Spanking

Yeah you were never spanked and look at how you turned out. You're obviously full of pride.

If you don't, you're demonstrating hatred for the child in the sense that you're not giving them what's best. How can you read the proverb any other way?

Discipline is more important. This has been my opinion on the situation from both the Bible and life experience. You can spank the winnie the pooh out of a child and teach them nothing, or you can spare your hand from violence and have very well adjusted children.

Punishments that educate, have some prolonged effect, and possibly involve forcing the child to take positive steps to humbly right the wrong they have committed, are much more painful than simply getting your ass tanned, as are remembered for longer as a result. For instance, my dad always relates the story that when he kept on crying for chocolate when he was 4, his mom went and bought unsweetened baker's chocolate and made him eat it all. To this day he hates chocolate, also there was less complaining thereafter.

Also a way to inculcate good behaviour is to tell them before you go to a store that they aren't getting candy or a new toy, or a pet dog or whatever, and that if they try to make a scene then you're going to take them home immediately. Make them manage expectations in other words, also keep them away from technology until they are older, and limit it. Make them always come to dinner rather than eating some random place with no social element.

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1 Corinthians 13:4-8

Tell me again how love means "beating your child with a stick".

Should be avoided, but if the child won't listen then hitting them wont kill them.
Of course it should be done in discipline and love for the child, not out of anger, do not give Satan a foothold.

Bingo.

Also, yes "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he that loves him disciplines him diligently." It doesn't say "therefore use the rod frequently" but rather diligent discipline. See

Speaking from experience is not speaking with pride. How many children do you have?

Answer: do you think the proverb is just wrong?

Answer: how many children do you have?

Is the proverb wrong? Not for the time it was written, no. It was important to maintain strong discipline in a household that needed farmers and warriors. There is a time for everything and that time has passed.

The irony. You literally don't even get it either.

I'm not the guy who called you prideful, but I don't have any children

I gather that you don't think the proverb is a timeless truth. how do you justify that in light of 2 Tim 3:16?

Are you serious? Explain.

No I disagree; despite being on your side, you could actually make an argument from scripture because the phrase "he who spares the rod hates his son" is only half the proverb. But what you did implies something that is false, that the "times have changed" which is a modernist myth.

Proverbs 13:24
Emphasis mine

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Inspiration of God doesn't mean commandment. The Proverbs aren't commandments. Never have been, never will be.

It's not modernism. We live in different time, surely you can see that? It's why we don't have to worry about mixing fabrics anymore. Times change. If I'm allowed to wear poly/cotton blends and not circumcise my sons, then why would it be "modernist" to say I don't have to poke them with sticks?

Your're making the classic modernist/Liberal mistake of confusing Ceremonial Law with Moral Law. Yes, we can eat pork and shellfish and such, but that doesn't change morality. And the fact that you just referred to Proverbs as just "fortune cookie" advice, makes me think more and more that you are from r/christianity.

Think about it.
"He that blesseth his friend with a loud voice, rising early in the morning, it shall be counted a curse to him." Proverbs 27:14

So, do you wait until afternoon to say "God bless you" to a friend?

"Beat your child with a stick or you hate him" is not ceremonial OR moral law.

No, the reason you don't keep kosher is because Christians have a new covenant with God that supersedes the old one. It was revealed to St Paul that kosher laws didn't have a role to play in the new covenant and that's the only reason the controversy got settled. It has nothing to do with times changing.

Besides, the times never change, everything is in the same spiritual condition it always was. Surely you can see that?

Bad hermeneutics
The Bible is God's word, and remains profitable. If you spare the rod, you hate your child.

Yes, I would love you to say "God Bless you" to me in an obnoxiously loud voice early in the morning. /sarcasm

The Rod as a symbol of discipline is also utilized in Psalm 22 (or 23 if you're not Orthodox): "Thy rod and they staff, they comfort me." It's a reference to God utilizing both stern reproof/discipline (the rod) and gentle guidance when necessary (the staff.)

Denigrating a prophet of God is the clearest evidence of pride.

I already gave you the argument for why it is a part of the command to love your neighbor.

This is a false equivalency because it has been explicitly stated in scripture that those things have been done away with. There have been no such statements against spanking.

Give me one good spiritual reason to beat my sons.

Since you have no children, I will rightfully disregard anything you say when it comes to raising children.

If you don't they'll end up fools like you.

Do you have something that doesn't involve insulting me?

Please don't insult me when I said already that the most important part of the proverb is to discipline with diligence. Whether you do it with a stick, your open hand, or forcing them to eat soap for saying foul things, or if you get creative like I suggested in just ISN'T my buisness.

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If that's the most important part of the proverb, then why is this whole thread (and the parenting thread before it) focused solely on the part that says "if you don't beat your kid, you hate them"?

Because LARPers.

God has not seen fit to bless all with an equal intelligence. And

Yeah lets ignore the issue at hand and address the damage done to your massive ego.

Do you only visit oncologists who have had cancer themselves?

I wasn't prepared for that

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No, but at least I know an oncologist has studied cancer and been to medical school. Are you a teacher or child care professional or pediatrician?

I'm a seminarian. My life atm is centered around learning the Bible.

(nice digits)
That is a noble pursuit! But does it make you more qualified when it comes to children than, say, a parent of 6? Also, why are you leaving out the 2nd part of that Proverb - as pointed out?

Oops … meant

You want advice from those people? God forbid I let service industry workers tell me how to parent.

I'd like to actually hear what you have to say then about this proverb because I've been advancing the argument thus

I'd take someone who has been around 1000 children and studied them carefully before I'd take the advice of someone who has never seen a child in real life. Just sayin'.

Yeah, but I've known enough teachers and child care professionals (but not pediatricians, I'd take their health advice) to know that teachers and child care professionals are really great with their own children. Yours? Not so much

**And even then it's debatable whether they make actually good parents

The question of how to interpret the scripture is unrelated to your status as a parent. If I were making a claim about parenthood on my own authority you'd be right.

The whole chapter is a series of parallelisms
Proverbs
13:22-25 KJV — A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.
Much food is in the tillage of the poor: but there is that is destroyed for want of judgment.
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
The righteous eateth to the satisfying of his soul: but the belly of the wicked shall want.

The bad example comes first
How does he demonstrate hatred?

Thats contrasted with the good example
How does he demonstrate that?

I actually find the anti-spanking argument pretty persuasive from a libertarian NAP point of view, but it just doesn't reconcile with what the Bible says

Good stuff and thank you. I still won't spank my kids, but that's good stuff.

Let me point you to another proverb
Proverbs 15:5 KJV — A fool despiseth his father's instruction: but he that regardeth reproof is prudent.

I'm actually not anti-spanking, I have just been personally witness to parenting which I would say is "disinterested." Yes, the kid gets spanked, or worse, just given a time out, but it is perfunctory rather than diligent.

That's why I advised stuff like forcing a child who is demanding chocolate to eat baker's chocolate, i.e. stuff where if you do it, it means that one is being diligent with chastening.

At any rate, I think the most important thing is just to remember that every time they shirk discipline, it is a sign of childishness that must be got rid of somehow or other.

Agreed that discipline is not always a switch, and after a certain age it should never be

If you're in America, go to a Catholic priest.

Why do you say that, because they're boy spanking enthusiasts?

The Orthodox preists (Greek, Slav, or etc) are better. If you live in a city, there is most likely a parish near you.

Holy shit, user, what denom are you and are they all as funny as you at your church? This is twice that you've pulled out excellent bants

Southern Baptist B^)
Most everybody at my church is old, not so funny but very cozy

Come join the New IFB.

I'm not on board with some of the doctrine and my convention isn't too far gone yet

Spanking is too sexual.

No it isn't. If you think its sexual its because your screwed up porn made it seem so.

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Porn is born out of sexual thoughts. Spanking fetish was born because people found sexual excitement in spanking.

How do you feel about pooping?

Correct but you need background information.

Mate you can find sexual excitement in anything. Some people report sexual excitement in feet(>inb4 feet are sexual). Some people will find menial tasks lewd if they associate it with sex somehow.

Does anyone have proof spanking is good? I'm in favour of it btw.

Still, touching butt is universally accepted as more sexual than touching feet. Also, why would you risk bleeding your son's ass when even screaming at them is traumatizing enough. Unless your children are absolute punks I wouldn't recommend harming them physically. Not every kid is born to be drug dealers and cop killers.

Breasts are universally accepted to be "sexual" even though that's wrong.

At that point you're running to another argument, I don't want to follow into it.

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But breasts really are sexual. Female nipples are sensitive. Next you're going to say that the crotch isn't sexual. Are you a nudist or something?

It's just a side note, not an argument for you specifically, and I'm just pointing out that physical abuse can cause harm psychologically and physiologically. The point is, treat your kids as you should. Not every kid is the same, not everyone has the same emotional capacity to withstand high trauma and not everyone can be too spoiled. Every child is born with different conditions. I don't doubt that some kids need some whooping but not all of them do.

M E T O N O M Y

It also says we shouldn't wear clothes made of mixed fabrics, but we do and they are plenty useful.

I can't believe you just unironically tried to use one of the fulfilled ceremonial laws to justify ignoring the moral law. You have to go back, or at least lurk several months before posting again.

What do you even mean by this?
PLease explain.

There were rules for ceremonies relating to sacrifice in the old covenant and life under it.

These are now all obsolete with the New Covenant of Jesus. However, the moral law, such as the Ten Commandments, still applies.

Breastfeeding, giving birth and bathing your children are all far too sexual. We must abolish all physical contact between parent and child!

(checked)

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If you truly love your wife, you have to spank here from time to time, even if it's illegal.

Hot

Can do, and no it's really only illegal in theory, and hardly even so then. You want to know what's actually illegal? BDSM. Yep BDSM is felony assault and where I am people have gone to jail for grievous bodily harm and malicious wounding that they inflicted upon one another in an orgy. Yep, the unrighteous have cause to fear.

Not advocating it, and I don't want to mods to ban me for promoting scandal. But let's just say I've read some really messed up stuff in the case law, so you're hardly going to be named scoundrel of the year for smacking your wife's ass.