Read Bible

What do? pic unrelated

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How is it possible to read the Bible and come to the conclusion that Protestantism is right about anything?

Read Orthodox commentaries on the Bible and see if they seem to be right about the Bible too

Because protestants believe sola scriptura, which is the claim that the Bible holds all that you need for salvation, and you don't need anything outside of it for salvation. The Bible of course lends credibility to that belief, if it didn't the belief would be self defeating. The catholic and orthodox churches believe you need sacraments and other things not mentioned specifically in the Bible but handed down through tradition.

Why yes we do :^)

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Many of those sacraments are in the Bible, they’re just not called sacraments. The word trinity never appears in the Bible, but the concept may be found none the less.
T. Nondenom

The belief is self-defeating, user. Sola scriptura is nowhere in the Bible, and in fact the Bible contradicts it pretty directly.

Those are actually good points. I'm not a theologian or anything and I'm still learning a lot about Christianity despite being raised catholic. It's something I got away from for a few years and only recently started to care a lot more about it.

Don't forget about Jude referencing the assumption of Moses and the book of Enoch as if the stories were true. There's things like this all over the Bible if you look. Not even the people who wrote the Bible believed in Sola Scriptura. How could the first Christians believe in Sola Scriptura if the Bible wasn't even written down yet, much less collected and compiled into a single text?
Then it begs the question of who decided which texts are 'bible' and which aren't. Who had the authority? Where did their authority come from?

Canon was defined after the fact, yet for some reason when the same traditions define correct spirituality as something beyond that canon it’s “ heretical “. Um… next!

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Sola sceiptura is a man made term that I no where to be found in the Bible.
Jesus didn't say: "look it up, it's in the Bible.

Not a contradiction with Sola scriptura
The doctrine doesn't say to never observe tradition

Read what I wrote more carefully, there's a bit of nuance to sola scriptura that a lot of people miss. Sola scriptura is the belief that the Bible holds what is necessary for salvation (the gospel). Whether that knowledge comes from reading the Bible or from being taught by someone else (a priest, a pastor, an apostle, Jesus Christ himself) doesn't matter, what matters to protestants is that you understand the gospel and are saved by it. I'm not sure if that's correct or not, the Catholic Church would have me believe otherwise, but there's compelling arguments from both sides. While I'm not op, I'm in the same boat with him that it's a tough decision to make.

That's also a good point. Sola scriptura says nothing about avoiding tradition, and many protestant churches have their own traditions. They just believe that those traditions are not necessary for salvation because they're not found in the gospel. I'm Catholic and I like the traditions of the Church, but I'm not entirely sure if they're necessary or not. God only knows, so for the meantime I'll keep following them as I've been taught.

...

Here, it may be, someone will ask, Since the canon of Scripture is complete, and is in itself abundantly sufficient, what need is there to join to it the interpretation of the Church? The answer is that because of the very depth of Scripture all men do not place one identical interpretation upon it. The statements of the same writer are explained by different men in different ways, so much so that it seems almost possible to extract from it as many opinions as there are men. Novatian expounds in one way, Sabellius in another, Donatus in another, Arius, Eunomius and Macedonius in another, Photinus, Apollinaris and Priscillian in another, Jovinian, Pelagius and Caelestius in another, and latterly Nestorius in another. Therefore, because of the intricacies of error, which is so multiform, there is great need for the laying down of a rule for the exposition of Prophets and Apostles in accordance with the standard of the interpretation of the Church Catholic.

(3) Now in the Catholic Church itself we take the greatest care to hold that which has been believed everywhere, always and by all.
St. Vincent

Tradition with a capital T can be said to be a formalization of what's in Scripture. At every Mass we take Communion because Christ told us that it was His body and to eat it in remembrance of Him, and also that there would not be salvation for any that did not eat of His flesh. This is a good example of Scripture and Tradition being equally important. You need to believe what Christ said in Scripture, and you also need to partake in the Tradition of Communion in order for your belief to have any meaning.

Good answer and some nice trips to go with it, thanks. I don't actually believe in sola scriptura, I'm just trying to get some conversation flowing and gather some arguments I can use later. I hope I'm not alone in believing this has been a good thread, I like seeing respectful conversations like this with fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Bless you all.

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And then he told us in the Bible
Any trust in works for salvation is a false gospel

Ah, yes, the old "my opponent is a pelagian" meme.

Not what I'm alleging
I openly embrace semipelagianism

The problem with sola scriptura is not just that they do not believe in sacraments. The real problem that Catholics and Orthodox have is that people come up with absolute retarded interpretations of the bible and then resort to 'muh holy spirit' as justification for their warped interpretation.

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Do they sound correct before the ascetic/monastic movement? or when Augustine of Hippo debated against Pelagius?

What book is that?

The Bible is the higher authority. Seek God first and He will direct your path (Proverbs 3:5-6).

"trust the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths".
Seems like it's telling you to not interpret the Bible for yourself.

is Buckethead catholic?

Really examine the doctrine of Original Sin and pray for insight. I think it often comes down to this.

Personally, I think I would have had an easier time in Catholicism pre-19th century…before the official dogma of Immaculate Conception. I think even the Orthodox and Catholics had more room to unite before this as well. It's not just issues of the filioque any longer.. but a major difference on original sin.

Christ is the highest Authority, and Scripture is equal with the Apostle's teaching, not all of which is contained in Scripture, as Scripture itself attests to.

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If anything, this maybe one of the reason why he realizes that the bible supports protestantism.

because they thought that jesus was telling them that they were going to have to eat his dead body. he responds, saying that they will not eat his flesh without his spirit. the body of christ in the eucharist is his living body, which means his spirit is inside of it.

What book is this?

It says right there lol
Marriage and Virginity According to St. John Chrysostom

the idea that the apostolic Churches never encouraged the study of Scripture is a left-over Protestant meme

That's a weird one. Same goes for translations. The whole reason why Slavs use the "Cyrillic" alphabet is named after St. Cyril and Methodius, who translated the scriptures for the new churches… still within the first millennium.

Do you believe in the Bible or in history?

Why was half of this thread deleted?

Because the mods are pretty ban-happy, especially for anyone who's not catholic.

Why does everyone put up with it?
Is there a different board to go to?

There's a couple, but they aren't nearly as active and some of them are a lot more tolerant of gnosticism and stuff. /christ/ is probably the most active of the ones I know of, but there's also /christianity/ that has a little bit of content. Both are incredibly slow boards compared to this one though.

Calvinism is the most biblical. So no.


Lol nha.

Ready to defend your beliefs? What church are you a part of?

Welp guess it's time to be protty.

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but the Church has married people for 2,000 years?

most heretical thing i've read all day