Is this true?

yes, i can imagine them being actively engaged in maintaining pointless ritualism, especially that which prevents the laity from understanding what God would speak to them from Scripture

I like how we've pointed out that the translations are put out for the laity to read in the last thread, but people like you keep ignoring it because they're intellectually dishonest and don't have our best interests at heart.

If he cared he would have given us a single holy language such as hebrew.
Instead we have only ancient and revered liturgical languages but no holy language.

AGE

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Language doesn't matter, it's what you're saying that is important. However when using very old prayers that were not originally written in English, you could be saying something completely different than what was originally different. How would you know if you have only ever read it in English?

well i don't like how alleged christians ignore the words of st. paul who said in 1 corinthians 14:19 that he would rather speak 5 intelligible words to instruct the church than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue, especially when it adds an unnecessary aura of mystic superstition to the gospel of Christ which has continually bred an atmosphere of heretical folk-religion throughout the history of the church

You haven't read the Bible until you've read it in the original Klingon.

Clearly about Latin and not people pretending to speak in tongues

Oh okay so instead of ignoring the argument in question, we're going to convince ourselves that traditional ceremonies do the opposite of what it actually do. Sure.

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read first cor again - paul is speaking of legitimate tongues being practised

as for these so called 'traditional ceremonies', we have an apostolic tradition straight from paul telling us he wants preachers to preach in the language of the people

divergence from that has historically led to people making an idol of the magic words being spoken over them, as if there is some power or mystical significance in the language being used

this is the same idolatry as the KJV-onlyists practice, do you really want to sin in the same way?

Latin is a Catholic language pretending to be a scriptural language.
So as long as you DON'T say them in Latin, all is good.

I do wonder how far the word would've gotten if people like you would've been discouraging the use of Latin this hard since the beginning, probably not far enough for you to be even aware of it today much less be able to complain about it.

wow that's a cool and funny meme picture.

Nobody is speaking 10000 words in an "unknown" tongue, churches that intermix Latin and Greek liturgically repeat the same phrases again and again that are also at times done in English, the language is explained and also translated in missals. Homilies are given in English even in full Latin masses. When "Angus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi" is sung instead of "Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world" nobody is mystified or confused. Plus as vernacular languages evolve over time, it is valuable that liturgical words are translated from a common basis in another language, the alternative is confusion of language and possible error creeping in from translating past vernacular into future vernacular repeatedly.

The consensus would say 'the language doesn't matter.' But just in case, let's all learn koine Greek so to pray rightly as the apostles did.

What, that 12/11/18 was a Tuesday? Only in America.

Seriously, why is this thread?

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I'm sure there's an ridiculous meme somewhere in my collection that can equal that statement

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while i disagree with your assertion that 10,000 words aren't being spoken in unknown tongues, since the liturgies are said at every mass throughout the world, numbering words in the million-millions; i think you make one of the strongest arguments for maintaining the use of ecclesiastical latin with this:

i respect the sentiment of that argument because those who wish to maintain continuity with the historic faith must of necessity have a fixed foundation point

but please, read what you are saying again… you decry the use of modern language when speaking the liturgies – so as to preserve the doctrines contained therein – yet admit that in every instance it is necessary to translate those same liturgies into the local tongue

you're running in circles friend, and make no argument for the speaking of latin in churches, for in every instance and in every age, the church is still tasked with making the meaning clear and free from error to its people

now please, do you really not see the circularity of that thought?

and moreover, since we know from history that error, heresy and idolatrous folk-religion has always crept in when a rite or form has been imbued with a spiritual significance it does not own; i would have to ask why-oh-why would you want to put more stumbling blocks in the way of Christ's flock – latin isn't a magic language, so why give the unlearned the impression that it is?

… look, here's my resolution to this - you don't have to answer this question ITT - but is it possible that the reason you like Latin in church is because you just like the way it makes you feel?

if that's the case, i quite understand - it's like candles and incense and choral strains from the vestibules - the smells and bells are a joy to the senses; especially so at this time of year

but we have to remember that the gospel is something so much more transcendent, able to sustain a man who is chained to a cell under persecution; and in reality it needs no such ornamentation to display it's intrinsic worth; the cracked lips of the condemned martyr giving just as much glory to God as the highest choir of angels

nb4 moreso, because the highest of angel has never been redeemed

No. I actually want to not have to relearn different prayers every 5 years or so. So just learn it in Latin. Pope Francis might change the Our Father translation 10 times before he is done. It might be called Our Daddy by the time he is done. (JESUS CALLED HIM ABBA AND IT'S BEST TRANSLATED AS DADDY). Maybe update the Trinity translation so that it'll be The Daddy, the Boi and the Holy Casper.

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Shut up. As if they were speaking Klingon at the tower of Babel. I highly doubt they were speaking Vulcan their either, but I am willing to accept I'm wrong if someone can provide sufficient evidence.

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Church standard in the West, the East spoke and wrote in Greek

Hallowed be *your* name… *your*….*your*..

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