicism in the world’s most populous country, according to two people familiar with the matter. Reactions to the deal, which gives both sides a say in appointing the church’s bishops in China, are likely to be sharply divided, with some hailing a diplomatic coup by the Vatican that draws China closer to the West and others warning of an important defeat for the principle of religious freedom. The controversial deal would include the first official recognition by Beijing that the pope is the head of the Catholic Church in China. In return, Pope Francis would formally recognize seven excommunicated Chinese bishops who were appointed by the Communist government without Vatican approval.
“It is a baby step by China toward recognizing some of the framework of the Western world,” said Francesco Sisci, an Italian who teaches international relations at China Renmin University in Beijing. “It doesn’t go as far as recognizing what we in the West call religious freedom but it is a degree of religious autonomy.” Others, including some U.S. diplomats, are concerned the pope is conceding a strong influence over church leadership to an avowedly atheist authoritarian regime. “This is a strange step backward on terrain over which the church has fought, not for centuries but millennia,” said Sandro Magister, a Vatican expert who writes for Italy’s L’Espresso magazine. “The church has managed to free itself from control of sovereigns and governments on ecclesiastical matters such as the naming of bishops, but now this achievement is clamorously contradicted by the agreement with China.”
China’s estimated 10 million Catholics are legally supposed to worship only in churches approved by the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association, a state-controlled body not recognized by the Vatican. But many Catholics attend unregistered churches in so-called underground communities led by bishops loyal only to Rome. Beijing is eager for the publicity boost that mending ties with the Vatican would bring, even as the Communist Party prosecutes a systematic campaign to bring Catholicism and all other religions more firmly under its control. A new agreement would allow the pope to veto new nominees for bishops proposed by the Chinese government. Beijing’s major condition for signing has been that the pope recognize the seven Chinese bishops excommunicated by Rome over the years. Critics of the prospective deal have cast it as a capitulation by the Vatican. “I would make a cartoon showing the pope kneeling and offering the keys of the kingdom of heaven and saying, ‘Now, please recognize me as pope,’” Cardinal Joseph Zen, a former bishop of Hong Kong, told an interviewer in March. “The advisers of the pope are giving him advice to renounce his authority.”
And China still doesn't recognize the Eastern Ortho Church as a religion in china, probably because they wont compromise?
Dominic Hill
They literally said it's because they fear russian influence. Which is a bit odd, since Orthodoxy has in history been less intrusive to chinese customs. The papal catholics had a controversy about their rites like praying for the dead. But of course, the above is way less tangible than the Kremlin or the Vatican. But who knows, there is an ongoing sale of autocephaly right now. That might convince Xi.
I hate the chinese language so much.
James Smith
What if one of the communist appointed bishops becomes pope???
Matthew Thompson
What's the difference? There's already a commie Pope
Gabriel Cooper
This is an absolute joke. The state approved church in China is censored and forced to hide inconvenient truth from the people. It willingly hides the full truth of God from the people, pretty much making itself heretical. It will also do whatever the government tells it to do. The government that is actually actively persecuting Christians and encouraging their people to be idolaters of the party and it's rotten communist ideology. I mean they're straight up asking people to throw away pictures of Jesus and replace them with that Winnie the Pooh looking bastard.
The Communist Party and it's State is anti-christian and promoting values incompatible with Christianity. It's unnacceptable for the Church to give in to their demands. It's as if a Pope were to make a deal with the emperor Nero. This anti-christian state must be absolutely denounced and not allowed to spread it's vile influence any more than it already has.
This makes me sad. Especially considering that China could accept exarchs from EP or Antioch ("patriarch of all East"). This is REALLY unfair.
Carter Thompson
Churches have always made concessions to the ruling entities, why do you think no crusades have been called in the last century. Also it's probably not wise to annoy a major economic and military power. The prospects for Catholics and other Christians is better if they accede to their demands for the moment.
Bentley Cooper
Also could be greater ties with western aligned entities and China historically in their struggle against the Russian power.
Compromise, and also Russia is in that sphere. China and Russia might be economic and to a certain extent military allies right now, but within living memory (60s) they nearly went to war with each other. If I were a Chinese leader with a long memory, I certainly wouldn't want any organ that was even vaguely associated with the Russian Orthodox Church anywhere in my country, even if it's just taking precautions rather than it being an outright threat.
Nah, Xi will just wait 15 minutes and then get right back to work. Jorge will get his photo op, though.
Zachary Sanchez
The Communist Party wants to either eliminate Christianity entirely from it's country or make everyone believe in a censored, watered down version that's nothing alike true Christianity. This is the opposite of what the Church wants to achieve, so by giving in to China they would be working against their own goals. The Church is not a country and not a corporation so unlike governments it's in a unique situation where it doesn't have to care about these things.
Henry Reed
Why? China doesn't the force projection to get to the Vatican City and it's not like it's a major trade partner. Do you just say things like this to try to seem smart?
Colton Taylor
Basically China is starting a persecution and want to destroy all non aligned christian churches, first of all those of the anglo-jew type because they are instruments of american influence. The argentinian junta currently ruling the Catholic Church decided to sell off their underground church to the official patriotic church with bishops nominated by the communist party. Non conformist catholics will be forced to recognize the communist bishops, in exchange China will keep this church in formal communion with Rome and will spare them persecutions. I wish I could see Bergoglio's face in 20 years when the persecuted churches will prosper and his selloff will have severely damaged the Catholic church in China instead of helping them.
Mason Diaz
Former Bishop of Hong Kong tear apart the agreement signed by the Vatican. I trust him much more than Bergoglio and friend on this oldyosef.hkdavc.com/?p=1071 The Vatican sold off, it's official
Caleb Mitchell
Well, yeah, but capitulation is ALWAYS the easiest path … just ask the French … BOOYAA-shakalakalakalaka
we gotta focus on the environment and those migrant feetsies.
Luis White
The Vatican is a globalist business empire clothed in a priest's robes. Of course they'll make concessions to keep their foothold on Asia's paper tiger.
Wrong. Would you have said JP2 and other trad priests should have shut up in Eastern Europe, back when Russia was Communist?
True Christians will go underground here. These secular appointments can be made even if the Pope refuses (if he refuses enough candidates, they can just put someone in anyway). So there's a real question of these guys having any validity or authority whatsoever, not to mention the problems with having communists sticking to basic dogma.
John Perez
702407 reply was meant for .
Aaron Cook
If he now recognize the communist appointed Bishops, including one who has a partner and several childs, then it means new underground bishops are no longer nominated or accepted by Rome. Basically and underground bishop who refuse the compromise will be called schismatic by Rome.
If Rome actually follow this pitiful agreement it will have to excommunicate non conformist bishops to protect the communist bishops.
Adrian Johnson
Francis is not pope. He's a winnie the pooh jew.
Matthew Jackson
Crazy world we are living in. I've heard repeatedly that if you're not part of the Roman Catholic Church, then you are by default "not saved" even though the Bible says to simply confess with your mouth and believe in your heart. Why isn't this thread being discussed more??
Xavier Sanchez
It's something that's been gone through over and over again not just here but at large as well, but there's so many points of controversy and only so little time, is what i find. Instead of this duo of "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" and the simple faith it's often manifested in other topics too.
Lincoln Nelson
...
Jack Hughes
I will go against the grain and claim that this is a good thing for the Roman Catholic church. The Chinese are marxists in name only. They constantly ridicule the "white left" (= inane progressives). The USA is peeved because jews lose some of their control on the church. The more control they lose, the better.
Cry more, faggoy. For the people of China, state comes before god. If you do not meddle with China's affair or peddle anti-Communistic propaganda. You are allowed to stay. Else take your church back to US or Israel.
The Communist party wants nothing to do with the Church as long as the Church is not anti-Communist. Since the church has taken an anti-Communist stance (which they could easily not do) they will be eradicated.
Correct.
Thanks.
John Jenkins
Wait, wait, wait… are you saying the Vatican is a political authority rather than a religious one?
