I'd like to apologize in advance for killing another thread to make this one, I just figured the discussion wouldn't gain much traction in a QTDDTOT thread.
What's/christian/'s thoughts on the spiritual state of (obviously) dead soldiers that fought under the Soviets or Nazis? On an individual basis of course there is a lot of variety, what with devout Christians and political diehards fighting side-by-side, and men who were both.
These thoughts were spawned by a lot of recent reading and listening into the war in general, and how the men of both sides were more or less screwed. Germany had the right idea in combating Bolshevism, and the idea that they were anti-Christian seems to largely be false, while the Soviets only relaxed religious freedom a bit to inspire morale in their repressed troops.
Not claiming to be an expert on either the faith or WW2, btw, so let me know if I'm missing out on something important.
God's judgement is beyond our understanding and is always righteous. I have faith in that.
David Mitchell
Imagine all these nietzschean autists facing God. Poor lads.
Christian Williams
It's naive to think the Soviet soldiers were atheists; half of them were believing Orthodox Christians, so they most likely went to heaven. The German/Axis soldiers on the other hand were Catholics/Protestants, so they almost certainly went to hell. A tragic loss of life in the end for all the Russian atheists.
Also, requesting the one painting of a Soviet soldier in the ruins of an Orthodox Church, staring at a fresco of the Theotokos while the light shines in from the top left. People need to realize that WW2 wasn't a fight of Fascism vs Communism, but a Catholic crusade against Orthodoxy, were Orthodoxy won and Catholicism was defeated.
Ryder Harris
You cannot know.
Wow this level of twisting what communism was. I did not know Orthodox were communist mate or that they were in charge of Soviet Russia. I thought you were purged by communists.
Adrian Fisher
Communism wasn't Orthodoxy, but the Russian people are more than half of the Orthodox world population. A destruction of Russia, which Catholic Hitler planned, would've been a destruction of Orthodoxy as well.
You know my friend…I really like Russians and Orthodox christians too. I feel bad for what they suffered in the hands of Bolsheviks. And then out of nowhere Orthodox christians/russians appear spewing this type of bullshit sometimes even glorifying communists.
Mason Collins
Those two anons are pushing it, but it was certainly not as black and white as most Zig Forumstards assume. Hitler wasn't some misunderstood autist trying to fight darkness or whatever other nonsense people peddle, and the Soviets certainly weren't holy defenders of Russia. The Bolshevik leadership contained a vast amount of Jews and that was very problematic, as was the ideology itself. On the other hand, you had autists in Germany pushing neo-Pagan ideas and worshipping the state/military, as did the Soviets. Both are ideologies brought about by modernism and the rise of mass politics along with the mass man. The truth of who was right or wrong is pointless to discuss as it lies somewhere in a grey area. What we can know for sure though is that both sides contained PERSONAL SOULS caught up in a struggle which they may not have asked for. What we can appreciate in any conflict is the seemingly small rays of light shining from individuals trying to do the best in a damned situation (the world itself). The truth always lies in a grey area.
Logan Walker
What bullshit friend? Were not almost all Axis countries CATHOLIC? Isn't Russia ORTHODOX? You can't just call everything you don't like "bullshit".
Bolshevism is not Orthodoxy. I like Russians, I like Orthodoxy. I hate Bolshevism. Why did "Orthodox Russia" - using your terminology - exterminate Ukrainians in Holodomor?
Luke Gray
Are you even Russian? Or just one of those based western converts that blame everything on catholics? Expansion of what you call here "orthodox", what was in fact communism screwed up my country. So thanks for nothing and winnie the pooh off. I would not go off to this rant if you did not start spewing bullshit.
Aiden Campbell
Bolshevism was one of Orthodoxy's worst enemies.
I don't think the Axis were necessarily Catholic either. Not the upper echelons driving it at least. It's just the same crap you can see now at Zig Forums. They worship themselves and are ever on the lookout for European/pagan roots type of stuff. They're no different than those cheesy black metal bands, but probably cleaner appearance.
Jayden Thompson
Secularism has existed for centuries. Most individuals in every "Christian" nation haven't been true Christians since the 19th century. Surveys and other crap don't cut it. You need to look at how nations and people have conducted themselves, not whether they say they attend church once a month or not.
Nobody exterminated Ukrainians. The "Holodomor" was a famine that affected other parts of Russia as well.
Dylan Butler
Hitler didn't wage against Bolshevism, out of the kindness of his heart to save the Russian people, he waged war against Russia in order to destroy Russia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost Bolshevism is bad, certainly, but nowhere near as bad as a German Russia would've been.
Mason Foster
I am no way arguing in favor of Zig Forums. I am just calling out this bullshit. It makes as much sense as me claiming Communism is based upon orthodoxy. Which is obviously not true.
Parker Richardson
Absolutely nobody claimed this ITT. You're just putting words in my mouth because you have no argument.
Daniel Richardson
Stop with this meme. The icon of Stalin was enough. Russia is trying to paint this image that the "Great Patriotic War" was fought by rural soldiers who had an icon of the Theotokos under the red star in their hats and everyone was secretly Orthodox. Including Stalin. Not that there is no truth to it, but your post is pure exaggeration and revisionism.
Isaac Butler
I could believe some of that about average soldiers, but certainly not Stalin. He was an atheist even from an early age, and resented his upbringing in religious education.
Josiah Bell
Who else was it fought by? People don't change their religious views only because some political event happened, and Christians don't stop being Christians because they're persecuted.
Ethan Gomez
Are you prepared to explain why those "secret orthodox" under the red flag went to perpetuate Holodomor before the war has started? I do not blame Orthodox for it. By applying your logic I would Holodomor? millions of Russian christians executed/sent to gulags?
Owen Wood
I could barely even count Stalin as a godless "soldier" or politician. He was a straight up thug and like a mafia boss equivalent before he connected with Lenin (and then Lenin found his skills in this area useful still).
Chase Taylor
What is Romania.png
Michael Stewart
You seriously can't be this dense. I did not claim the Communists are Orthodox, I said that the Russian people are Orthodox, and the Russian Orthodox people were attacked by Catholic Hitler.
Andrew Morgan
Hitler was no Catholic. He worshipped Aryan/Germanic shit. He jammed out to Wagner. Not hymns. Maybe he wasn't on the wonky levels that Himmler was, but they were neo-pagans.
Jaxon Young
And Orthodox people of Ukraine were attacked by Soviet Russia - Orthodox people. And then Soviet Russia annexed all those countries and persecuted Catholics and Orthodox alike - again as you claim Orthodox people. You can't play this game "take good leave bad"
Jonathan Powell
Why do you spout this retarded bullshit? You seriously dislike catholicism that much to invent those lies? Are you even Russian/Slav or just some American?
Cameron Moore
...
Julian King
Nope. He was an atheist privately, but a Catholic publicly, so just like many other Catholics too. youtube.com/watch?v=CcOf94gMs8k
Not any better, I guess. He certainly indulged all of the occultic and pagan stuff though. And more romantic about German history than anything religious (like I said, he loved Wagner. He dreamed of being like some old Aryan hero like Siegfried. None of this has anything to do with Catholicism). And Nazism is rooted in the Thule Society:
Which lies? Hitler was raised a Catholic and he maintained a public image as Catholic. Almost all the countries that attacked Russia were Catholic too (see the nice poster in ), whereas Russia is Orthodox. Those are FACTS.
Jonathan Evans
Soviet union was not orthodox. That is a fact.
John Murphy
Are you autistic? What am I saying, of course you are.
Hunter Lee
Romania also attacked Soviet Union and Romania was Orthodox.
Grayson Allen
The poltical elite wasn't Orthoodx, but the people were.
Bentley Miller
You are retarded. And I seriously doubt you're even Slav.
As i have already stated
Jose Brooks
If you criticize Catholics to this extent, you end up burning yourself. At their heart, they're still Christians… even if you see heresy.
Heresy is not completely screwball paganism. Heresy is error within the same structure that needs to be corrected. Heresy is not crap like Nazism that is way out in left field. That's a completely different religion. Calling out a heretic is for cleaning one's own house. Not casting complete evil on them.
Juan Mitchell
Romania is Orthodox Romania is Orthodox Romania is Orthodox Romania is Orthodox Romania is Orthodox Romania is Orthodox Romania is Orthodox Romania is Orthodox Romania is Orthodox Romania is Orthodox Romania is Orthodox
Colton Miller
Romania was a minor country with a German monarch. It's irrelevant to the point.
Joshua Myers
Not if you claim it was a crusade against orthodoxy you burger
Michael Bailey
Minors countries do whatever they're pressured into doing. They don't matter in the bigger picture. Political pressure > Ideology.
Colton Cooper
It matters if the ideology was primarily against Orthodoxy as you claim. Nice try burger, thanks for playing though
Bentley Ward
I'm not trying to defend the Soviets. They wanted rapid industrialization and some policies they put into place led to some disastrous shit. Not only the Ukraine was affected though. Ukrainians love to portray it as a deliberate attack on them since it provides another reason for their desired independence. Every state is guilty of exaggerating events to lift them into mythical status in an effort to propel the nation forward. Let's not do bad history though. Two seconds of google can show you that it wasn't an isolated famine targeting the Ukraine. Don't fall for propaganda narratives, from any country. This doesn't excuse the loss of life though. Actual loss of life is tragic in any event, but we don't have to tie the propaganda in with it. Politics are a whole new ball game.
Isaiah Torres
Seriously this is as cringy as the icon of Stalin yo.u see on the photos.
Thomas Myers
I'm not going to argue with you if you're stupid to understand that politics can trump ideology sometimes. Why did France fight on the side of Protestantism in the 30 years war?
Hunter Martinez
Which photos? Stop lying you winnie the pooh Catholic.
You're in no way Russian otherwise you would know there are people who meme communists as saints.
Alexander Gutierrez
If you want to classify retarded policy as genocide, then there is a global genocide taking place right now.
John Hill
lol.
Joseph Walker
I'm not saying there was no Orthodox in the USSR, I'm saying painting this as religious is revisionism. And it doesn't even benefit us. The 20th century was so bloody because we tried to justify morality without God. It's best we condemn it like it must be, as an atheist new-man experiment, than try to revision it. Now in the 21st century we have no God and no morality. At least we're a bit more consistent, maybe we go back to being fully consistent one day.
Jaxson Young
Those people aren't Orthodox to begin with. It's just a meme/troll.
Yes. But there was a priest that actually blessed the other icon, according to the moscow times Also: Putin: Communist ideology similar to Christianity, Lenin’s body like saintly relics rt.com/news/415883-putin-communist-ideology-christianity/ I gues Putin is not Orthodox too? is he just memeing around?
Lucas Rogers
First you claim there are no icons, call me a liar, then a source is provided, then you claim muh no photos too retarded/lazy to look up yourself call me an imbecile. I never said R.O.C. approved of it. I said there are people who meme stalin/lenin as a saint. Literally. And you call me a liar.
Kevin Gonzalez
Isn't everything religious? Hasn't God planned everything? Russia is being reborn as an Orthodox country, and many people who seek Christ come to Orthodoxy. Had Russia lost WW2 to Catholic Hitler, this would not be the case.
Ofc Putin isn't Orthodox, he's literally an ex-KGB spy.
Christian Foster
The millions of farm workers leaving? The drought affecting major regions (which the Ukraine was only one of) of Russia? The inefficiency of introducing new mechanized tools for the first time? Awful harvest years? But no, you're right. It was just some elite loonies waltzing in and grabbing crops only from Ukrainians so they could justify their independence down the road.
Tyler Rodriguez
I hope you find peace in your soul my friend. Your hatred towards catholicism does you no good and it distorts your sense of reality as well as distorts your view of history. I respect orthodox christians and wish them well. Even though I am merely an "imbecile winnie the pooh Catholic." Have a nice day.
Brandon Lopez
You ARE a liar because you pretend that there are Orthodox believers who think Stalin was a saint, while in fact it's just some commies meming. Priests bless everything, and they make mistakes.
Robert Edwards
I don't care about you.
Jack Young
You called me a liar for not showing the photos, you did not know about them. I did not lie. Look man I am not going to insult you again - it was wrong for the first time. I hope you see the truth for what it is not what you want it to be.
Austin Johnson
It's not what I meant. I meant that the ideologies of the 20th century were anti-religion. That entire century was a mess due to it.
Benjamin Hall
Ofc I knew about them. Every Orthodox knows about the "saint stalin" meme, but it's just a commie meme and nothing else. Your lies failed papist, and now you're at the end of your wisdom because you're not very smart.
Joseph Robinson
classic sleazebag maneuver, catholics are renowned for it
Ethan Clark
OP here shid
I didn't know I'd start a dumpster fire, but interesting takes all around.
The absolute worst thing about war is that we are making monsters out of others, encouraged to gleefully slaying them to take the so-called 'glory'.
Sebastian Perez
Brothers (Sisters?): Peace!
Can any one of you honestly think either side here defends Nazis or Stalin? I think not. I think you're all Christians and wouldn't wish that kind of hell on the earth. Please tell me if I'm wrong.
Ethan Morgan
TO BE HONEST, there is literally nothing wrong with secret services under military. We have records from the Byzantine Empire until basically everyone now. They just call it "intelligence services" today, like they don't call it propaganda they call it PR. Putin being KGB helped Russia because he had a powerful net that could counterweight the plutocrats who liquidated the economy in the 90's.
Justin Barnes
...
Levi Brown
It literally says "la croisade contre le bolchevisme".
Carter Ramirez
It would not be this tough if there were not "revisionists" trying to claim it all was an attempt to destroy Orthodoxy.
Your ignorance is showing.
Charles Campbell
None of them fought significantly in Russia, apart from POWs who would've starved otherwise. German puppet state.
I realize Catholics are a demographic here, as are Hitler worshippers. My post, being the truth, hits out at both those demographics, so that's why the number of negative reactions here. Keep them coming boys.
Molotov cocktails are not an anti-infantry weapon. As most anti-war people you are absolutely ignorant of the subject.
Gabriel Lee
Nobody worships Hitler here. Now you're just strawmanning because you have nothing else than "where is that painting with soviet soldier" and a poster that says "crusade against bolshevism"
That's right. But its members were Orthodox and they were a part of foreign legions as were other Romanians.
Carter Rodriguez
...
Juan Ward
I've seen several people who do. How often do I need to repeat this: Romania is irrelevant in the political context. They were a German puppet, they had some grievance with the Soviet Union over Bessarabia, it doesn't matter. Why are you so dense to understand this? Small countries don't decide the fate of the world, only Great Powers do. Germany would have attacked Russia even without Romania, but Romania never without Germany.
And? I cannot put it any other way, but: You are stupid. Your disjointed efforts at arguing and repetition of the same talking points allow for no other conclusion. Pray to God to make you less stupid. I am sorry friend, but I know nothing else to tell you.
Hunter Gomez
Your "truth" is as absurd as claiming the Napoleonic wars were a Catholic crusade against Protestant Britain, because most French soldiers were Catholic.
National socialism is not a Catholic ideology, no matter how you try to spin it. Prussia, where the backbone of German military tradition comes from, is not even a Catholic region. All the other Catholic nations you posted, save Italy, can be easily dismissed as German puppet nations, just as you dismiss Romania. And you completely ignored all other Theatres of WWII in your larp.
Dylan Lewis
Yeah…..I am sure this board is full of esoteric Hitlerists or something of the sort. All I have seen is some guys defending him…at most. And I am definitely not one of them. Just because you claim it does not matter that does not make it so. It becomes relevant if you claim catholics aimed to destroy Orthodoxy. If it was so, those Orthodox volunteers would not fight - particularly Russians - they had their own divisions, two of them. I never claimed Romania/Ukraine would attack by themselves Soviet union. They would not. I am just saying There wasn't a collective catholic effort to destroy Orthodoxy in WWII. - all your "evidence" to that is a strawman. Your only talking point is a revisionist effort you made and you adjust everything to it, ignoring facts that clearly contradict your statements. All you have is a poster "croisade contre bolshevisme" and the fact that many Axis powers were catholic. Your claim is as legit as if Prots claimed: Soviet Union attacked Finland(winterwar). Russia - Orthodox, Finland - Protestant. It was totally an Orthodox attempt to vanquish protestants in Finland. You see how that sounds? Similar ludicrous claims could be made by literally anyone. If you get the feeling I am "defending Axis"…I am not. I am just pointing out your bullshit claims against catholics. Facts do not add up to your fairy tale. Yeah man. If you call others stupid you will win the debate. lol. Enjoy the larp. muh papists, right?
Cooper Edwards
I can't see ANYTHING going wrong with THIS thread …
Just because molotovs were intended as anti-vehicular weapons doesn't dismiss that they were sometimes used on infantry, either in combat or as a sadistic means of execution.
