Matthew 5 vs Christ doing away with food prohibitions

I've spent about 2 days reading sceptic stuff criticizing the Bible and have yet to find anything substantial from them.

I found this "god hates shrimp" site and ended up reading and researching more about the dietary laws in the Bible. Here are the parts I find relevant:

Old Testament Jewish Food Prohibitions:
(Leviticus 11:1-47)
(Deuteronomy 14:1-21)

New Testament Doing Away With Food Prohibitions:
(Matthew 15:10-20)
(Acts 10:9-16)

So I think these "skeptics" are Bible illiterate idiots that couldn't be bothered to actually read the whole bible and to do any serious research. The only thing that is making my mind meltdown right now is Matthew 5…

"For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
(Matthew 5:18)

biblehub.com/bsb/matthew/5.htm

This part is quoted by skeptics a lot. I need help to understand it. I've thought about it in different ways and here are some interpretations I've come up with:

1. Jesus has already fulfilled the law so they can be changed now? I guess that would mean that in Matthew 15 and Acts 10 he must have already been crucified at that point?
2. The law is valid… except those parts that have been done away with, in which case, Matthew 5:18 is worded wrongly?
3. The Law means God's Law… which is not the same as that which is laid out in Leviticus. Leviticus is not entirely legit.

This is making me wonder if the Bible is in fact fallible. I am mostly leaning on the 2nd interpretation btw and thinking that Matthew 5:18 Jesus wasn't being serious there. I guess it's okay for someone to say "it's all valid except x, y, z" but the thing is he didn't immediately follow up saying that and then give the exceptions, the exceptions are given quite awhile later in Matthew 15.

I find it hard to believe that god actually wants us to restrict our diet. At least when I was studying Hinduism before when they suggest not to eat onions, they have an actual reason for it which is also supported by later scientific findings, which is that onions/garlic/etc. has a chemical in it that passes the blood-brain barrier, and makes your brain foggy; and you can confirm this by seeing how it's harder to meditate after eating such foods. There might be some kind of reason not to eat pigs and ravens and snakes and whatever else was prohibited under Leviticus 11:1 but I'm really not sure.

On a side note I'm starting to take notes about what Jesus says is sin. e.g. "Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ will be subject to the Sanhedrin." (Raca being an expression of contempt). I've been wondering for quite awhile what is sin or not and totally lost about the matter and I'm thinking I should start to take the word of Jesus above everyone else in the Bible, so I'm trying to study what he said in the red text parts, and weighing it against everything else, and plan on doing an experiment of living by Jesus's word alone (which a lot of it is all about not even having impure thoughts) and see what happens in my life as a result of abstaining from sin in this way. I want to see if I can be even better than those Pharisees.

Other urls found in this thread:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a1.htm
ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/what-does-the-bible-teach-about-clean-and-unclean-meats/infographic-which
amazingdiscoveries.org/C-deception-unclean_animals_pig_fish_mammals
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jellyfish_as_food
amazingdiscoveries.org/C-deception-diet_unclean_clean_law_Bible
amazingdiscoveries.org/clean-animals-human-diet-unclean-animals-bible-health-laws
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

The Lord is referring to the 10 commandments.

Father literally gave a homily about this today.

Timothy 4:3 warns us not to trust people saying foods are unclean.

Tbh I have been in two different churches and literally every church I go to, every single time, it literally on topic with answering exactly what's going on in my mind the day before and the time leading up to me going there. Like I walk into a Church and they're always talking about what was on my mind. Synchronicity like crazy.

So tell me what did you learn about it?

I like your answer but if you can provide citation supporting it please?

Why not? It seems like a good experiment and one that I could learn from.

In sorrow I start, in sorrow I will return, but in the meanwhile I might obtain some clarity. Primarily I am thinking about changing my thoughts btw, I'm not so much concerned about my actions or mimicking the outward stuff, but rather just not sinning in my thoughts. No anger, no covetousness, no lust, no condemnation, etc. in my thoughts. I want to see what happens when I restrain all these bad thoughts. Personally I think it will be easy to accomplish and that I won't fail. I just hope that I obtain spiritual ascent from practicing it, because, if I do it and no changes come about from doing it, I will probably give it up.

Are you talking about The Apocrypha?

Well, if you go by the Catechism of the Catholic Church, "the Law" in this case is a reference to natural law - which is, of course, included in the New Law. The Old Law - Leviticus and the like - is fulfilled in Christ, and therefore isn't necessary (it was only there to prepare the Jews for the coming of the Messiah, and could be - aside from the natural law within it - ignored) once the Messiah arrived. Our Lord is saying that the natural law is the same, even though He has come to fulfill the Old Law.
Sauce on these claims: vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a1.htm

Oh well that's good news to hear as I am very heavily influenced by natural philosophy.

When you say "The Old Law is fulfilled in Christ" and so "isn't necessary" what kind of attitude then should I have to the Old Law?

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There are some arguments that the laws are for health purposes. Like, there are certain 'legalist' denominations (or heresies, depending on who you ask) of Christianity that argue this. The Armstrongite Churches of God, various British-Israel or Christian-Identity groups, Seventh Day Adventists, some Messianic Jews or Hebrew Roots groups, etc. The arguments they give do sound pretty reasonable. Basically, the prohibited animals are mostly scavengers who can live off of carrion and diseased flesh, and tend to be full of parasites, like pork with trichinosis. Sea creatures like lobsters and crabs are also bottom-feeders that feast on sewage. Basically they are nature's garbage disposal system and not fit for consumption.
An example of this line of reasoning:
ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/what-does-the-bible-teach-about-clean-and-unclean-meats/infographic-which
Having said that, the New Testament does seem to say that they are okay to eat now. There are various other interpretations that try to explain that away, but I don't know how plausible they are. They don't seem to be the most straightforward reading of the text. And now that we have modern refrigeration, ovens, etc., a lot of things that may have once been dangerous are not so dangerous any more. I don't think Jews regard their dietary restrictions as having a health basis, but just see it as another way God keeps them separate from gentiles. Muslims have some similar restrictions, and from what I've heard they do see them as healthy to follow.
So basically, my understanding is the restricted foods may or may not be unhealthy, and almost certainly were risky to eat in ancient Israel, but there is no spiritual requirement to avoid them.

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That's literally what we are called to do as Christians; we should strive to be like Christ in every action of every day.

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Converting sodomites would be preferable but failing that is killing them okay? They have a habit of raping men in prisons and molesting children and being the primary carriers of most of the STDs and doing all kinds of damage to society that one would wish to prevent. If human laws changed where it became okay to execute sodomites could I partake in the great cleansing of the country?

I read the Bible start to finish but… OT first and then NT. Maybe I should start again but NT, OT, and then NT again a second time for good measure.

Seriously.. everyone from Orthodox/theosis, Catholic teaching, and even boomer evangelicals with their WWJD signs know this much.

How do people like this end up here? This is among the most basic parts of Christianity.
With our own strength alone, it is. With God, we can triumph, though complete and final triumph comes only in following Jesus through death and resurrection.

Makes sense but what is the health risk involved in eating rabbits?

Also something I could add to what you wrote (after looking at your picture there) is a lot of the animals on the right are higher up the food chain (carnivores) and thus there is a higher bio-accumulation of toxins involved in eating them.

Trying to become God is luciferianism and evil.

I wasn't sure, so I searched and found this:

amazingdiscoveries.org/C-deception-unclean_animals_pig_fish_mammals

Oh wow. Started reading that link of yours. This is making me think Leviticus was not so arbitrary as I was originally thinking.

Aren't there some sea creatures that live only on phytoplankton though that should be okay for to us eat that wouldn't be allowed under Leviticus? I know most shrimps, molluscs, etc. are detrivores that eat everything including fish poop and rotting flesh and so on but there are I think some species that strictly live on phytoplankton.

What about Jellyfish for instance?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jellyfish_as_food

amazingdiscoveries.org/C-deception-diet_unclean_clean_law_Bible

Just finished reading second page of this and onto the third part. Starting to wonder if I should observe these things or not.

Christ is not just God, Christ is also the perfect man. It's completely indisputable that we're called to imitate Him in that capacity, though we're not good enough to do that on our own.

amazingdiscoveries.org/clean-animals-human-diet-unclean-animals-bible-health-laws

Here he seems to suggest a diet of fruit and grains only is best. I used to eat like that – for several years straight. I was very sick in that time. I am not sure how seriously I can take this site.

Oh boy. There is only one instance of Lucifer (The Morning Star) mentioned in the Bible. You are wrong to conflate Lucifer with anything evil. You are heavily influenced evidently by some recent deceptions that only started like the last few hundred years.

Also Venus is not exactly the most evil of deities.

Do you wear an apron by any chance?

I will clarify that for you, the website is run by Seventh Day Adventists. They teach that we should follow the food laws God gave us in the Bible, but they then go beyond that and recommend people eat vegetarian/vegan, because Ellen White said so. I would just take whatever useful information you find and ignore the vegetarian stuff.

Trying to become a "god" in your own right is. Actually getting to know God and having him rub off on you is literally the Christian walk. What do you think baptism is?

"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." - Gal 3:27

"Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." - Matt 11:29

" You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - Matt 5:48

" A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher." - Luke 6:40

And if you can't do that, at least follow those who are trying:

"Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ." - St. Paul, 1 Cor 11:1

"Whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked." -1 John 2:6

"For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps." -1 Pet 2:21

"To put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness." - Ephesians 4:22-24

"Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God." - Ephesians 5:1-2

Hmmmm.

Btw, I've been thinking in the last few days about "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life". (2 Corinthians 3:6)

Should I interpret that to mean that we should not get too caught up in the fine details of what is being said in the Bible and instead "get the gist of it"?

e.g. of how I might apply this; regarding the food laws maybe the details don't matter so much as the principle of "eat in such a way as you know to be conducive to good health".

Another example: when Jesus gives various examples of how we sin just with our thoughts, the general principle seems to be to not think unclean thoughts, and maybe the specific details given in the bible aren't too important?

…or would I be in error in thinking I have to extract the principles only and that I actually should observe forms, customs, each and every specific example given, etc?

Also I think, just my attitude, but I feel like the holy spirit is present with me to do the work of making me perfect and filling me as to the details. I think I need the principles from the bible but the guidance of the holy spirit to deal with the details of life.

The Law didn't disappear. It's still right there in the Bible, and if you really want to you can follow it. But there's no salvation in it. The Law won't save you, so why bother with it?

So are you going to share it or just brag?

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Read the context
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these COMMANDMENTS and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commandmensts will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

As in the 10 commandments/the moral law

Christian - noun. A follower of Jesus Christ
Go back to Zig Forums rabbi

It's taken me years of thinking about it and constantly reading, but I think the entire point of the sermon on the mount - where most of what Jesus considers sins come from - are not so much about the actual sins but about Jesus letting everyone know that He has authority over scripture, the law, and the prophets; ergo, He is God in the flesh. He's clarifying the commands that God Himself gave unto people. God told the newly formed nation of Israel that in justice, it was an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Jesus, however, told the people that if someone slaps them on the cheek, they should turn the other also. I think the entire sermon, including the bit on the laws and the prophets, follow this theme. Jesus said that not one word of the law will be done away until all is fulfilled - and that He came not to destroy, but to fulfill. Further, in other parts of the Gospels, He again establishes His authority over the law and essentially says that the essence of the law is to love the Lord with everything and to love neighbor as one's self.

In short, I believe that by submitting to King Jesus and letting Him be our advocate by having us take on His righteous, perfect life, as well as letting Him take the punishment for our pitiful, rebellious life, then we fulfill the law through Him. Further, it is by honoring His commandments to love the Lord with all our might and our neighbor as ourselves that we may walk with Him.

You are not thinking.
Before the crucifixion and resurrection, the ceremonial law had not been fulfilled. Christ fulfilled the Law, which means that sillnoracticing the old ceremonial laws is the same as telling Him that His sacrifice wasn’t enough. Stop being willful.

One comment from the video though

This. Dispensationalism.

Dispensationalism is a terrible pro-kike heresy.

Deviant sexuality destroys the mind as well as the spirit.

Thou Shalt Not Kill, user
Are sodomites generally unclean? Of course. But so were you, before Christ entered your life. Do not forget that many of the saints, such as Augustine, Jerome, etc, lived, as the Church puts it, "loose lives" prior to their conversion (I heard once that Jerome practiced, as a young man, some of the homosexual behaviors of Roman youth - but I've never seen that cited, so it seems to be just a rumor). Convert them above all else; to kill them is to damn them forever, which isn't in your domain - if they continue in their sin, God Eternal shall damn them eternally. Protect the children, sure. But thou shalt not kill

I heard since they're reprobates who won't repent it's better to kill them early so they stop accumulating punishment in hell.

Well, some are reprobates, sure. But a great deal can be converted if you treat them with pity instead of the hate they are used to (especially in the United States, where prots yell at gays like Pharisees on crack). Disarm them with your pity for their sinful nature, preach to them, and maybe they repent.
If they don't, then they are reprobate, and they shall get what they get. It is a very sad thing, but it is unfortunately the eternity some poor souls choose. Still, however, it is their choice to sin, and it is your choice to sin. Again, thou shalt not kill - this is a part of the natural law. Sin cannot end sin - only Christ may do that.
I'm not a priest, of course, and if a Church document disagrees with me, I'll be more than happy to retract this. But my understanding is that the Church is against murder in all forms (abortion, euthanasia, capital punishment, and, yes, the killing of reprobate sodomites)

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