Is an authoritarian christian state the only way?

Based af

Low iq statist
Tom woods is one of the good Catholics

Guess you missed Moses and Aaron tandem and "render Caesar's unto Caesar" part when reading the Bible.
State and Church have to be separate but assisting each other, Just as Body and Soul. Google "Symphonia"

Yikes

How do you excommunicate someone if the relationship wasn't voluntary to begin with?

You don't, you force them to repent and serve a repentance. Or for very serious sins and crime, there is more severe punishment such as prison or death sentence.

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Edgy, but totally distinct from the biblical concepts of excommunication and repentance

If God wanted to force someone to do something, we would already be saved and not rotting in our shit and pus.
Or are you better than God?

There would never be a world without rules and there would never be a world without punishment for deviants. God gave free will to men, but that doesn't mean that they could do whatever they want and sin like they want.

The only answer is a traditional monarchy or republic. Everything else is revolutionary and subversive

Sure, the world really went downhill after the lost first world war.

But looking at the problem modestly, any worldly stateform tends to fall sooner or later. Because it is imperfect. No need to make a stateform to an idol.

I would prefer a monarchy, because it is a proven system and is asthetically and mystically pleasing, but that is not the important part. As long as it is christian at root, it will last a bit longer and maybe bring more to salvation. Democracy can work to if it is not so infested by liberalism and all its spawns like today.

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Same thing as vatican city but with other countries

this.
Despite being a Catholic I have tremendous respect for the Iron Guard under Codreanu.

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Didn’t the Iron Guard start venerating Codreanu like a cult leader, and after his death, start literally torturing and hanging Jews on butchers’ hooks as some kind of political statement?

I am aware of that story, but as far as I know, there is no evidence to support the claim that they started hanging Jews on butcher hooks.

History has shown that to be horrible(and canonically illegal), if only because shitty leaders hide behind the Church, and pad their incompetence by invoking the will of God.
Also, the Church gets blamed for all the state's winnie the pooh-ups.

And it's retarded.

It's kinda something everyone knows happened around these parts, since it was a big scandal at the time.

Not even. The closest bs legionaries try to pull is "we were friends with the jewish prisoners in commie camps, so it's cool"

As a personal comment, Codreanu's political ideals have always been feels that are good ideas, instead of anything practical.

"Our party will be, like, autistically restrictive to select the cream of the crop, and like super patriotic, and everyone will be hard-working and supporting the good of the State"

t.romanian

Salazar didn't create a "Church of Portugal", though.

Unlike some kings in Northern Europe.

The Church literally has never been the same thing as The State.

Also

And yet there is litterly no evidence for it except the tired "it's a pogrom goy!" bullcrap. And I believe the only scrap of supposed "evidence" is in the hands a some jew academic that she references but doesn't have time to produce to people interested in it.

How exactly could he. Litterly everything he did was blocked by a corrupt government. He made work camps made up of iron guard to fix the neglected peasant areas and they make it illeagal saying its undermining the country.

Seeing it was working for them quite well, till, you know, they were killed, imprisoned, brainwashed and generally did away with and anyone else who wasn't a commie shit.

Imagine being such a disgusting obscene and evil """people""" that you have to have a word that means "the goyim are going to kick us out of their land". Disgusting subverting people.

Based Portuguese brother.

It was a national public scandal at the time.
The fact that the West got it off a newspaper report later is irrelevant.
I'm talking in principle.
It was turning into a undisciplined shitshow.
Which is partly because of them.
Codreanu became wiser and less bloodthristy while imprisoned, and urged his group to be patient and pray until a favourable situation came along, and the faction that was more loyal to him actually did that, but the guys under Trifa and Sima weren't, which sealed their fate.

Profit doesn't care about my religion and morals. So why should we base our society around it? Capitalism actively destroys morals because it needs to sell our vices as virtues. Apathy is sold as respect, impunity is sold as freedom, etc. It's actively evil.

He didn't mention profit nor capitalism you stupid motherwinnie the pooher.

Salazar was a brutal dictator who ran a murderous police state. Not sure why you would want that? Unless of course the alternative is:

Lmao

Sauce? Not bait, genuinely curious. Even among non-fascists (which is sort of an irrelevant point cause Salazar wasn’t a fascist but he has certainly developed fascist fanboys) I’ve heard that Salazar was a pretty good and benevolent leader.

Yes, because you can't whip people up with lies.

What point does that make. You can either prove it or you can't.

So being Christian isn't practical.

In some ways but again it's hard not to when you're being MURDERED AND IMPRISONED.

No. Its because a pack of bloodthirsty Jews and commies wanted Codreanu's head. Everything else is just bullshit after the fact.

His author is ancap.

That's literally what caused the Protestant Reformation. Kings wanting to have power over both State and Church.

The world's greatest looting operation of the Church, done under the guise of religion.

Bretty much.

Letter to the Hussites by the most based Nationalist of all time:

"Jesus, Mary

For a long time now, common knowledge has made it clear to me, Joan the Maiden, that from true Christians you have become heretics and practically on a level with the Saracens [i.e., Muslims].You have eliminated the valid faith and worship, and have taken up a disgraceful and unlawful superstition; and while sustaining and promoting it there is not a single disgrace nor act of barbarism which you would not dare. You corrupt the sacraments of the Church, you mutilate the articles of the Faith, you destroy churches, you break and burn statues [of the saints] which were created as memorials, you massacre Christians unless they adopt your beliefs. What is this fury of yours, or what folly and madness are driving you? You persecute and plan to overthrow and destroy this Faith which God Almighty, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have raised, founded, exalted, and enlightened a thousand ways through a thousand miracles. You yourselves are blind, but not because you're among those who lack eyes or the ability to see. Do you really believe that you will escape unpunished, or are you unaware that the reason God does not hinder your unlawful efforts and permits you to remain in darkness and error, is so that the more you indulge yourselves in sin and sacrileges, the more He is preparing greater suffering and punishments for you.

For my part, to tell you frankly, if I wasn't busy with the English wars I would have come to see you long before now; but if I don't find out that you have reformed yourselves I might leave the English behind and go against you, so that by the sword - if I can't do it any other way - I will eliminate your false and vile superstition and relieve you of either your heresy or your life. But if you would prefer to return to the Catholic faith and the original light, then send me your ambassadors and I will tell them what you need to do; if not however, and if you stubbornly wish to resist the spur, keep in mind what damages and crimes you have committed and await me, who will mete out suitable repayment with the strongest of forces both human and Divine."

-March 23, 1430

Just to add, I wish Joan turned from the English and nipped Proto-Protestants in the bud. Maybe history would have been different.

Nothing cooler than a Christian State and Church in one, with a Saint as the head of your army. Come on, now. I would have died for that. Instead I have….. this. Whatever this faggot and Jew driven, "toy/make believe" country is supposed to be.

Salazar never killed one person.
Even the commies in jail in cabo Verde had natural deaths.

So you place the American constitution above God's word? Your statement has no biblical basis. A christian government doesn't need to be an authoritarian regime.

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This is because of good vs. bad people. Every law can become corrupted when 'followed' by wicked men. The more men there are who follow God's word, the healthier a civilisation will be.

That's a lot of risk. If this was a business, I wouldn't invest. I'd invest in a company with an actual plan, and not just "winging it" and setting really openended guidelines "hoping everyone does the right thing".

The post-reformation Germans are atheists, so even with their best attempts to recreate the medieval Christian state in the shape of National Socialism, they failed. The Italian Fascists under Mussolini didn't even try, they instead copied the pagan Roman Empire. Both states were short-lived because their foreign policy was led not by charity and justice, but by greed.
We need to create fascism on a strong Christian basis if we want a state for the 21st century. The feudal monarchy, while admirable, right, and just has ultimately too many critical faults like inbreeding and civil war. Yet, it was the most Christian state until now.

gas the kikes, race war now

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Fack off you protestant jew

Wrong
That was a pre-reformation reality of the papacy

Show us from the Bible a mandate for merger between church and state

The kingdom of Israel.

Not a church

also not a mandate, you've only shown an example of a system of government with control over religious practice that was established in spite of God's preference

High priest and King had different roles. In fact, Samuel cursed Saul for usurping role of the priest, you moron.

That's an example of religion and state being together tigger.

You winnie the pooh moron, in medieval monarchies the King and the clergy had different roles as well.

Okay, I'm looking for a Biblical mandate to satisfy the point "God's word demands union between church and state"
Here's a counterpoint: the new testament churches were persecuted by the government, but satisfied every Biblical responsibility of the local church. How can this be without state support?

And therefore, the state and church were separate and not merged. Assisting eachother, but not asserting dominance or assimilating (except papacy and several states within HRE). If you want Caliphate, Pooh thee well to Baghdad.

bluepilled as winnie the pooh

Ancap backed by Christian morality is literally ideal, albeit unobtainable.

ancap + christian morality is closer to ancom. literally nothing about capitalism is christian

define capitalism and explain

We weren't trying to prove that was in the bible. God doesn't demand anything. But history proved that such governments were much better for the caring of the souls than secular States.
Because the state wasnt Christian.
But in states were Christians arw a majority the church should be part of the governing of the country.
Examples why the opposite is bad we have the USA and western Europe.

Capitalism is simply the exchange of goods and services according to market demands. You have cows, I have gold, you want my gold to buy other things and I want your cows to eat. It is a lot like science in that it is neither good nor evil, that only depends on how it is used. Our society is corrupted, so capitalism as you see it is evil.

capitalism is the autistic desire to make sure you get as much material wealth as possible for your services or trades. if capitalism were a person, it would be the guy who doesn't want to split the bill evenly because he got less food than other people, essentially a kike.
if everyone was a good christian, there would be no need for money in the first place

Ok, that was unproductive
explain your position "nothing about capitalism is christian" under an accurate definition: an economic system based upon private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.

Dude, I just posted the Letter from Joan of Arc.

Hold your horses. The business thing just an analogy. You can't be that dull. The point is that the Constitution takes a huge risk and sees freedom in and of itself as it's "Vision". I don't care about Freedom. I care about being a servant of Jesus Christ.

That the whole "the Bucharest pogrom was some invention conjured out of thin air, and first mentioned by some foreign journalist weeks after" meme is bullshit.
In fact, with pic related(an apocryphal letter signed by slaughterhouse workers, denying the narrative), we even have a name for one of the earliest papers that reported on it, "Romania libera".

Also, read this:
buciumul.ro/2018/01/21/inedit-pogromul-de-la-jilava-adevarul-despre-ianuarie-1941-redeschideti-ancheta-dupa-76-de-ani/
It's well sourced, and has a lot of conclusions you might agree with.

Christianity is full of canons and rules precifically made in order to make secular and ecclesiastic administration(any accusation is to be brought before the synod, all bishops need to be consecrated by multiple bishops, etc.) clear and conciliar, and not turn it into an idiotic shouting match between retards who's only argument is being the loudest in bragging that they are the only ones defending and serving the country/God, and anyone who disagrees is some jewish traitor that wishes to subvert them.
As a sidenote, some of these canons(81-84) specifically forbid clergy from being part of the gov. or army leadership, or vice-versa, as you are proposing.

This predates that.
And even so, they went directly against Codreanu's wishes, doing violence and threatening Carol, which resulted in the king finding the perfect excuse to execute him.
That's what i'm getting at.
The Legion was a fractured, fanatical beast with multiple, large camps(+some breakway movements, like "Cruciada Romanismului") that were following their own radicalised paths.
That's a disastrous way of leading anything, long-term.

The Legion was too unhinged for anyone to reason with or control.
The king imprisoned them, and made his own pseudo-Legion, Antonescu directly deposed them, Hitler advised Romania to get rid of them, etc.

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man doesn't own shit, all is God's

non-argument
I'm asking for a basic reasoning for this anti-capitalist position and all i'm getting are useless platitudes for misdirection

Read the parable of the talents again, Matt 25:14. We are the stewards of God's creation, so the discussion is how man ought to use his resources.
If you oppose private property, the alternative is public property i.e. state control of the economy. Is that what you're advocating? If so, I'd like to hear it

not me you retard illiterate

It doesn't need to be an argument. What fool debates with God's dominion?

Speaking of which, that's what any of this comes down to. People who value "arguments" and people who don't.. who just want to submit to God and stop their liberal faggotry.

Did you claim that capitalism is not christian or are you just interjecting

Is that me? Because I edited.

In any case, my edit shows my main stance on this whole thread. This whole subject shouldn't even be up for debate.

man ought to use his resources to glorify God and to uphold human dignity. there is no such thing as private or public property, everything belongs to God, even your body. yes, he has given us dominion over the earth, but we have a duty to use what he has given us in a way that honors him. if everyone understood this and was on board with it, there would be no need for money, and no need for a state to "own" everything, everyone would just share and work not for himself, but his neighbor. that doesn't mean you can't have your own house and shit.

textbook overspiritualization
nobody is rejecting that all of creation is ultimately God's
We have ownership as stewards of God's creation. We call that PROPERTY

The Anglo-American Christian right disagrees with you.

But I'm sure he also had his flaws

Of course. They've been pozzed (Jewed). The world will get a little better the minute they cut ties with that.

True, rather the state must be subordinated to the church.

contradiction

Yes. Secularism eventually leads to atheism. When you're "free" to worship anything you like you're saying "it does not matter what the truth is, the truth is what you choose" You cannot be christian and relativist at the same time. As well as the idea of (((religious liberty))) it melts christianity pretty quickly. Liberal democracy is a cancer imposed upon the west. Most americans will disagree with me but the truth is that Americanist ideals are built upon the very values I criticize. It is a dead end created by what protestantism brought to europe - a never ending fracture. Secularism, democracy, the rule of money.

kek. I hope this is irony posting - upholding a selfish ideology with no morals whatsoever is literally what's wrong with the west.

Exactly. Anglo-american ideals have a anti-christian origin, like liberalism, hobbesianism, muh rights, muh liberty and so on. We christians must reject any anti-christian philosophy, specially those with enlightnement origins, since they completly destroy the faith and society.

This. But it's a nice trick isn't it. You're still free to practice your religion, do all the ceremonies. pretend your a christian nation… but little by little it erodes any value of christianity, turns it into a sunday hobby, and by the time you make it to the supreme court, you better leave your christianity at the door.

btw have you listened/read David Wemhoff? he's done a couple shows on Peter Hellands's yt channel and talks about this. How Americanism/liberalism conquers all and it'll probably remain until the 2nd coming.

completely and absolutely not.

Zig Forums needs to stop fantasising about creating heaven on earth. There is a perfectly good one coming.

ftfy

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It's not fantasy. We're just not pozzed with Jewish dispensationalism. Jesus and the Father are working, and so should we be.

Precisely. first Christianity is respected, it is literally the religion of everyone except for few atheists, jews and """pseudointellectuals""". Then you have a debate on how many % are still christian. Then christianity is an important guiding principle but "nobody lives up to it anymore". THen you;re a backward moron for following it. Then """press""" start proclaiming you're already an atheist nation before it is even truth.
When it comes down this road long enough with enough """secular carols""" and commercialization of everything sacred then "christmas" gets to be "winter festival" or whatever.
The whole concept was built upon this presupposition to do this.

Have you got a link? I really liked what Bishop Williamson had to say about it but I am afraid I cannot link to a specific show. His podcasts are worth listening to anyway btw.

lol

Isn't it funny how "being good christian" turned into "being nice". Whatever that means by liberal standards. Basically anyone can throw sh*t at you, everyone has an opinion on what you should/should not do.

Pro-tip: Never let people who are not christian define your faith.

Yeah it is.
Whenever this thread is made for the seventh time, it always turns into a political circlejerk about "muh pure incorruptible rough daddy state that will take care of those mean minorities and jews and women, without me having to lift a finger by actually being civically involved, or being a head of household that can actually educate and keep his family in line against the bullshit advertised in media"

lol. Yeah. isolated strong father figures will save the day especially if they got hands tied in a way they can get fined/ get they kid taken away from them if they object when his son comes to a realization he wants to cut his dick off. This is like next level lolbergtarian burgerism.
Seeing half of the catalog there are far worse threads anyway why whine about this one? Nobody forces you to participate. Go post in endless should I be cath or ortho threads if this thread is so bad.

Yeah, thinking a Munster-meets-Nazi-Germany-meets-Saudi-Arabia with a dash of economic nordic socialism, that is both incorruptible AND brutally repressive and aligns with your specific denominational beliefs is the only way your faith can exist is an effing retarded fantasy.
We've had a billion ideologies that imposed those same retarded measures across the past 2k years.
We shook them off like a bad case of fleas, in the long term.
Raise your kid even nominally right, and he will consider trans shit to be retarded, even if he told its actually ok.
It's a thread done to death, and keeps flooding the first page from time to time.

A good christian would be calling out the Jews.

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Can you compress more buzzwords into one sentence? hardly. Meanwhile your sentence does not say much to counter the arguments presented so far - it just says the opposite that;s all.
Your "model" is easily shattered by the state of America nowadays. The concept of "muh freedumz" does not work. Get over it. Furthermore liberal democracy as we see it imposes over people as any other "ideology" so claiming one's free in it is really puzzling to me..
If democracy lets you choose…then why cannot we choose not to live in democracy? This is literally a million dollar question for the whole west. You can choose…but only in what's presented to you.
no you cannot. In many countries you go to jail for having a wrong opinion. So much for "muh FREEEDUMBZ!"
Say what you want but there is no system that would approve its getting knocked out by another system. Therefore the line between "democratic" and "authoritarian" or "dictatorship" blurs. Anyone calls democratic what they prefer and uses "dictatorship" to smear opponents.

Democracy (or mob rule) is and has always been totalitarian.

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