Orthodox Church of Ukraine

The thread wasn't derailed, just no one was responding to you. Probably because either they don't care, or they don't share your enthusiasm for the schismatics.

Onother parish of the MP joined the OCU yesterday, the first of the Chrernihiv region, North Ukraine, to do so. So far, about 80 parishes of the MP have joined the OCU in those few days.
risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/confessional/orthodox_relations/74324/

As someone who seeks to begome, Irenaeus' view on the situation makes a lot of sense to me.

Is it true that some Orthodox are becoming concerned about the EP acting more and more like a sort of "Eastern Pope"? How well-founded is that fear?

This is from the pan-Orthodox council of 2016. Irinej have signed this too.
In Orthodoxy there's no Papal supremacy neither a protestant coalition of churches.
We're somewhere in the middle.

I don't think so, the Media is more powerful than any patriarch or emperor could ever dream to be. Will to power religious leaders are a symptom, not the disease itself.

The official enthronement of Met. Epiphanius next month
ukrinform.net/rubric-society/2621386-enthronement-of-metropolitan-epiphanius-to-take-place-in-early-february.html

The Tomos

Attached: 50267773_1974090296021278_1766859862362292224_n.jpg (716x960, 123.07K)

what justification does russia give for schisming? people here seems to be taking the side of EP and Ukraine

They haven't given any and that's the more troubling. It would be more understandable if they would cut the communion with Pat. Bartholomew alone, that has happened many times in the past, Patriarchs stop commemorating each other to show discomfort. But Moscow tried, unsuccesfully, to force a wide scale schism in all the Orthodox world. They literally forbid Russians to visit Mt Athos (most just go anyway). If that wasn't enough, they try to pass this to the people by spewing hate and fake news, especially to the American new converts. Their behavior is totally unacceptable for Orthodox Christians the last few months.

What's your affiliation? You sound like CIA.

6 Awkward Questions to OCU Creators

Persecution, Church Seizures, and Vandalism Ramp Up in Post-Tomos Ukraine

Attached: vandalized-church.jpg (300x399, 19.5K)

continued

orthochristian.com/118649.html

I don't have time now but i'll answer the first question. I'll try to answer all of them later.

Everyone was invited in the coucil with formal letters so those who didn't show up should take responsibility for his own actions, that's was not the coucil's fault. Moscow indeed forbid the UOC-MP to attend (and that shows a lot) but two of it's bishop went nonetheless. Even so, after the official Tomos was given, UOC-MP parishes are joining the OCU one after another as you can see in the interactive map i posted above (around 80 in a few days, 1 more since i refresh it this morning). In 1-2 years the UOC-MP will consist only of the Russian diaspora in Ukraine (15%).
Wrong, it has the most parishes in Ukraine. Those parishes are joining OCU now as we already said. This graph shows how the Orthodox were distributed.
Now with the KP and UAC combined and the the parishes that swich from the MP to OCU every day, the OCU is by far the largest Orthodox jurisdiction in Ukraine. In a few years it will be bigger.

Attached: Orthodoxy in Ukraine.jpg (626x550, 51.81K)

Fake news btw

Attached: 871.png (614x473, 14.77K)

ROCOR was in schism for nearly a century, not recognized and rersecuted primarly by Moscow when the Moscow Patriachate pledged allegiance to the Communist party. Moscow was also in schism for many years when they declared autocephaly alone somewhere in the 15th century iirc, yet we accepted them back just fine. And lets not talk about Peter the Great that dissolved the Patriachate in 1700 and replaced it with a synod ruled by some bureaucrat until it was re-established by Stalin in 1943. I don't think they have any high ground to scold others about succession. Temporal schisms in Orthodoxy are to be healed and not to be used as weapons against other Orthodox. Real schism can only occur when the differences are dogmatic and not political.

Attached: 1024px-Гости_и_постояльцы_в_«Здравнице_имени_генерала_Врангеля»_в_Белграде.jpg (1023x721, 315.68K)

The 3rd question is so stupid i should just ignore it but anyway
Reminded me of this smuggie. The burden of schism falls to the one who tries to force it. Pat. Bartholomew still commemorates Kirill and just ignore all insults from him because he's literally the EP and he knows that you can't cut the Epharistic Communion for some political reasons.

Attached: 1487018974381.jpg (907x849, 166.21K)

4
When he was the only canonical head of the Ukrainian church yes, but after the unification coucil the church elected another Metropolitan to be the head and now we acknowledge him. Onufry was also called with a formal letter to take part in the coucil and be a candidate for the throne but he knew of course that he wouldn't be chosen because the MP is minority in Ukraine. Also refusing to take part in a coucil has canonical consequences in Orthodoxy but that's another story.

Talking of changes on opinions, Onufry was one of those who were asking for autocephaly in Ukraine, what happened in those years? I guess some have free pass to change their opinions and some don't.
en.mediaua.com.ua/2701-the-primate-of-the-uoc-moscow-patriarchate-onuphrius-in-1992-he-played-for-the-autocephaly-of-the-ukrainian-church-the-uoc-kp-published-documents-photo

The documents of Onufry asking for autocephaly are here.
Onufry never gave an explanation on why he changed his support for autocephaly when asked, actually, when i tried to find old articles i've seen about it in some sites, the page was just taken down kek.
ec-patr.org/deltiotypou/ukraine/aitima-aftokef-1-3-Nov-1991.pdf
ec-patr.org/deltiotypou/ukraine/SynUkr1991.pdf
ec-patr.org/deltiotypou/ukraine/aitima-b-aftokef-ukr.pdf

Attached: 3.jpg (793x338 54.59 KB, 92.78K)

5
Another weak argument. Tell me one time in the history of Christendom that politics were not involved? The church in a part of the community, of course it will be involved in our everyday life. Maybe if the MP had said a world of comfort to Ukrainians, a call to stop the war or any prayers to for the souls of the dead soldiers instead of just blessing Russian weapon all the time, Ukrainians wouldn't be so pre-occupied with it. Also Moscow has some guts to accusing politicians merging with the church when their Patriarchate was literally created by the KGB to boost the soviet's morale, when for 300 years before that they were ruled by the empire's bureaucrats since the time of Peter the Great kek. Considering they were Christianized somewere in the 10th century, for how long are they Orthodox anyhow?

Attached: blessed5.jpg (700x400 99.28 KB, 79.69K)

Tl;dr, schismatic churches eventually schism into smaller schismatic churches

I'm surprised how this isnt so obvious to many

Amen brother. This alone is the truth of the matter.

It's actually the opposite since about 10-15.000.000 souls who used to be in schism re-entered the church again. And if you consider that those people stayed loyal to Orthodoxy for 30 years even though they were in schism and forgotten by the rest of the Orthodox world (in a country that Unia has also traditional presence), we can say that we're talking about very faithful people and not lukewarms. Add to them the Mayan people that entered Orthodoxy after the mass convertions that occurred there a few years ago, we can see that the Orthodox church is rapidly growing, both in numbers and in quality. The events with Russia may be unfortunate but there's no not any real schism, people who use that word all the time don't now what it means. Schisms only happen for dogmatic reasons and it takes two parts to validate it.

Everything's gonna be fine i believe it.

I also should mention the Albanian Orthodox church that has become from literally non existent in Albania to 17-20% of the population there in only 30 years.

I received this today from my godmother, unprompted. Telling me they're attending a different church several hours away over this. I have yet to respond. This comes after I haven't seen them since December 9th, nor even spoken to them.

link: fatherjohn.blogspot.com/2018/10/whats-going-on-in-ukraine-part-1.html?m=1&fbclid=IwAR0PJo_wV-fvWa4aO9e7Qa2ODxO4SPmOPRfhoARPa7LenQufKCeKjVXiE4M

Attached: 50089386_230276087912359_4345893032466317312_n.png (837x960, 1.55M)

The parishes of the MP that've join OCU now reached 100. Most from center and western Ukraine while in eastern Ukraine majority seems to want to stay with the MP.
unian.info/society/10414779-some-100-parishes-of-former-uoc-mp-join-new-orthodox-church-of-ukraine-media.html

An online town hall meeting will take place in two days from now about the issue of Ukraine's autocephaly.
You can send your questions online or live by phonecall.
archons.org/townhall?fbclid=About The TownHall

Attached: TownHall.png (1920x1080, 1.9M)

Some updates

More parishes join the newly formed Ukrainian church every day.
euromaidanpress.com/2019/01/30/transition-of-parishes-to-the-newborn-ukrainian-orthodox-church-democratic-or-not/?fbclid=IwAR2t-zkWiyoLSZryNSe-Ho1KOcKw5xxFQ3lxCDlzg_ct57ayTsR0zvJr8-o

Attached: p3.png (1023x344, 68.09K)

All parishes in one of Lviv districts join new Orthodox Church of Ukraine

unian.info/society/10427481-all-parishes-in-one-of-lviv-districts-join-new-orthodox-church-of-ukraine.html?fbclid=IwAR0snUXZ4TfF2eekskRfrFeaMpbmqVHPvPWJQSZVhILzAcExCQjnrmISMD0

Abbots from Mt. Athos monasteries Vatopedi and Xenophontos, Ephraim and Alexios, will attend the enthronement of Met. Epiphany in Ukraine.
This is probably in responce of emerging fake news articles saying that the elders of Mt. Athos are against Ukraine's autocephaly.
orthochristian.com/119045.html?fbclid=IwAR3FerFJAEr8IwAYLit3uMzkzVQQ-OhOISfpbe4WgIzfI7uoRRbioi-8AbI

Lastly, yesterday in Russia was the celebration of 10 years after the enthronement of Pat. Kirill
For anyone who's still having doubts, listen to what Putin says at 3:48 about Kirill and think again why did the Ukrainians wanted their own autocephalus church.

Attached: 6b3bce499831dc5eebf9e7c689bea84c36576e0e6ea5e911dcd7bdb66f7ebbd7.gif (356x216, 1.8M)

...

Glory be to God

The political psyops against Russia lately are pretty intense. May God protect them (and all of us). Even that Fatima thread reminds me all over what Russia is up against.. not just political tricks, but the whole arsenal of deception.

Georgian Orthodox Church reply to threats by Moscow (google translate)

patriarchate.ge/geo/საქართველოს-საპატრიარქ-4/
cerkvarium.org/ru/novosti/pomestnye-tserkvi/srochno-v-gruzinskoj-tserkvi-otvetili-na-shantazh-rpts.html?fbclid=IwAR3WFxjEPYMdHWZ-pw6J8FfDzc4lo5rrrmF1TbiHytKyraO9NstiPbSfb54

Well it's an informative thread. I intent to keep it up for updates and to tackle fake news.
Better than the "what did God mean by this" and "what denomination should i try" threads

oh you mean the same liberal organization of blowhards that gave a humanitarian award to the governor of new york that just passed the abortion bill?
i better listen to them

Ukrainian schismatics interrupting an Orthodox Divine Liturgy thanks CIA-tiggers

The archons main goal is supporting the EP and the religious freedom of all Christians around the world. They have nothing to do with politics. The governor was awarded in 2016 for his support to the Orthodox community in America. The abortion bill was passed this year and of course, the archons condemned it.
archons.org/-/condemn-ny-abortion-law

I'm sure that you know all that stuff i'm just answering it to give an example of how some people are trying to divide and destroy the Orthodox church with fake news and propaganda. But it's all in vain, the Orthodox church has go through worse and survived.

Can I ask you a question ? Who is better the Cia-tiggers or the KGB-Jews ?

For the record, here we can see a group of Ukrainian nationalists tagged as "schismatics" as a way to dehumanize all Ukrainian Orthodox

The Russian are always labelling every Ukranian extremist as a schismatic, as a way to dehumanize the new Ukranian Church.

Well there is a network of "religious news" agencies that have taken up the task to spew hate and division in the church. Together with an army of fake profiles on social media.
Orthochristian and Union of Orthodox Journalists are the most well known.

Yeah, there was a article in Orthochristian that said that the Autocephaly of Ukraine was done in Borgia Style, I can understand being against the action of EP but these guys apparently only know how to hate the people against them and follow a blind love for those that are in favor of their views.

I have no personal resentment against OrthoChristian but it's literally "fake news", tabloid-tier "journalism". I'm grateful that orthodoxie.com exists (not all the articles are in English though, but I'm French so I don't have an issue with that at least).
There is already a great lack of charity and humility between the EP and MP, and having organizations like this run around only worsens things. This is not what Christianity is supposed to be.

A lot of people were suspicious of the EP to begin with. This just confirms it. It won't stop now.

Do you have a single fact to back up that claim?

Neither, but considering the KGB doesn't exist the CIA-ńiggers are worse. They already admitted to causing the civil war, and a (((Council on Foregin Relations))) member (pic related) was just awarded a medal from the new Ukrainian Patriarch.

Attached: devine2.jpg (412x549, 26.83K)

Believing the KGB suddenly disappeared, after the Soviet Union, that's kinda innocent. And funny that you have mentioned that the new Ukranian Patriarch has awarded a (((Council on Foreign Relation))), when the Russian Patriarch awarded the leader of the (((Communist Party))) Gennady Zyuganov (Pic related).

Attached: Gennady_Zyuganov_2018-11-19.jpg (792x1062, 193.11K)

So what did Gennady Zyuganov do that was bad? Did he arm radicals to induce bloody regime change?

Being part of the most anti-religion ideology, whose members destroyed the Orthodox Church where they could touch, promoted their anti-christian values to around the World, isn't that a little bad? Or does he need to be from the west, to be considered a bad person?

NUDIST MASTURBATING MESSIANIC CHRISTIANS for a JEW-FREE PALESTINE MINISTRIES Inc.

Please snap out of your out of touch prespective. How is the CIA involved in any of this? Americans and EU support the EP on this for their own reasons of course, but that has nothing to do with the EP actions or the Orthodox church in Ukraine and in general.

Let me ask you this, Ukraine was Russia's playground for 300 years. How did they manage to make an Orthodox country to 70% Orthodox, of which 40% was in schism and only 19% (the Russian diaspora basically) members of the "canonical" church? Let alone having 3 different church structures in the country. People were getting sick and they either turn Catholics or Protestants, or abandoning faith all together. For 30 years everyone was asking for a solution and nobody give a damn, especially Russia that only cared for the Russian diaspora there because for them Orthodoxy is only a cultural imperialism tool. The Ecumenical Patriarch was begging them to find a solution themselves and he was also ingored. Finaly he took it up on himself and unified the shattered pieces to one church. What would you do if you were in his place?

Zyuganov is the guy who has "canonized" Stalin as an Orthodox saint. Members of his party are crossing themselves and kissing his icons, total madness.

Here i found it. Check out 1:17. Total madness and paganism.
That's not Orthodoxy

Lord have mercy!!! And there are people who claim that Russia is the last christian bastion, if what these people say is true, this is truly the end of times. The Soviet Union has fallen, but (((their))) strength has not diminished. I pray to God that in the future Russia can be released of the chains of the devil, but this isn't not looking that it'll be done anytime soon.

You are by far the worst shill I have ever come across. Truly embarrassing, m8.

Tomos on vassalage: where Orthodox Ukrainians are herded to

"When did it become appropriate or acceptable for Christian dialogue and Orthodox discourse to descend into such darkness? Though what should one expect from some who use the Body and Blood of Christ as a bargaining chip in negotiations"

"The motivation of His All-Holiness, like a sincere father who cares equally for all his children, was to offer compassion and bring comfort to the millions of Orthodox who found themselves outside of the canonical Church. The rapid opposition and smear campaign against him serves only to show the true character and now not so hidden agenda of his detractors"

"The Moscow Patriarchate has often done whatever it wanted: from granting “autocephaly” where and when it wanted without regard or any canonical basis to do so; to unilaterally establishing autonomous churches; to encroaching on the canonical territory of other local churches; to undermining and trying to disrupt and quietly sabotage pan-Orthodox dialogue and synodality"

"Time is not on the Moscow Patriarchate’s side. The torqued rhetoric will fall into obscurity and eventually be forgotten. In fact, one has to wonder what the marginal benefit to the MP’s propaganda is at this point – are they attracting new supporters or simply speaking into an online echo chamber?"

theorthodoxworld.com/exclusive-with-ukraines-autocephaly-the-moscow-patriarchate-shows-its-true-face-to-the-world/

Oops sorry i didn't meant to quote you

“As of today, that is, literally within a six-week period, at least 204* parishes have joined the Ukrainian Orthodox Church,” she said during the Conciliation Council of the chairs of factions and parliamentary committees on January 4"

“According to statistics, and due to the communities’ willingness, thousands more parishioners and religious communities will have joined it by the end of this year,”

orthodoxianewsagency.gr/foreignnews/over-200-parishes-of-former-uoc-mp-join-new-orthodox-church-of-ukraine/

*that was few days ago, now the parishes are over 220

I'm also reading that Russians are ignoring Kirills schism and will travel to Mt. Athos again this year regardless.
May the Orthodox Russians send a strong message to their leadership who is trying to isolate them from the rest of the Orthodox world for political reasons. The Athonite monks and the Ecumenical Patriarchate have stated that Russian are always welcome in Athos.

It's tempting to be frustrated as an American, but maybe ROCOR has a reason to still exist. All churches deals with the sins it must, but Moscow seems especially bad coming out of this.

Things are really not that bad as Moscow trying to make them to be. In 1-2 years they themselves would have accept the autocephaly.
Even though this was a huge blow to their narrative that all slavs are one people under the wing of Holy Russia.

Cyprus comes forth to openly support Ukrainian Orthodox Church
foxnews.com/world/cyprus-orthodox-church-backs-ukrainian-churchs-independence

After Cyprus, Romania's church takes official stance regarding Ukraine
basilica.ro/en/holy-synod-examines-ukrainian-ecclesiastical-issue-at-first-2019-working-session/

jej not even literal redditors shill for the EP and the muh Russia boogeyman narrative as hard as the OP and the glow in the darks ITT

Attached: AA522B5A-4148-4488-8271-00656CBE5F80.jpeg (991x671, 86.28K)

unian.info/politics/10451181-cyprus-church-condemns-russia-s-aggressive-policy-toward-orthodox-church-of-ukraine.html
"The priests note that the representatives of the Russian Church had the opportunity to come to the Council and state their position openly and negotiate a dialogue, but this was never done, therefore, they did not have the right to ignore the Council and interfere in the OCU's affairs, and they shall not have such right in the future,"

>“This process is gradual, and I adhere to the position that we must not measure this with time and quantity. This process should be gradual, peaceful, voluntary. The basis is not quantity but the absence of conflict or war. We have no right to incite another religious front in Ukraine. We have enough war in the east. If we open the religious front inside the country, then this can end very sadly for the Ukrainian state. […] There is no need to take into account the figures and set chronological frames,” the primate of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine said.
theorthodoxworld.com/about-400-uoc-mp-parishes-joined-orthodox-church-of-ukraine-metropolitan-epiphanius/?fbclid=IwAR2G5UtUCgewL0h20oBxpQ2E9fZzQ7P3lQzF6dsgCDDSzgCjl4TsExSfLs8

“Of course, we need to negotiate. This statement only came last week. We will discuss everything. We are ready. And it will be a mirror step, because a vicariate has already been created in the territory of the Romanian Church for Ukrainian parishes where they pray in Ukrainian. Why not give Romanians the same opportunity?”
romfea.news/metropolitan-epiphanius-i-am-sure-the-romanian-church-will-recognize-our-autocephaly/

...

...

It seems that the Slavic Patriarchs are trying to deepen the schism, not just East vs West, but now Slav vs The Ecumenical Patricate.

Attached: 44942062_736992443308700_8771790774397304832_n.jpg (833x960, 132.71K)

Relevant meme

Attached: 2019_03_10_035023.png (663x425, 409.66K)

Serbia and Antioch are Russia's puppet churches. It's a shame for the Orthodox church to submit in political pressure, even if for Antioch is a life and death issue.

The Serbian Patriarch basically said that any Serbian can do whatever he wants, either stay in communion with Constantinople or not. Which is a trully ridiculus potition considering it came from the synod. He probably knows that what he's doing is wrong but on the other hand he don't want to piss off Russia. Propaganda tabloids like the orthochristian are trying to take it even further and make it a Greek world vs Russian world schism. I see a purge coming soon in one way or another.

What are they schisming over?

Ukraine. An 100% political issue.

Are the Jews behind this?

Nah

Russia is upset that Constantinople gave autocephaly to Ukraine. Originally Ukraine was under the jurisdiction of Russia. The Russians will claim and cry "muh CIA-ÑIGGERS" and the Greeks will cry "muh KGB patriarch". Both are technically right, the US under Obummer has admitted to staging a coup in Ukraine, igniting the civil war. The new Ukrainian Patriarch even awarded a medal to the former head of the CIA (I forget his name, but he is on the Council of Foregin affairs and is an expert in regime change). Patriarch Kirill used to work for the KGB, just like the absolute Mad Vlad Putin.
Greeks say Ukraine has the right to autocephaly. Russia says that they also have the right to autocephaly but they didn't ask Russia first and Constantinople didn't convene a council, ergo the ruling is illegitimate.

Makes you wish they had a higher authority to settle their disputes lol

This proves that Christianity isn't a religion, just a political tool by the state.

Christianity without the seat of st. peter - yes, that's a pretty succinct summation!

The seat of Peter is in Antioch.

Which is a huge lie because they did call for a council, one pan-Orthodox in 2016 and one for Ukraine, but Russians didn't show up in both.
That's what the seat of Constantinople does since the ancient times. The problem is that Russian church try to undermine that seat.

Sounds like everything will be fine.

Been down that road, papists, and it ends in disaster *cough*Francis*cough*.

Than by asinine logic, the capital of the Roman Empire is still in Rome and not Constantinople.

Maybe if yee proto-prots hadn't schismed, your conservative values would be in the West and the actual prots would never have created liberalism or communism. Sparing the whole world the evils of modernity we all have to suffer under. Also, get used to being in Rome. EPat. Bart will get the East back in communion with the West. If not during his reign, he will lay the ground work for his successor to do so.

Oh I'm laughing, bud.

Why do papists feel the urge to discess their papist rants in a totally unrelated thread?
Are papists the new fedoras? Open a thread and we can discuss there.

Didn't know Peter is a roman emperor.

It proves your argument invalid. The leader of Rome can move the capital of Rome. The leader of Christianity can move the capital of Christianity. It's not rocket science, friend.

I was contributing to the thread. Explaining the drama to the person that asked. I'm sorry you have such burning hatred for Jesus' Church and you need to virture signal about it. I'll keep you in my prayers, friend.

Do you know of any prayers that keep shitposters away? Makes some of those instead.