Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus

Do Catholic's really believe that Orthodox saints like St Seraphim of Sarov are burning in hell because they're in a schismatic church? Also how can a church have valid sacraments if salvation in it is impossible?

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Eastern Catholics venerate Eastern Orthodox Saints. Oriental Catholics venerate Oriental Orthodox Saints. The Syro-Malabar and Chaldean Catholics venerate Assyrian Church of the East Saints. So to answer your question, no. Also in regards to St. Seraphim Sarov explicitly, Saint Pope John Paul II called him a Saint in his book "Crossing the Threshold of Hope."

Also the person who pushed Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus to mean only the RCC was excommunicated, so there's that. Not to mention the following:

and on and on. Many such examples of Saints overlapping. People accusing each other's Saints of prelest are completely ignorant to how the Church has operated with Saints.

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Really activates my almonds.

If you're being sarcastic because of all the recent… shall we say controversies with Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, just know he canonized St. Stephen of Hungary into the Orthodox Church way back in the year 2000. So long before any of this current mess.

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Did John McCain also whisper that into his ears or only with the Ukraine?

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And you fall for CIA's tricks.
Who is still around? Certainly who is bigger and badder, ain't it?

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I don't see anyone else schisming from Constantinople except Russia and the ROCOR having a temper tantrum, do you?

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I suppose he should just never travel and stay in Turkey under Erdogan's thumb then?

Your papism is showing, Bart.
It's also curious how both the US State Depts interests and Barts actions in Ukraine line up perfectly, almost like they're working together against Russia. Really makes you think.

The head of the Church is Christ, heretic.

I put it in quotation marks around "head" for a reason. He's First Among Equals, he's our figurehead and representative. I never meant the literal head like he's a Pope. What other word would you have me use Putin?
Also ah yes, because Russia has been completely innocent in the Ukraine affair no? Not like they've tried to take half of Ukraine already- oh. Wait.

Are you a woman?
No insult, I'm actually curious.

So you don't even deny that Bart colludes with the US Dept, you just start pointing fingers at Russia and say "Well they aren't innocent either so that means I can do whatever I want!"
Pathetic.

You called me Bart first, I'm not pointing fingers anywhere Mr. "McCain whisperer." Only returning what you said to me. What would you like, sources? I can certainly get some if you'll actually read it.

Are you creating these threads to sow discontent?
You're the same guy from that "shared ground" thread, are you not?

He's not even the McCain Whisperer, I am. Are you unfamiliar with this website?

Yeah, you must be a woman.

I didn't make this thread first of all. Second of all you're the one who started crapflinging by insulting my Patriarch. As my priest has said, both Kirill and Bartholomew will answer for this, but my church is still under Bartholomew so to him will my loyalties lie. That is all there is to it. I don't think Bartholomew has been colluding with the US Defense Department. Haven't you noticed all of these sites attacking Bartholomew are Russian? I'm saying there's a bit of bias going on here. I'm not just going to side with Russia after what they've done in both Georgia and Ukraine.

I simply refuse to believe someone actually thinks like this. You must be lying.

Also, nice deflection from being the same guy pushing shared ground. Woman.

I'm loyal to my Patriarch, why shouldn't I be? If my church schisms from him then so be it, but until then why would I throw my patriarch under the bus? I can't just randomly go to another Patriarch and say he's mine. Also good job you 2 for completely derailing the thread because I mentioned Bartholomew once.

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First of all, your loyalties shouldn't lie with men but with the Truth. Second, Bart's action is not canonical and no other canonical Church supports him. Heck, even Kallistos Ware said Bart is in the wrong. Third, the Russian state could invade Ukraine outright and take over the entire country and it still wouldn't make Bart's decision canonical. Fourth, he's my Patriarch as well but that doesn't mean I'm obligated to agree with him, we aren't Catholics.

I'd like a source on Kallistos please. Not OrthoChristian.com though, they've done nothing but put out hitpieces on the Patriarch.

We may not be Catholics, no, but I was taught by my priest we should be loyal to our Patriarchs in these turbulent times, they are the collective shepherds of our flocks. What you're doing right now is the equivalent of Catholics jumping ship because of that Pennsylvania Sex Scandal. Have a little faith in Patriarch Bartholomew. Given what I've read from Archbishop Job, he has his reasons. I don't think Russia should have schismed to begin with. All that did was make the situation far worse.

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go back to Palestine

rt.com/news/446375-orthodox-churches-split-interview/
“This is a fact of history that Ukraine has belonged to the Russian Church. I believe therefore, it has been a mistake for the Ecumenical Patriarch to give autocephaly to the two schismatic bishops"
Go ahead and attack the source if you want, it's not going to take those words out of Met. Kallistos' mouth.
Arius was also a priest. You need to use discernment, not just rely on others to know what is right.
No, it would be equivalent if I said I'm going to convert over this issue, which I'm not.
It's not his job to have reasons, it's his job to stay true to Orthodoxy, which means for him as a bishop with great honor to follow the canons of the Church in both letter and Spirit.

The Catholic Church never makes any claims to who is in Hell, only who is in Heaven. Except for possibly Judas, and that's going by the Sacred Tradition.

Exactly.

This is “I don’t understand ‘no salvation outside the Church’ oh wait let’s ortho-autism this thread to crap’, the thread

That being said, there are saints who have had visions of specific people in Hell and Heaven. For example Sister Maria Serafine Micheli had seen Martin Luther in Hell, and Venerable Edvige Carboni had Mussolini appear to her after his death and she prayed for years for his soul in Purgatory, and it was saved.

Wait, so Mussolini is in heaven?

That dude is likely in hell but you have to remember the icon was made for the bear. Bear-san is most likely in heaven. Jesus and Bear-san both like fish and honeycomb. Think that's a coincidence? There are no coincidences.

...

This, nice to see someone knowledgeable in Eastern Catholic traditions.

And this.

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Yup: his wife and Padre Pio saw him in Heaven…and Padre Pio also said Hitler and Stalin were in Hell.

It's the number 1 rule of the internet and what do you go and do … ???

cute photo


pic related

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Don't listen to Padre Pio. He's a near universalist and believes only a few people go to Hell which is clearly against the words of Christ. He also pronounced a devout Jew would be in heaven, despite their child being a Catholic. See how amazing invincible ignorance is? Even if your own child shares Christ with you, you're still invincibly ignorant. Utter trash Bishop Barron, Mother Theresa. A Muslim shouldn't be a Catholic, be a good Muslim and bow down to a black stone and and lie for the sake of your deity named Allah. A Hindu should be a good Hindu and worship Ganesh day and night, and listen to the words of Krishna, that you can do unrighteousness needs (Adharma) for the sake of establishing Dharma (righteousness - loose translation). Be a consequentialist like a good follower of Sri Sri Bhagwan Krishna Dev Ji. Oh and if you can't do good deeds in this life it's okay, you literally get unlimited retries.

Sancta Kuma San, Ora Pro Nobis! 🐻