False gods

Are the false gods mentioned in the bible REAL entities or are they just statues?

Some verses indicate that they're just statues that don't do anything, and others seem to imply/outright state that they're REAL in the sense of them being demons LARPing as gods.

So which is it?

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en.wiktionary.org/wiki/god#English
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All the pagan gods are demons.

I guess it depends. Some may be demons, some may not exist in anyway. But we know that there is only one God, the Trinity.

Originally, everyone (Adam and Eve, their children, etc.) worshiped the trinity. Eventually some people added more members of the trinity and gave them hobbies, new names and human personality traits thus turning them into the pantheon of gods that the pagans worshiped. A few story tellers and poets hammered out some folktales to tell the kids before bed and boom, mythology is born.

Without even getting into the book of Enoch (because I know it's controversial and.. outside of that, very abused), just looking at Genesis 6 would tell you something fishy happened with guardian angels dropping their duties and mingling with humans (and impregnating the women.. which in turn created more demigod monstrosities). And it got so bad (the passage is short and doesn't say for how long), that God clean-slated and wiped out everyone except Noah and his family. Just put two and two together and think what could be so bad that he'd do that? It's practically like a new Creation story.

Some are personifications of natural events
Some are dead people
Some are demons

I think that your question comes from meme that fedoras trying to spread that OT faith was polytheistic and it acknowledged existence of other gods and Yahweh was just another deity. NO, its retarded. Only instances when God actually talking about other gods as existing and legitimate beings is in Psalm 82 and its about us, who are made in His image and likeness and it was understood withing general concept of Theosis-main purpose of human beings. In other instances, false idols are called "gods" only because humans called them so, not because they had actual legitimacy or such. Most notorious case is Story of Elijah and Priests of Baal (who was, according to tradition, Nimrod (at least thats how St. Dimitry of Rostov writes)), when Elijah started mocking it in different ways.

Polytheism is basically dividing the attributes of God and worshipping them as separate entities, which easily leads to idolatry, because one can easily overemphasize one of the attributes over the totality of God.

I think "false gods" are basically God's attributes being divided and worshipped on their own for their own sake.

Criticize the shit out of me.

Jupiter may have been a mis-remembered Japheth, Haphaestus was almost certainly a folk memory of the antediluvian smith Tubal-Cain, and Tyr may well have been based on Tiras, son of Jalheth, son of Noah.

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Indeed. Demons, fallen angels, the name is not important. They are principalities that are given dominion over nations. Each nation has them. You see the LARPagans talk about racial gods; they are those. LARPagans are idiots.

Daniel 10:13-14, 20-21

Ephesians 2:1-3, 6:12


2 Corinthians 4:3-5

Why is it that a lot of the false gods throughout different civilizations are copy pasted into different cultures but with different names.

Greeks were influenced by Hittites and
Egyptians. Those in turn were influenced by Mesopotamia/Sumer. Roughly speaking.

You could say the Bible itself was influenced by Sumer, but as counter. Abraham was from Ur, but was called out to create a breakaway civilization. It's interesting though that apocryphal and Midrash stories say his father Terah was a priest in those religions (Terah itself means priest in Sumerian too), and a young Abraham supposedly destroyed his dad's idols. Apocryphal stories (and Islam which were borrowed them) even say Nimrod and Abraham had a confrontation over it.

Common origin at Babel. All tribes at the dispersion would have had the same stories at the start, particularly the pre-flood figures and post-flood figures like Nimrod (mighty hunter archetype). Sky-Father is the true God, Yahweh. The Earth-Mother is literally just the Earth; God "sired" Adam by the Earth, as in directly created hi, from the ground. This was mis-remembered by the Greeks as Saturn impregnating the sleeping Gaia.

As usual that's a jewish thing. The jews even believe the one God is just the amalgamation of all the other gods working together.

There's usually no etymological connections between the gods so I doubt it's from cultural branching. The demons just appear and prompt them to start paganism. Since it's the same demons you get the same pantheons but with different names.

A peaceful thread on Zig Forums?
It's a Christmas Miracle.

How does one reply to those common "arguments" made that the OT was just a copy from other religions (you know the argument that I'm talking about), and that the Flood story was just borrowed from other religions and so forth.

They had the same stories because the stories are actually true.

Here in South America there is a native tribe that also has a Flood story.
Did they copy it from other religions too?

In fact, the Flood story appears pretty much all over the world.

That's most likely because the Flood DID happen and it's so irrefutable that even the false religions of the world are right about it.

Don't know if image is garbage or not.

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Reality is that assessing such a thing is probably a much more complex matter that would require substantial study of anthropological research.

Broken clocks being right twice a day doesn't mean they're not broken.

Not a bad idea. I was going to say "well what about the really weird sinful sounding gods", but honestly many of them would fit under too much emphasis on one attribute. God's bringing new life into the world becomes fertility becomes sex worship, for example.

The Scriptures are part polemic and intentionally using things that people of the time were familiar with. Especially Genesis. It's almost as if they were an inside joke between ancient priests, in the way it says similar things, but denigrates other myths and always circles it back to one God.

Even the first passage where the world was void and chaotic is similar to the Egyptian creation story and can't be anything but intentional. Except the Word causes the act of creation and says "Let there be light!" and then other things happen in sequence (the sun, stars, beasts, etc). In Egypt, the Sun is prime and everything else follows (Ra).

The Adam and Eve story ends up differently than other versions, where the Garden of Eden was made for Man. In Sumer (and often in other myths), paradise was merely for the gods, and men were just slaves meant to take care of it. And Enki, the reptilian trickster, who sided with men, frees them (I'd go so far as to say the Prometheus story may have come from here too). While in the Bible, it's the serpent that causes enslavement to death and sin and ruins a freedom that was already there.
Sumerians were practically making the serpent the hero and liberator. Abraham's weird breakaway civilization called this a deception.

Following Abraham's faith is a matter of life or death.

Through the ages man tried to approach God but this was only completed in Christianity when God approached man.

i thought most of the pagan gods were based on ancestor worship for example the Egyptians worshiped Adam as atum

It basically was. As I mentioned above, there is a tradition according to which, Baal and its cognates Zeus and Jupiter are actually linked to Nimrod for example. And some pagan traditions are blatant ancestor worship, such as Shintoism and far eastern traditions.

I think it was originally an Upper/Lower Egypt difference (With Atum being central in lower Egypt, but eventually incorporated Ra when they united).

A long time ago, a people called Aryans or Indo-Europeans spilled out of what is now Persia and spread out all across Europe, the Levant, and India. They brought their gods with them, giving all Indo-European pagan religions a common origin.

IIRC there's a passage in the Book of Wisdom that suggests idol worship may have started with a guy making an image of his dead child. I could be wrong though.

A lot of that originally started from the Hittites too (Anatolia.. where it was discovered that they had the oldest Indo-Euro language…and possibly gods..). Although I suspect Iran also had direct Sumerian influences. Just about everyone does it seems.

Both if you read the old testament.

...

I'm in the process of reading the Macabbes book, but really, most of the Old Testament is just the history of Israel and Judah in a nutshell.

Calling him "God" stems from Odin (Wodin, Wod)

So its pretty clear that our religious institutions were hijacked and subverted sometime after paganism took roots.

The old testament also has plenty references to other gods being beyond human capabilities.

Making sure to inform jacob that he was the god of his ancestors and not one of the many other gods.

I swear religion is just history wearing a fancy gown and calling it macaroni.

Even the term Legend derives its name from old historical accounts of saints, whose deeds often had a miraculous or fantastical bend. This is why legends are known as stories with some magic sprinkled in.

The point being that they stemmed from history, not from some separate entity. The ages of old when when men of might and magic roamed was likely a very matter of fact time. There ironically would be infinitely less confusion because they lived in a time without standardized gluttonous information dumping.

We are so overwhelmed by options and possible realities that we are paralyzed in disability.

Odds are good that the most interesting story to be told on Earth is the one of pre history. Likely it hasn't even concluded with many of the key figures still battling it out in a more subtle indirect way. The age of aries was the age of efficient war and gritty realism. It is possible that the new planetary alignment will unlock a channel for the fantastical energies to flow once again.

Have you ever pondered what it might feel like to be one of only 10k humans left on the planet. How would your life force feel? Similar to the concept of the movie The One with jet li. If we have less people does that balance itself out by making these people more capable?

But it's not. There are a ton of wisdom books and plenty of stuff about non-Israelites. If you have any white admixture whatsoever you probably have Sumerian origins just like the Israelites and thus it applies to you since you're made of similar stuff.

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Everyone is made of similar stuff if you believe in Adam and especially Noah stories. Only evolution creates the big divides between people (on a genetic level at least).

I believe in the local over global theory. A global flood is just too absurd and we know humanity isn't a result of mass inbreeding. I bet global flood and universal Adam are just ancient fedora strawmen that Christians adopted, just like how the far right is identifying as the Nazi strawman now.

That's pretty much it

There it is. The stupidest thing I’ve read all day.

No, global flood and universal Adam are stupid. That's a pretty good strawman for a pseudo-intellectual (fedora) to project on a group to make them look stupid to outsiders.

Poo

Read psalm 82. (ESV)

God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
“How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
I said, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.”
Arise, O God, judge the earth;
for you shall inherit all the nations!

Yes the other gods are real. However, the Hebrew word for gods is elohim. It doesn't mean god in the sense that westerners use it. God to westerners means omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. To the ancient Isrealite it meant a powerful spiritual being. If you're interested in this read Dr. Michael Heisers work regarding, specifically his book, "Undeen Realm."

The old gods of the old testament were real entities. They were fallen spiritual beings (angels most likely) who violated their position.

I've told some people that before. Then I came across these etymologies.

Etymonline
god (n.)
Old English god "supreme being, deity; the Christian God; image of a god; godlike person," from Proto-Germanic *guthan, which is of uncertain origin; perhaps from PIE *ghut- "that which is invoked", from root *gheu(e)- "to call, invoke."
But some trace it to PIE *ghu-to- "poured," from root *gheu- "to pour, pour a libation".

Wiktionary
From Middle English god, from Old English god (“deity”), originally neuter, then changed to masculine to reflect the change in religion to Christianity, from Proto-Germanic *gudą, from Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰutós (“invoked (one)”), from Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰewH- (“to call, to invoke”) or *ǵʰew- (“to pour”). Not related to the word good.

etymonline.com/word/god#etymonline_v_9016
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/god#English

Reading this is fascinating. There are numerous interpretations of what the etymology is, including it being Odin, the name of an ancient tribal chief, transliteration from other languages, a word meaning “spirit,” a word meaning “idol,” etc.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_(word)

Yeah the etymonline entry mentions how terms derived from Proto-Germanic *ansuz would have been a better way to translate the Latin word 'deus' while 'god' is closer to Latin 'numen'.
Old English gospels used 'drihten' (modern drighten) for 'lord'.

The personification or anthropomorphization of philosophical ideals and concepts has been a part of the world's heritage. What would people here have to say on the matter?

Your personal opinion doesn’t matter. Universal Adam is a theological necessity, and the concept of a universal Adam is taught all through the Bible.

No, Its about humans. Read John 10

By "its", I mean the Psalm.

I'd say the God of the bible transcended any element or concept. I don't think even Moses was expecting this answer:

"Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you."

This idiotic meme needs to end. Everything aside, angels don't die.

Retarded.

No it's not. Read Revelation.

Retarded wojak.jpg
Also, reminder: angels don't die. Take your kikeish garbage elsewhere.

*Hurr
Bloody autocorrector

...

State of soul of everlasting anguish
Also, bingo, you are a disgusting annihilationst, just as I suspected.
Enjoy your ban

Are you even Christian? The Lake of Fire is called to man "THE SECOND DEATH". Thus, angels will die like men.

Yes I am and you are a disgusting heretic holding Talmudic views of rabbis. Also, "men" here is Adam (which means nor Adam as person and men in Hebrew) and dying like "men" is about separation of body and soul, body that angels dont even have. Not annihilation like JW qnd similar abhorrent sects want to spread.

Yeah, but it's not death in the sense of "ceasing".

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." -Rev 20:10

MOOOODS

Ban yourself.

Does man cease? Or is he also tormented forever and ever? You can't even follow your own logic.

I am not the only one who abhors heretical garbage such as annihilationism. And you will be on a chopping block soon enough. Everyone had it with your shitty meme heresies polluting this board for years

Strawman on 4chan with your LARPagan threads.

I was just gonna say that. Since Michael is technically the guardian of God’s People, does that mean every nation has an angel watching over it?

What more logic do I need? All I did was post the verse.

Because he's a heretic who can't even differentiate between "dying like men", that is physical death and second theatre that is self-separation from God, spiritual death.

If you were in my midst, I would punch you in the face. Slander and libel are not something I tolerate.

I call you what you are, a heretic. And ill enjoy red text on your posts.

You are a child and need to spanked. For the moment, an ignore will suffice.

I am not the one who's crying about "muh slander" , despite your idiotic mumbling about "LARPagans" (where did you came up with that is beyond me), not want I who started talking about punching someone like a midschool student. I just called you for what you are.

A man's physical body ends, but his spirit still exists. A man does not cease to exist anymore than an angel does, except on this material plane. He is judged or saved. Angels will be judged, and the saints even will judge them.

They will have death as a man. They will be judged, and they will have separation from God. The only difference between them and us is that there is no salvation for them.

Probably because you are one, now LARPing as a Christian, sowing discord among brethren and calling them heretics and for them to be banned. This thread was peaceful prior to your arrival.

well i have heard in ma. y conferences that ⅓ of heavens angels / satan followers, lusted after the earth dwellers like animals, men, women, etc.

And so they took forms of beasts and humans to satisfy their needs since angels are without any of these things.

God threw these and satan. And we have the term Fallen Angels of Sons of Gods


My theory in this is that, the Indian Mythology and all other mythologies are probably linked.

Indian mentions that there were 33 Million gods. Which can ⅓ of the heaven.

Many other mythologies have gods with powers and stories similar to a god of another.

Probably these gods had different names, or the worshippers each called them or wrote them in a different name once the Incident of Tower of Babel took place and we came to have tons of languages.

(first time on this community..)

Angels are not subject to carnal desires, they don't have such senses.
And sons of God in genesis are thought to be descendents of Seth, except by Ethiopians.

Also, devil fell because of pride, not lust. And demons utterly abhor mankind due to us being imagebearers of God.

Both. Statues are just statues, there is no power to them, but that doesn't stop demons from LARPing as whatever those statues are supposed to represent. Some false gods might be made up purely from people's imagination like puts it, some might be inspired by demonic deception, and anything in-between the two extremes is possible.

Only Rabbis long after the time of Christ taught that. Because they're the Synagogue of Satan, just like the NT told you. They're pushing forth racial supremacy and no better than Nazis. They also wrote that Mary was a whore and Jesus burns in a pile of excrement in hell. Avoid them at all costs.

Sons of God has been a euphemism since intertestamental for angels (Enoch, Dead Sea Scrolls, Jubilees), then even afterwards by Josephus. And the reason why Ethiopians hold that view is because Enoch and Jubilees are in their canon and they don't worship Jews like modern Evangelicals do.

What does racial superiority has to do with anything here? Everyone is descendent of Seth. And sons of Seth were called so because of their right eous nature, not to mention that humans are called sons of God, and God is referred in OT as father, both in Deuteronomy, Psalms such as 82 (and yes, it is talking about as and was interpreted as such by church fathers, and certain "opinions" do not matter), in Isaiah it is written "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.". Asides this this is how that part of genesis was interpreted by people like St. John Chrysostom, Augustine, St. John Cassian and so on. (Although admittedly there were also fathers that supported first interpretation). But if you want to talk about Jewishness, Josephus and Philo of Alexandria supported the angelic view. But most priests and bishops I talked to say that Seth interpretation is more accepted.
Nevertheless, other points remain. Angels are bodiless and free from carnal desires.

As for the Ethiopians and Jews, beta Israel is a thing and Enoch and jubilees are not accepted in Orthodoxy or Catholicism either, despite the fact that we acknowledge deuterocanonical books such as Maccabees and Wisdom. If the fathers would think that it would be worth reading, they would include it in list of deuterocanonical books, but since it is it there must be a reason why it wasn't.

Other way around. Jews teach the angel sex thing.

When I say Jews, I mean Jewish supremacists and Rabbis. They taught the Seth thing starting around the 2nd century. Simeon bar Yochai was the first to specifically push it. He was a Kabbalahlist and "cursed" anyone who referred to it as "sons of God".

The only Christian of note who pushed this crap was Augustine. And he dabbled with a lot of equally stupid pseudo Gnostic ideas before he became a Christian (Manicheaism, Platonism) and brought them into the church. They were part of his intellectual makeup, unfortunately.

Everything I mentioned earlier is Jewish too (Enoch, Dead Sea, Jubilees) - but real Jews, that is. Before they brought a blood curse on themselves and killed their own King. Anything you get from these people afterwards is demonic. And I don't mean that symbolically or metaphorically. I mean literally.

I went from cucked Christian to gnostic to based Christian thanks to Augustine and Aquinas. Gnosticism (and Christian Identity) is appealing because it addresses things that pop Christianity simply doesn't because the topics are too offensive in modern culture to be mentionable. Without an inquisitive and logical nature Christianity profits you nothing that atheistic materialism can't provide. Do you honestly believe nominally calling yourself a Christian means anything to God if you don't even try to understand Him. Sethians being the Sons of God is perfectly in line with the rest of the Bible where God Himself chooses and blesses a special people to Him.

Underrated post. People forget to read things in context. Perhaps we should undertake a philological analysis of Genesis as polemic.

What does CI address that's appealing?

12 “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and ==I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord.==

Why are they larping as gods for?