Protestant vs Catholic

Hunter Cooper
Hunter Cooper

I am Protestant thinking about converting to Catholicism.

Can some Protestant explain me briefly, why Catholics are wrong and you're right? I only know about indulgence selling.

Thing bothering me about Protestantism is truth relativism. If women are getting ordained now, maybe everything I believe in now will be obsolete in a few years.

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Other urls found in this thread:

apuritansmind.com/justification/the-early-church-and-sola-fide/
youtube.com/watch?v=PjvXbotd9Lw
youtube.com/watch?v=NG3QdH7Z74s
jesuswordsonly.com/books/175-pauls-contradictions-of-jesus.html

Anthony Harris
Anthony Harris

Can some Protestant explain me briefly, why Catholics are wrong and you're right?

The Bible can, why not read it instead ?

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Owen Jenkins
Owen Jenkins

Most urgently, protestantism is right and catholicism is wrong on soteriology. The sacraments are works and opposed to Ephesians 2:8-9 which is the basis for the doctrine of sola fide.

Relativism
Compare apples to apples, that's the same issue with Vatican 2.
If your protestant denomination is ordaining women, you are right to leave it. Evangelicalism is the least relativist because of it's doctrine of the inerrancy of scripture.

The very best way to judge Christian groups is by their fruits. Who correctly states the gospel in line with scripture, and is actually spreading it in obedience to the great commission? Evangelicals. That's the point of the word.

Charles Reyes
Charles Reyes

Thank you.
Ephesians 2:8-9
thought provoking for brainlet like me.
can you clarify
Compare apples to apples, that's the same issue with Vatican 2.
what are you talking about?

Kayden Parker
Kayden Parker

Relativism and postmodernism are present in the RCC as evidenced by Vatican 2

Hudson Brown
Hudson Brown

but it's not present among Evangelicals?

Brody Bennett
Brody Bennett

No. The basis for evangelicalism is a rejection of relativism. Evangelicals are identified by the doctrine of the inerrancy of scripture.

The result of the "fundamentalist" vs "modernist" controversy of the 20th century was the establishment of "Evangelical protestant" vs "mainline protestant".

Evan Watson
Evan Watson

I see, thank you very much.

Connor Diaz
Connor Diaz

apuritansmind.com/justification/the-early-church-and-sola-fide/

Ryan Sanders
Ryan Sanders

Please read "Grace & Justification: An Evangelical's Guide" by Steve Wood (Evangelical -> Catholicism) if you want to get a fair understanding of what the Church means by Faith & Works. The semantics in the words are different between the two Churches which causes a lot of confusion and disagreements.

Robert Thomas
Robert Thomas

The sacraments are works. They are vehicles of sanctifying grace.
that's the same issue with Vatican 2.
prot talking about church councils
Except not even a comma changed in the doctrine.
Who correctly states the gospel in line with scripture, and is actually spreading it in obedience to the great commission? Evangelicals
Ok I see you are baiting.
I wonder how America got Christian
Prove it faggot.

Lincoln Butler
Lincoln Butler

the sacraments aren't works (wtv that is)
Fixed.

Cooper Watson
Cooper Watson

works (whatever that is)
Outed as a biblical illiterate

Cooper Flores
Cooper Flores

Sorry if I don't know the latest meme in 21st century baptist "theology"

Eli Long
Eli Long

Implying America got Christian in first place

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Dominic Ortiz
Dominic Ortiz

the American continent its just the giant freemason Lodge in the middle of North America.

Brandon Phillips
Brandon Phillips

I just wanna say that Catholicism is no different from Pharisaic Judaism. I mean literally, the appeal to tradition to condone their unbiblical acts, the dress ups and funny hats and just their entire view of salvation is pelagian no matter how much you deny it. Paul says in Romans 5:1
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our LORD Jesus Christ,

Catholics don't have this. They fear every day of going to hell or at the very least burning in purgatory for X amount of years. It's why they have confession to get rid of mortal sins and go mass to get rid of venial sins. And don't even get me started on the mass. The Catholics believe that the mass is the same sacrifice on the cross that happened 2000 years ago. Yes, they're crucifying Christ a second time each week but use sophistry to try and hide it by saying that it's the same but not another one. Even if that was the case it would still violate Hebrews 10:1-3
1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming-not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins.

Ultimately, the Catholics don't have a distinction between the law and the gospel. To them the only thing that changed with Christ's ascension was that we just got new rules but nothing changed. We still need to offer up the sacrifice of the mass, we still need to do penance and to just show you how much uncertainty the papist have on their death bed they need to do last rites just in case they didn't get rid of every sin. If I haven't said it enough I'll say it again. CATHOLICS HAVE NO PEACE WITH GOD!

And this is only the tip of the iceberg you mentioned indulgences but that's not even the worse, they even believe Mary the be co-redemtrix. It's such a extremely high view of Mary that even the orthodox think it's insane. Literally, Google it. It's mariolatry.

I'm probably gonna get banned for this but If I do just know it's because I'm right.

Nicholas Diaz
Nicholas Diaz

Whoever wrote that shows that he lacks reading comprehension.

Brayden Thompson
Brayden Thompson

Sacraments are works of you go by the biblical definition of what a work is and not a man made version.

What do you think this means?
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about-but not before God. 3What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Romans 4:1-5

Brody Bailey
Brody Bailey

This is off-topic but I don't want to make a thread for this. Why do you believe that women cannot be ordained as priests and bishops in Catholicism and Protestantism? I read the common reasons why not, but I'm not convinced of them.

John Edwards
John Edwards

34women are to be silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Julian White
Julian White

Paul clearly says they shouldn't speak in church settings. He speaking specifically of liturgy, because there's no one else who should be talking like that in a church to begin with (it's not a cafeteria, after all.. which chatter all around, but a solemnity remembering Christ's death and resurrection).

Secondly, the priest serves as model of our Great High Priest in heaven. He's not a woman.

If it was all so acceptable, we would have surely seen any number of great women in the early serving in this capacity (Sts Mary, Mary Magdalene, etc). There's no evidence of this, despite the great honor given to these women. That should say something as well.

Lastly, there's nothing forbidding a woman to teach in general or be on missions (Paul was accompanied by the couple Priscilla and Aquila after all). And the home itself is sort of a "mini church", where the mother plays an important role in teaching her children in faith. Only a retard would silence women so much that she can't even teach her own children… but I think some misogynistic readings have gone this far. So the Church isn't historically on this extreme end either.

William Clark
William Clark

Bro I even gave you the reference in the first post that you scoffed at. Ephesians 2 talks about the role of works in relation to salvation.
Have you read Ephesians? You don't know what it says yet here you are insulting me.

You should read proverbs when you're done opening Ephesians for the first time

Proverbs 17:28 KJV — Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

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Andrew Cox
Andrew Cox

1 Timothy 2:11-15 KJV — Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Benjamin Rogers
Benjamin Rogers

Look at the state of the Episcopalian church and tell me women bishops was a good idea. Spoiler Alert you can't

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Cooper Lee
Cooper Lee

America
Christian
Pick one. America is a living proof for me that protestantism is false.

Justin Miller
Justin Miller

Breathing is a work too.
If you guys just wasted a minute reading the Catholic doctrine on this, but no it's better to say shit just for the sake of shiposting.
I'm not even gonna repeat for the 99999x time the same thing we sua all over this board.

Ayden Gutierrez
Ayden Gutierrez

I am Protestant thinking about converting to Catholicism
I was in your shoes a few months ago (former Baptist) and am currently attending a Catholic Church. Here's my advice for you:
<research the history of Christianity (nearly all Protestants haven't done this or even care to, in my experience)
<research arguments in favor of Catholicism (again, Protestants never do this; instead, they'd rather circlejerk about misconceptions that are based in ignorance)
<when you get the time to spare, go on YouTube and watch Daily TV Mass' latest daily Mass
<if you're still interested in becoming Catholic after all that, attend a Mass in person and see how you like it
While they're a bit dated, here's some videos you might enjoy, by the way:
youtube.com/watch?v=PjvXbotd9Lw
youtube.com/watch?v=NG3QdH7Z74s
Truth does not fear investigation. I wish you the best of luck on your journey my friend, and fair warning: I can already see that my journey with Catholicism is going to be a very lonely road ahead. Just recently, I went to my Prot Bible study and told them for the first time of my attending a Catholic Church, and they didn't take it well… "Catholics worship saints" this, "working their way to Heaven" that, "Satan may be leading you to the Church", etc.. Rather disgustingly, one of the group members closed in prayer with "It wasn't [the group leader] speaking tonight, but God.", to which the group leader agreed… pure heresy. Don't be surprised if you lose friends over your pursuit of the truth, but your faith should always come before other people's feelings.

Samuel Turner
Samuel Turner

I was talking about the evangelisation of Mexico and below.
And I totally agree with you. The USA are the proof Martin Luther was wrong.

Camden Jackson
Camden Jackson

And what country better demonstrates a true Christian population?

Easton Brown
Easton Brown

Catholic is some weird kind of Marian cult that evaluates Mary as equal or superior to Jesus.

And it makes Mary ultra sexy and very Aphrodite-like, so it makes Christianity into a weird sex cult.

Lincoln Green
Lincoln Green

this entire post
W-what?

William Gonzalez
William Gonzalez

Your mind is already corrupted if you look at depictions of Mary in a sexual manner. She is admitedly made to look beautiful, but it's the kind of beauty that serves as a symbolic representation of goodness and purity. You are supposed to admire her as you would admire a beautiful rose. The explicit association of anything beautiful with sex is a symptom of our decadent times.

Nolan Fisher
Nolan Fisher

I hope you repent, I don't think even satan would venture to say what you say.

Zachary Gonzalez
Zachary Gonzalez

A simple "I don't know" would have sufficed but I'll tell you anyway. First of all. We know what Paul means when he says works, without the addition of the word law, because he defines it later on in Romans 9:11
11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad-in order that God's purpose in election might stand:
To Paul works is any form of human exertion. Whether good or bad and so to say sacraments are not included would be false. But oh, you'll say that sacraments aren't things we do ourselves but rather God working in use and because of that they aren't works. But read Philippians 2:12-13
12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed-not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence-continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
If you're going to say that because it's not us doing it But God doing it through us and so it's not a work then every good work humans do would not be a work and so the Catholic apologetic there fails.

Kevin Brooks
Kevin Brooks

Are you 15?

Chase Miller
Chase Miller

I honestly don't think Protestants actually live by Sola Fide. At least none of the cool ones.

All I have to ask is one question: Would you allow a gay orgy on the pulpit floor of your church (or any orgy, for that matter)? What would you say someone "assured you": "It's OK, they said they believe in Jesus"?

I'm going to assume you're a decent Christian and say this not a good situation and put a stop to it and tell them all to repent. Because you don't believe in mere faith alone yourself. We make value judgements about how "faith in God = fidelity to God" all of the time, and would be alarmed that anything like the above can come from a self-proclaimed Christians.

This is an extreme and unrealistic example, but think about it. Even Paul still gives TONS of moral advice. There must be more nuance to what he's saying than mere faith. Same with Christ. The BULK of the Gospels are instructions on how to live in the kingdom and serve God. Only the end is the crucifixion. Was all of the prior stuff just a waste of time?! Should the Gospels just be "Chapter 1: Jesus is born. Chapter 2: Jesus dies and rises." Of course not.

"Sola Fide" is a cheap slogan, but no self-respecting Christian actually lives it. Even the ones who kept yelling Sola Fide. Look at Steve Anderson. One minute he says Faith Alone, the next he's isolating himself from the world and telling everyone to repent.

Evan Hall
Evan Hall

You don't understand what sola fide means
It's a soteriological term

Anthony Wright
Anthony Wright

1/
Catholics believe salvation through works, not faith alone, which is opposite to Romans 3:24.

2/ They appeal to traditions like the Pharisees and focus on the works as in

3/ They don't allow priests to marry, which lead to all sorts of sexual misconducts in the church. But again God allows priests to marry even in the times of Moses (Lev 21) and what god wouldn't want his followers to produce more offsprings to worship him?

4/ pics. They pray to Mary and the saints, but Christ tells us to pray to Him alone

5/ They make statues and images of Christ and Mary, which was forbidden in the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:4-5)

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Charles Perez
Charles Perez

So now it's complicated and there's more theological hoops to jump through. Besides that, you're talking about a soteirology based solely on a few lines of Paul alone, without any context (and not even context to the rest of what he says.. like I pointed out about him giving moral instruction himself). Like I said, it's just a slogan.

Gavin Jenkins
Gavin Jenkins

That picture is shopped.

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Kevin Carter
Kevin Carter

I'll just add that I'm not a Catholic, and I understand why Luther revolted somewhat. Not all that he "protested" was biblical. He was angry about abuses.

But he jumped the shark with "faith alone". And started equating Christian Ethical Living itself with the abuses of the church of his day. God forbid these are the same. Why didn't he just leave it at that? He went completely radical with what "works" even meant. This is why he even considered getting rid of the Epistle of James himself. Not even Popes are this arrogant.. to singlehandedly "by fiat" declare what's canon or not.

Gabriel Hernandez
Gabriel Hernandez

He chucked out 7 of the OT books (although it was because he translated from a Hebrew text, and the Jews chucked those books out around the 5th century) and nobody complained, but that's because they didn't hear the OT read at Liturgy/Mass very often, if ever. But the Epistle of St. James is a big deal, since that's NT, and read substantially more often during Liturgy/Mass than any OT book.

Luke Parker
Luke Parker

You misunderstand what sola fide means. Read from the man John Calvin himself:
I wish the reader to understand that as often as we mention Faith alone in this question, we are not thinking of a dead faith, which worketh not by love, but holding faith to be the only cause of justification. (Galatians 5:6; Romans 3:22.) It is therefore faith alone which justifies, and yet the faith which justifies is not alone: just as it is the heat alone of the sun which warms the earth, and yet in the sun it is not alone, because it is constantly conjoined with light.
Antidote to the council of Trent
You see that truth faith is synonymous with good works and we don't call it once saved always saved but rather perseverance of the saints because we are not just given any faith but a persevering one.

Anthony Gomez
Anthony Gomez

No it's not complicated
Yes it is considering the whole of scripture
You are saved by faith
Soteriological means related to salvation. Didn't mean to give you a brain boo boo. You just redefined sola fide to mean moral relativism.

You are saved, then your fruits will prove it externally.

Lincoln Thomas
Lincoln Thomas

Before I begin I would just like to say that even James doesn't deny sola fide. Read James 2:23.

James 2 is talking about a justified person who is now fulfilling the fruits of his faith. You first have to understand the differences between justification and declaration.

First off lets start with 2 verse from the bible. First of all lets look at Romans 4:3 Here it talks about how Abraham was justified by faith now lets read James 2:21. Now to take both at face value would put you into a contradiction. If you really interpret both the same you will have to conclude what some Muslims even claim, namely that James is contradicting Paul. But they aren't talking about the same thing.

In Romans 4 we are discussing how one is "Made" righteous. This is proven by Paul's quoting Genesis 15, this was when he was first "made" righteous. Then we move on to James 2. Here when he says was not our father Abraham justified by works he isn't even referencing the same chapter as Paul IE genesis 15. He's quoting Genesis 22. This was when Abraham did his good work of sacrificing his son on the altar and thus having his justification "declared."

Now what is the difference between being declared righteous and being made righteous? Being made righteous is by faith "Alone." If it was by anything else then we will have something to boast about but not before God. Now this then leads people to think, who so we can sin but as long as we have faith we will be saved? Absolutely not! Remember what Philippians 1:6 says: he who began a good work in you will lead it to completion. And so to say someone had faith and then continues to sin would say that God is a lair and did not lead to completion a good work he started.

This is why one will later on be "declared" righteous. This means that the fruits and evidence of a lively faith will come. It is why after Abraham was actually "made" righteous is genesis 15 he then was being openly "declared" by his works in genesis 22.

Sebastian Evans
Sebastian Evans

I know what Calvin thinks. He teaches Sanctification accompanying Faith. Which is basically the same thing as any other decent Christian teaches, but he had to be jerk and create another rift in the church over mere semantics. He's biggest followers were some of the most widely known "moralists" of all time: The Puritans. This doesn't come from any "faith alone". It's holistic.. the whole process of our salvation, that is.

Asher Fisher
Asher Fisher

Soteriological means related to salvation. Didn't mean to give you a brain boo boo. You just redefined sola fide to mean moral relativism.
You're not giving me a "boo boo". I'm telling you to drop the cheap branding and be honest with yourself.

Landon Bailey
Landon Bailey

Your pic on Roman Catholicism, orthodoxy and Protestantism is shipped and the other pic about the church fathers could only be written by someone ignorant of the early church. It's not some unified thing and they heavily disagreed with one and other.

Jordan Collins
Jordan Collins

This is exactly what all reformed Christians believe. And it's insane to say that it's mere semantics that separate us. That one word "Alone" has huge implications. Without it you then are lead into the whole romist sacramental system. We are saying that justification is by faith "alone" and the accompanying good works are God's work in us, leading our faith to completion as per Philippians 1:6. To say that by our actions we can stunt God's process of completion is to our salvation in our hands. The good works we do are the by products of our faith. The result of our faith that is not alone in it's working.

Brayden Jones
Brayden Jones

If that was true, Orthodox and Catholics would be exactly the same. But they aren't. They are both sacramental, but there are different approaches here (for one, you won't find Orthodox making definitive statements about unbaptized infants going to hell). I'm not going to derail on all of this, but this is not an either/or situation.

Evan Morgan
Evan Morgan

No. What makes you say that? Are you outraged over me offering guidance, that might not align with your world view, to a fellow brother exploring his faith, or did my post somehow come off as immature?

Kevin Walker
Kevin Walker

Pretty sure he's outraged at you worshiping the Church of Harlot, queen of mysteries.

James Allen
James Allen

And it's insane to say that it's mere semantics that separate us.
I thought I should reply to this too. Maybe I am insane. But I meant that statement in a positive way. I'm getting tired of arguing with what are basically believers in Christ who want to lead good lives. These people aren't my enemies. I feel a kinship to them, no matter what denomination. And I don't mean this in a silly ecumenical way. But an agreement on core, fundamental principles. This is why some of these big rifts upset me… that in all cases, each side had a lot of Christians who were essentially trying to lead good lives the best they could. And they killed each other! What the hell.

Ian Garcia
Ian Garcia

She is admitedly made to look beautiful, but it's the kind of beauty that serves as a symbolic representation of goodness and purity.
She's a winnie the pooh semitic mother for christ sake, stop trying to make her look like winnie the pooh Aphrodite.
You are supposed to admire her as you would admire a beautiful rose.
A beautiful rose has thorn, dumbass.
And yet you worship Mary, the Whore of Babylon.

Thomas Jackson
Thomas Jackson

This is how heresies grow.

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

Camden Morris
Camden Morris

No, lol, the Protestant revolt was a revolt against God himself. There is no reconciliation of such recalcitrance and post facto bad theology.

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Jack Jackson
Jack Jackson

Protestant at least adheres to the Bible.
Catholics just worship pagan gods, and put in Isis/Aphrodite Idol.

Jordan Kelly
Jordan Kelly

Some fights over "heresies" are over minutia and fought by the superstitious. At least the early church fought heretics that truly mattered. On the very nature of Christ and the Trinity.

Aiden Phillips
Aiden Phillips

No, I think the Church is the heretic in worshiping Mary.

Levi Sanders
Levi Sanders

I don't think there's much to help you with that. A billion Catholics could tell you they don't worship Mary, but you insist that they do and don't even allow them to speak for themselves.

Lincoln Martinez
Lincoln Martinez

Because during the mass the priest takes on persona Christi, something a woman simply cannot do.

Aiden Reed
Aiden Reed

Yet a billion of Catholic make idols of Mary, bowing before it and praying before it.

Yep, not worshiping it, right.

Luke Taylor
Luke Taylor

So what if Christ founded your Church and installed Peter as His vicar! At least we follow the Bible that you compiled and determined to be infallible!
t. Retard
Like pottery.

Aaron Ross
Aaron Ross

Catholics don't have this. They fear every day of going to hell

It's a real possibility for all of us, and since we're fallen we need to stay awake and not fall into sin. There's fear when we're stubborn and don't want to completely let go of sin, but when we live in a state of grace and complete our obligations there's no fear.

Hunter Rogers
Hunter Rogers

So what if Christ founded your Church and installed Peter as His vicar!
Please provide the undisaptable proof that said Church is still the same Church as of now?
At least we follow the Bible that you compiled and determined to be infallible!
At least they follow the supposed words of God, not traditions of men.

You can always be a pagan if you like traditions of men.

Lucas Nguyen
Lucas Nguyen

Lmfao you just proved his point.

Angel Cooper
Angel Cooper

What point?

That the worship and sexualizing of Mary is very creepy?

Mary certainly didn't look like Aphrodite.

Brayden Collins
Brayden Collins

I'm not supportive of the statues, but they're not bowing and praying the way you think. Bowing was never simply reserved for just God in the old world. In some cultures (like Europe), it was to royalty.. in some existing cultures, it's merely to seniority (I'm part Asian.. it's common there). And praying is just talking, when it comes down to it. The only difference between asking someone on earth for their prayers and asking a saint is which direction you look. Or are you telling me that you've never said to a pastor or someone: "Please pray for me"? Because that's all intercessory prayer is.

Even the book of Revelation notes those in heaven bringing prayers to God: "And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

And like St. James noted: "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

Easton Hughes
Easton Hughes

Please provide the undisaptable proof that said Church is still the same Church as of now?
Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

At least they follow the supposed words of God, not traditions of men.
Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are non-contradictory. The richest aspect of Protestantism is them childishly taking for granted everything that the Catholic Church built, this you would never understand until you study the history of the one true Church, the body of Christ that you are excommunicated from.

You can always be a pagan if you like traditions of men.
You're literally a pagan. Christianity to you is up to your own fallible interpretation with no tradition to fall back on, tradition that the 12 Apostles themselves handed down to their successors in accordance with the will of Christ Jesus. Every one of the tens of thousands of Protestant sects in the world is an ethnocultural pagan congregation that wears the skin of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

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Bentley Williams
Bentley Williams

I'm not supportive of the statues, but they're not bowing and praying the way you think
Again, excuses excuses excuses.

In some existing cultures, it's merely to seniority (I'm part Asian.. it's common there).
I'm winnie the pooh vietnamese, and Jesus said you bow to no one but God.
Or are you telling me that you've never said to a pastor or someone: "Please pray for me"? Because that's all intercessory prayer is
In asian culture, praying is only for the death or gods, praying for a living person is weird.

Isaac Campbell
Isaac Campbell

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
So where's the proof that said church is the same Church as it now.
Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are non-contradictory.
Sacred Tradition is included in the Sacred Scripture, it is not found in the church of men.
Christianity to you is up to your own fallible interpretation with no tradition to fall back on,
Except you know, scriptures.
tradition that the 12 Apostles themselves handed down to their successors in accordance with the will of Christ Jesus.
Again, tradition of men, not Sacred, it is in fact a heresy to say they are traditions of god.

Sebastian Wood
Sebastian Wood

In asian culture, praying is only for the death or gods, praying for a living person is weird.
It is praying to God, and just asking saints to pray to God for you as well. In all cases, it's about God.

Hudson Jones
Hudson Jones

So just pray to God per Jesus's word.

Why pray to men?

Justin Martin
Justin Martin

I consider it talking or calling attention to. And besides that, we should "pray without ceasing" as St. Paul said. Always keep your eyes above. Lots of time for talking to God and heaven alike, if you want.

I understand most people approach prayer much more formally, but that's impossible if you "pray without ceasing". Formality is best in Church itself, or praying with others in general.

Daniel Green
Daniel Green

I consider it talking or calling attention to.
And I consider it heresy.

Just pray to god. If you are a Christian, at least follow Christ's word.

Logan Wright
Logan Wright

It is not the works we do that save us or our efforts to stay awake but God who justifies. That is why I can have peace with God.
6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 1:6

Dylan Anderson
Dylan Anderson

I just quoted Revelation and St. James above. Christ gave them their words. So I am following him. Secondly, I could quote the Deuterocanon on this too, but you don't even consider that the Word.. so it's pointless. Your idea of what the Word of God is is different unfortunately. And not ALL communication is meant to be worship.. I don't know why you keep insisting that. The Psalms themselves make jubilant statements like this:

"Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!"

It's not merely to be read for your amusement. It's a call to heaven.

Jason Ward
Jason Ward

Pray without ceasing to god.

Not men.

Repent.

Ethan Nelson
Ethan Nelson

Repent for talking? Repent for not being a man who merely lives according to the flesh? Repent for acknowleding that the Church is One (in heaven and earth)? Repent for living with the reality of the Kingdom of God NOW, rather than in some smallminded, dejected state that thinks I need physical death to be in heaven? No. No. No.

We already experience death in Baptism. And the Church is bigger than what your eyes see, I assure you.

Kevin Foster
Kevin Foster

Repent for praying to other spirits, men, women who are not the Christian God.

Repent.

You know it's wrong. Stop it.

Jaxson Kelly
Jaxson Kelly

I'm "talking" to you. Are you going to label that bad too.. that I'm "talking to another spirit" that isn't God? Is ALL communication now suddenly wrong?

I'll leave with this. I'm done afterwards. Christ himself said the Spirit would guide us into all truth. And what we're talking about already started happening early on in the church. Your whole belief system revolves on the Spirit never guiding anyone, and just letting the church fall into "paganism" and "other spirits" and literally having the gates of hell prevail. You literally believe that EVERYONE was wrong, that the Spirit never guided anything, and Christ was a liar… until 1500 years later and some random German guy got it all right.

Rebuke St. Cyprian and St. Ephraim while you're at it. I'm the least of your worries.

"Let us be mutually mindful of each other, let us ever pray for each other, and if one of us shall, by the speediness of the Divine vouchsafement, depart hence first, let our love continue in the presence of the Lord, let not prayer for our brethren and sisters cease in the presence of the mercy of the Father." - St. Cypria 258 AD

"Remember me, ye heirs of God, ye brethren of Christ, supplicate the Saviour earnestly for me, that I may be freed though Christ from him that fights against me day by day.

Ye victorious martyrs who endured torments gladly for the sake of the God and Saviour; ye who have boldness of speech towards the Lord Himself; ye saints, intercede for us who are timid and sinful men, full of sloth, that the grace of Christ may come upon us, and enlighten the hearts of all of us that so we may love him" - St. Ephraim 373 AD

"Stop it" - user 2019

I don't think so, man. But your welcome to join the rest of the Church when you like.

Landon Gray
Landon Gray

You can talk to me.

But if you pray for me, and bow before me and make idols of me, you are a heretic, plain and simple.

Chase Jenkins
Chase Jenkins

Tbh in 2018, none.
Lol
catholics here say everytime the opposite
somehow they're wrong and I'm right.
May God have mercy upon you because you insulted his mother.

Brayden Cox
Brayden Cox

Except that already St. Iraneus call the church of Rome the Catholic Church, after the nestorian schism the church in Rome was still called the Catholic Church, after the Eastern schism the church in Rome was still called the Catholic Church, after the protestant reformation the church in Rome was still called the Catholic Church….
t is not found in the church of men.
Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church in 33AD. Therefore its the Church of God.
Btw our rites or discipline isn't Tradition.
Tradition is doctrine, like Christology, justification, trinity, basically a guide to avoid false interpretations of the Bible like you do.
Except you know, scriptures
*splits into 30 000 denoms*
I'm sure that's what Christ wanted when he prayed for us to stay as one like He and the Father are One.
Again, tradition of men, not Sacred, it is in fact a heresy to say they are traditions of god.
Knowing about the Holy Trinity, the divinity of Christ etc are traditions of man. OK bro.

Landon Sanchez
Landon Sanchez

You insult Jesus's mother by making her into Aphrodite/Isis.

Repent.

somehow they're wrong and I'm right.
Until they destroy every idols, bury every "saints" and donate all their wealth to the poor and needy, they will never be right.

Adrian Morris
Adrian Morris

paganism has beautiful women
beautiful women are pagan
The logic, and implying Mary was ever potrayed as Aphrodite.
You know that Aphrodite appears naked on the paintings right?

David Sanchez
David Sanchez

Irenaeus was born during the first half of the 2nd century (the exact date is disputed: probably between the years 120 and 140),[10] and he is thought to have been a Greek from Polycarp's hometown of Smyrna in Asia Minor, now İzmir, Turkey.[11] Unlike many of his contemporaries, he was brought up in a Christian family rather than converting as an adult.
Hmm, and why should I trust this Iraneus?
Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church in 33AD. Therefore its the Church of God.
Proof? Did Jesus call his Church "Catholic"?
Tradition is doctrine, like Christology, justification, trinity, basically a guide to avoid false interpretations of the Bible like you do.
Again, traditions of men, into the trash.
I'm sure that's what Christ wanted when he prayed for us to stay as one like He and the Father are One.
I'm sure Christ told the goyim to go worship his mother, the Whore of Baylon.
Knowing about the Holy Trinity, the divinity of Christ etc are traditions of man. OK bro.
Found in scriptures, thus sacred traditions. Jack shit to do with the Church.

Oliver Robinson
Oliver Robinson

Thanks for proving my point.
You have no argument other than insults.
Yeah Catholicism is a pagan cult and in every document everyone since the 1st century said otherwise just to fool the goyim. You are the one who is right and saw through the lies.

Jaxson Lopez
Jaxson Lopez

The logic, and implying Mary was ever potrayed as Aphrodite.
Her idols in the Church sure do portrait her as such.
You know that Aphrodite appears naked on the paintings right?
Aphrodite is a goddess, she can put on clothes if she wants, or if her followers want to disguise her.

Grayson Wright
Grayson Wright

Where did I insult you though?

Yeah Catholicism is a pagan cult
Precisely, it is a semitic goddess cult.

Nathan Adams
Nathan Adams

Hmm, and why should I trust this Iraneus?
Because he was a disciple of St. John.
Did the gates of hell prevailed right after John died? Btw clement of Rome was the 3rd Pope when John was alive.
Odly he still remained in the Church.
Proof? Did Jesus call his Church "Catholic"?
Did Jesus ever used the word Trinity?
Then the trinitarian doctrine is wrong.
Also Catholic just means universal.
Catholic Church = universal Church.
Again, traditions of men, into the trash.
Washing the hands like the pharisees = theology.
Running out of arguments? You look like a scratched CD.
I'm sure Christ told the goyim to go worship his mother, the Whore of Baylon.
<muh Babylon
<provides no argument.
Running out of arguments? You look like a scratched CD.
Found in scriptures, thus sacred traditions. Jack shit to do with the Church.
Arius saw in the scriptures otherwise.
Every protestant sees different things in the scriptures. Who is right?
I mean no one can know what the apostles believed right? Oh wait we do because we don't ignore church history.

Joseph Lee
Joseph Lee

Because he was a disciple of St. John.
And? Does it make him literally unable to make a mistake? Why should I trust him?
Did Jesus ever used the word Trinity?
He didn't, but he clearly defined himself, his father and the holy spirit.
Also Catholic just means universal.
Washing the hands like the pharisees = theology.
Exactly, traditions of men are not sacred tradition. No matter how much you bow to the Pope, no respect to god is given.
<provides no argument.
Please provide proof that Mary looks like that, oh wait, she winnie the pooh doesn't.
I mean no one can know what the apostles believed right? Oh wait we do because we don't ignore church history.
Again, Christ said to follow his words, not any church. Any church can be wrong, to be wrong together just makes your sins darker.

Jace Diaz
Jace Diaz

And? Does it make him literally unable to make a mistake? Why should I trust him?
Then Christ made a promise he couldn't keep. The church fell in the hands for Satan until Luther, something that contradicts "the gates of hell shall not prevail"
Also St. Ignatius, St. Justin, St. Clement which is even mentioned in the scriptures, and many other said the same thing.
He didn't, but he clearly defined himself, his father and the holy spirit.
And he clearly said his church would be universal.
No matter how much you bow to the Pope, no respect to god is given.
We don't worship the pope. Who told you that? We respect him because he is a successor of the Apostles.
Btw in fact the pope is my servant. He is the servant of all the servants of Christ.
Its on of his titles.
Exactly, traditions of men are not sacred tradition
Discipline=theology
Ok.
Please provide proof that Mary looks like that, oh wait, she winnie the pooh doesn't.
The Chinese and the japanese portray her as an Asian woman, tiggers portray her as a black women, the same about Jesus and other saints. We in Europe potray her and the main characters of the Bible as white men, when they are truly semites.
Again, Christ said to follow his words
That's why Paul tells Timothy for people to obey the Church, the "pillar of truth".
The churches of men are fallible like yours.
We are not atheists like you and believe God is with us guiding us.
Again, Christ said to follow his words,
As I said Arius had a different interpretation of his words, like every protestant. Who's right?
If there ever was a church inspired by the Holy Spirit and didn't let her err. Oh well too bad Jesus left us to our own like an abandoned child right in the beggining.
Any church can be wrong
What if you are wrong too?

ID changed because I'm on a phone

Jaxson Foster
Jaxson Foster

Then Christ made a promise he couldn't keep.
Again, no proof at all that the Catholic church is the church founded by Peter, none at all.
And he clearly said his church would be universal.
And? Does that mean that the church would be one single institution? Hmm?
We don't worship the pope.
You bow before him.
Btw in fact the pope is my servant. He is the servant of all the servants of Christ.
Then ask him to bow before you and give you his wealth.
Discipline=theology
Discipline is not.
The Chinese and the japanese portray her as an Asian woman, tiggers portray her as a black women, the same about Jesus and other saints. We in Europe potray her and the main characters of the Bible as white men, when they are truly semites.
So again, none of them are worshiping Mary, but various of their goddesses, for the asian Kannon/Empress of the West Garden, for the tiggers just some random tiggers.
That's why Paul tells Timothy for people to obey the Church, the "pillar of truth".
Who cares about what Paul/Saul says? Saul didn't even winnie the pooh meet Christ.
The churches of men are fallible like yours.
Yes they are, as evident in Jesus's time.
We are not atheists like you and believe God is with us guiding us.
Holy shit winnie the pooh christian, so you let your nose be led by men?
If there ever was a church inspired by the Holy Spirit and didn't let her err. Oh well too bad Jesus left us to our own like an abandoned child right in the beggining.
Speaking like a goddamn heretic. You have no belief in Christ, just the Church of the whore of babylon because it gives you sweet comfort/lies.
What if you are wrong too?
Then we can discuss about it.

Chase Morgan
Chase Morgan

Again, no proof at all that the Catholic church is the church founded by Peter, none at all.
Matthew 28:18-20:
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”
Christ never left the church he left to Peter, the apostles like Paul left Timothy left other peoe in their place and those people left other people in their place etc etc until today.
And why aren't they wrong? Because Christ promised them so.
Its really a matter of church history now that you guys ignore for a reason.
You bow before him.
Don't you bow before your king?
Don't you bow before asking a women in marriage?
Are you worshipping them as Gods? Wew
Then ask him to bow before you and give you his wealth.
Do you watch TV? The pope does literally that when he washes the feet of marginals in Holy Thursday.
And I don't want his 10 dollars.
And implying the Catholic Church is rich. We only have palaces because the Vatican used to be a big country like any other.
For people like you the pope should live in a wood shack starving everyday.
He would be in a position where the political and religious enemies of the church could wipe her out of the map.
So again, none of them are worshiping Mary, but various of their goddesses, for the asian Kannon/Empress of the West Garden, for the tiggers just some random tiggers.
They do the same with Jesus and other saints.
Are you saying they don't worship Jesus?
When you look at a picture of Christ aren't you worshipping then a stupid pagan deity too?
Who cares about what Paul/Saul says? Saul didn't even winnie the pooh meet Christ.
<Scripture isn't inspired
<Paul is wrong
t. Muslim.
Yes they are, as evident in Jesus's time.
Such as…
Holy shit winnie the pooh christian, so you let your nose be led by men?
I said God guided us. I don't believe he disappeared magically.
Speaking like a goddamn heretic. You have no belief in Christ, just the Church of the whore of babylon because it gives you sweet comfort/lies.
Nice attack.
Still no argument or proof.
And don't bother to quote your only source, pastor Anderson. I even wonder if he is crazy enough to claim that.
Then we can discuss about it.
Why don't you admit that you can be wrong like them instead of trying too convince me you are correct?
Are you special?

Jayden Young
Jayden Young

That being said the only thing you can say is muh Babylon and my idolatry and such conversation is a waste of my time.
I'll let you with those doubts on your mind.

Hunter Price
Hunter Price

and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”
never did I a reference in that verse that Peter's Church is the catholic church, nor that the Catholic church is THE god's church. None.
Don't you bow before your king?
I don't since currently my country has no king.
Don't you bow before asking a women in marriage?
Nope, heresy.
Are you worshipping them as Gods? Wew
Kings are divinely ordained.
Do you watch TV? The pope does literally that when he washes the feet of marginals in Holy Thursday.
So show up to the Catholic church and ask he does that to YOU, you specifically.
And implying the Catholic Church is rich. We only have palaces because the Vatican used to be a big country like any other.
I want the Church's wealth, I want his 10 dollars, I want his billions of dollar.
For people like you the pope should live in a wood shack starving everyday.
You mean like winnie the pooh Jesus did?
He would be in a position where the political and religious enemies of the church could wipe her out of the map.
Like winnie the pooh Jesus was?
Are you saying they don't worship Jesus?
Yes! They aren't. They are worshiping random chink/tigger as Jesus.
t. Muslim.
Paul hasn't met Christ, the fact you trust him at all is suspicious.
Such as…
The high priests in the temple.
I said God guided us. I don't believe he disappeared magically.
So follow Him, not the Pope, not any priest who participate in the Church of the Harlot.
And don't bother to quote your only source, pastor Anderson. I even wonder if he is crazy enough to claim that.
I don't even trust pastor Anderson, the man is clearly too prideful to be a christian.
Why don't you admit that you can be wrong like them instead of trying too convince me you are correct?
Because I believe I'm correct. You are welcome to discuss about this.
But the Catholic church is not correct, this is not up to discussion.

Asher Turner
Asher Turner

Speaking like a goddamn heretic. You have no belief in Christ, just the Church of the whore of babylon because it gives you sweet comfort/lies.
Don't curse like that about God. Ironic you call people heretics, and then can't control yourself enough that you blaspheme in very the same sentence.

I don't care about this particular debate anymore, but don't do that.

Ryder James
Ryder James

2019, secular democracy everywhere, difficult to find "true Christian population" in such a state of affairs. But you will find places that are doing better than US - basically whole Eastern Europe, Russia, I would argue as far as faith is concerned maybe even western europe some countries. What happened is that the "superiority of liberal democracy" spread from the America, being accepted or imposed as the highest ideal. Decay in America caused it, the decay spread to other countries as well, of course. Saying that we are no better off now in some European countries is not exactly an argument against the thesis that America and UK are the living examples that Protestantism is rotten by relativism.

Thomas Walker
Thomas Walker

Sola Fide is an old meme before the memes were hip.
But even worse meme invented was Sola Scriptura.
Protestantism is relativism

Blake Gonzalez
Blake Gonzalez

But people mean well.
This is how evil forces work. You may have the best intentions when rejecting tradition handed to you. You may as well believe to be guided by Holy Spirit. You may have good heart. That does not mean that the forces will not use you to further the subversion. This is what - I believe - happened in the reformation.

Lincoln Kelly
Lincoln Kelly

Where did I curse god though, friend?

The church is of men.

Carter Lopez
Carter Lopez

winnie the pooh off faggot.
France
French revolution
Catholic
Russia
Communist revolution
Orthodox

Stop trying to blame the Anglos on everything.

Jackson Allen
Jackson Allen

When you said "godd**m". It's an ugly word, and just because you think you're making it in reference to a "heretic" doesn't make it right. It's a bad habit to rely on such words… and a bad witness to the world that we even sound like them.

Isaiah Kelly
Isaiah Kelly

Heretic are damned by god, this is not an insult, but a description.

Dominic Hill
Dominic Hill

Well, I tried. Are you the Viet poster? Maybe English isn't your first language, but this word is never used in a religious context. It's a careless blasphemy used by worldly people. Just like when people exclaim Christ's name in a careless way. No one mistakes it in a religious context.

Isaiah Johnson
Isaiah Johnson

I stick to my reason, heretic is damned by god, thus it is not an insult.

Austin Taylor
Austin Taylor

Like I said, I tried. Everyone's a heretic, and one lone man gets to cuss like a sailor with complete sanctimony.

Dylan Fisher
Dylan Fisher

Paul hasn't met Christ
No, he hasnt. But he has met the apostles.

Luke Rivera
Luke Rivera

There was this one time a woman taught a man.
It didn't end terribly well, a snake was involved.

Asher Anderson
Asher Anderson

If you want to leave Protestantism for Catholicism, look up Richard John Neuhaus.

As for Lutheranism, denominations like the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (mine) are still liturgical.

Nicholas Rodriguez
Nicholas Rodriguez

the vietnam larper decides to be baptist today

This is top comedy.

John Brown
John Brown

I do not blame Anglos on everything. My position is far from being "Everything is Anglo's fault". But if you think that I like the influence of them over Europe for the last 100 years or so I have bad news for you.
Say what you will, Americanism represents everything that makes Christianity perish given enough time: Secularism, mixing various European nations into one nation, forcing "religious freedom" therefore. And so on. You may point that out without saying "everything is Anglo fault.
And protestantism is not just Anglo phenomenon.
If you follow the line of conversation I just said America is in no way "christian nation" the counterargument was "who is then". I do not claim Europe is perfect. I claim that America is a living proof of the mere fact that protestantism is false. Protestantism lead to secularism which lead to atheism which lead to decay.

Lucas Lee
Lucas Lee

But the Church has been shit before the Reformation.

You can't even read the Bible before Luther decides to rebel.

Say what you will, Americanism represents everything that makes Christianity perish given enough time:
Christianity has perished since before americans even exist. It perished at the dawn of Early Christianity where marian mystery cult takes over the church of Rome.
And? The apostles are men.

Leo Ortiz
Leo Ortiz

And? The apostles are men.

Men taught directly by God, walked with God, ate with God, and so forth. For that reason, they hold a special kind of authority. If you're saying that St. Paul was teaching false teachings and you can't trust him because of that, then surely the Apostles would've corrected him when they met him.Instead, they formed the Apostles Creed, ate together, slept together, and so on.

Samuel Powell
Samuel Powell

No, they winnie the pooh aren't.

They can eat with god, walk with god, be taught by god and they still are men.

Listen to god's words, not THEIR words.

inb4 but they say god's word

Proof, prove every passage of that, compare and contrast.

Just because they study with Christ does not grant them ANY authority, they are servants, just like angels.

Jason Miller
Jason Miller

jesuswordsonly.com/books/175-pauls-contradictions-of-jesus.html

Reject Pauline heresy.

Paul did not meet Jesus Christ, he has no right to speak god's words.

Jaxson Ramirez
Jaxson Ramirez

Where did I say they are anything more than men? The fact that they lived with God and were taught by Him makes them more knowledgeable about Christian theology than you or I. Due to this special knowledge stemming directly from God Himself, they have the authority to determine what is right and what is wrong when it comes to theology. I am not treating them as gods, and neither do any of those who hold the Apostolic faith.

Take a look at Revelation 2:2
“I know your works, your labor, and your endurance, and that you cannot tolerate the wicked; you have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not, and discovered that they are impostors."
This is Jesus speaking to the Church of Ephesus. Do you know how went to Ephesus and taught there? St. Paul. He even refers to himself as the Apostle Paul (Ephesians 1:1). If Paul was this false apostle you speak of, then the Ephesians would've rejected him. If they hadn't, and had instead accepted his false teachings, then Jesus wouldn't have commended them in Revelations for discerning false apostles and rejecting them.

Next, some proof Apostles had authority from Christ.
Matthew 10:1-4 - Jesus gave the 12 power to perform miracles. [Hebrews 2:3,4]

Mark 16:14,20 - Apostles used miracles as they PREACHED to confirm the word.

Acts 3:1-10; 8:14-24; 9:32-41

Paul could lay hands on others and bestow miraculous powers on them:
Acts 19:6,7 - He laid hands on twelve disciples so the Holy Spirit came on them and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

2 Timothy 1:6 - He gave Timothy a gift through the laying on of his hands. [Rom. 1:11]

As for the source of authority:
John 14:26; 16:13 - Jesus promised the apostles that the Holy Spirit would come and teach them all things, guide them into all truth, and remind them of Jesus' teachings.

Matthew 10:19,20 - When they taught, they were not teaching from themselves, but the Spirit of the Father spoke through them.

[2 Timothy 3:16,17; Acts 1:5,8; 2:1-4,33; Matthew 28:18-20; 2 Peter 3:2; Revelation 1:1]

So the apostles' teachings came from the same source as did Jesus' teaching. All of them spoke the will of God as revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. The apostles' teaching was as accurate and as authoritative as was Jesus' teaching. All spoke with the infallible authority of God.

If this is not so, then in fact we do not even really know what Jesus Himself taught, since He never wrote any of the Bible. All we have are records which apostles and prophets wrote of what He said and did. If we accept what they record of Jesus' teachings, why not accept the other teaching that the Spirit guided them to write?

Brody Wilson
Brody Wilson

The fact that they lived with God and were taught by Him makes them more knowledgeable about Christian theology than you or I.
That is true, but it does not make whatever they say god's word.

For men can lie.

The rest apply to your proof. See this post for someone who has done their homework:

Logan Green
Logan Green

For men can lie.
These men were the Apostles, whom Jesus entrusted His teachings with. If they lied, then Jesus made a mistake.

Also, thanks for not reading my post.

Logan Jackson
Logan Jackson

Jesus was a man, ergo he can make a mistake.

Jacob Torres
Jacob Torres

Jesus was a man
Okay. This is enough. You have outed yourself as a non believer.

Grayson Rodriguez
Grayson Rodriguez

Even Jesus admits he's a man.

Jonathan Rogers
Jonathan Rogers

A man who's also fully God. What is this heresy?

Justin Gonzalez
Justin Gonzalez

And? He's still a man, and he can make mistake.

Or a man cannot make mistake?

Jayden Campbell
Jayden Campbell

If He made a mistake, He would not be fully God. If He was not fully God, then He is not the Son made incarnate. If He was not the Son made incarnate, then there's no reason to be a Christian.
Christ was a man, yes, however He was also fully God. He was fully God and fully man. He was not "partially" God, and fully man. No. He (the Son) took on the fullness of man. But who is the Son? Is He not fully God? Therefore, Christ is fully man and fully God. He is therefore perfect in every way. Sinless and INERRABLE.

Ryder Evans
Ryder Evans

God doesn't make mistakes, heretic. Repent

Leo Gomez
Leo Gomez

Adam was sinless, yet he sins.

If so, same for Christ.

If He made a mistake, He would not be fully God.
He's a man, thus he can make a mistake. Simple.
God might not, but Jesus Christ was a man, thus he can make mistake.

Tyler Barnes
Tyler Barnes

Adam was sinless until the fall. However, Adam was not God. If Adam was God, there would be no fall in the first place. If Adam was God, he would not have sinned even after the fall. Why? BECAUSE GOD CANNOT SIN.

Andrew Nguyen
Andrew Nguyen

Adam was not god, but he was human.

Guess what Jesus Christ is? A human.

Ergo, he can sin, like Adam.

Jack Moore
Jack Moore

So you admit Jesus isn't God?

Jason Rivera
Jason Rivera

Who do you think Jesus is?

Justin Adams
Justin Adams

Jesus said what he is, son of God, a man.

Jaxson Bell
Jaxson Bell

A simple man doesn't rise from the dead. A simple man doesn't perform miracles.
Jesus Is God
God cannot make mistakes

If you just take like 5 minutes to think about your heresy logically it makes zero sense.

God cannot make mistakes
Jesus is God
ergo
Jesus can make mistakes (?)

If the above logic is true than Jesus isn't God. But it is not true because it is unsound. Repent, you heretic!

Nicholas Lewis
Nicholas Lewis

There isn't a "Protestant" church. The Protestant Church™ isn't ordaining women pastors. Protestants are a collection of distinct churches who either split off from the Roman Catholic Church during the Reformation or have split off from a line of churches that did. You are either incredibly new to the faith or a catholic pooposter.

I'm no hysterical preacher who thinks Catholics are heretics - I think it's a valid denomination, and I believe there's reason for the foundation of the institution, not a conspiracy theory involving pagans. I believe believing Catholics are part of the body of Christ. What keeps me far away from declaring allegiance to Rome is the rot of its leadership, not only today but also historically. As a Protestant, my earthly church is the community of people I choose to worship with; not a beurocratic multinational institution half a world away. For this reason, if a church starts to show signs of heresy or starts to become morally desolate - or start ordaining women pastors - then I can very easily disassociate from it and support a church and leadership that proclaims Christ without shame of dilution.

I believe that the Catholic church has long passed that threshold that a local church would pass for me to disassociate. It's an open secret that a lot of the clergy has been infiltrated by homosexuals, including in Rome itself, which is the reason for the scandals involving molestation. I am also incredibly uncomfortable with the desecration of a church building(s) by allowing the worship of a false god within its walls - as has recently happened. The list goes on and on. Where modernity might infect one protestant church, it cannot infect all - however, given the centralization of the RCC, when modernity strikes Rome, it works to dillute the entire structure.

Elijah Howard
Elijah Howard

Jesus really was a man, the Bible says so.
Why was half of this thread deleted? Was this post replied to for saying Jesus was a man?

If some poster needs to be banned, why is it also all deleted?
This place sucks. Just expect us to be big boys and identify heresy for ourselves.

Hudson Ramirez
Hudson Ramirez

Was this post in question* deleted for saying Jesus was (and is) a man?

David Murphy
David Murphy

Your answer is right here. Learn to read, heretic.

John Russell
John Russell

Jesus is God and man. This is basic christology.
1 Tim 2:5 "the man Christ Jesus"

Daniel Martinez
Daniel Martinez

You are moving the goal post and being disingenuous. We already established Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. You became a filthy heretic when you asserted the false notion that God makes mistakes.

Do you seriously not know how to read properly? Do you need help? Reading can be fun and easy if you just gave it a try.

Attached: 512hAfzK-XL.-SX345-BO1,204,203,200-.jpg (42.2 KB, 347x499)

Jaxson Myers
Jaxson Myers

That wasn't me.
I'm only asking questions because I can't read the previous posts, they were all deleted.

From my perspective you called me a heretic for saying Jesus was a man.
Calm down.

Noah Clark
Noah Clark

sorry lads, but you can't be a Protestant if you don't know what you're protesting

so… assuming you hold to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, which asserts that the Bible is the sole infallible rule of faith, completely equipping the believer for every good work God has foreordained for him (2 Tim 3:16), you would then judge every other aspect of religion in light of God's revelatory Scripture, yes?

now i think this goes without saying, but i'm going to say it anyway just to really spell it out and make it clear: if you don't hold to a position of Sola Scriptura, you can't even begin to think that you're a historically orthodox Protestant

if you are undecided as to whether Sola Scriptura is a defensible posture, you might look to the early Church Fathers and see them judging every matter between themselves by the light of Scripture – quoting the Scriptures so prolifically when discussing matters in those first centuries, that even if we didn't have over 5,000 archaeological finds of manuscripts from between 100-200 AD, we could still piece together the entirety of the New Testament (and an awful lot of the Old) except for maybe 7 verses, just from their letters to each other

it was to these Church Fathers that men like Luther turned, when faced with the enormity of corruption that had inveigled its way into The Church by his time – and to whom he appealed when writing to the Bishops and even the Pope; making the case that The Church should go back to its Apostolic roots and model itself rightly again

~

tbc.

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Lucas Campbell
Lucas Campbell

… cont.

of course, a wiser man might argue that were one to turn to the words of THE VERY LORD GOD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST that are recorded for us in Scripture, he could safely dispense with the proclamations and counsel of these wise and truthful Fathers and see The Lord continually take a Sola Scriptura stance when dealing with interlocutors, His constant refrain being 'Have you not read… ' the direct inference being that The Scripture dictates the rule, and that the Scripture was plain enough to be understood by men, for if not; how could He fault them?

now perhaps one might argue that the Omnipotent God is incapable of revealing everything of Himself that man needs to know, or that the God-given reasoning capacities of Man are not up to the task of understanding plain teaching – and that even when God The Holy Spirit brings the revelation of God in Scripture to life in fallen men's understanding; there must be more need done to unearth the deeper truths and doctrines held therein

but that's an obvious canard and anyone who takes such a stance is a blasphemer against The Almighty

so… coming full circle; if you claim to be a Protestant but don't hold the Scripture to be the sole infallible and inerrant rule of faith, you ain't a Protestant - but if you do, then you would judge other doctrines by its revelation, and apply it to such cases as how;
~ Man might be saved from the Wrath of God
~ the sacerdotal role of the priesthood
~ who are the priesthood
~ what happens in the Eucharist - is Christ really sacrificed again at that altar, being summoned at the words of a priest's invocation?
~ the treasury of merit and from whence does merit come
~ Synergism as opposed to Monergism
~ can you eat fish on a friday
~ Mary as Mediatrix
~ Mary as Co-Redemptrix with Christ
~ are priests an Alter Christus
~ are priests always priests, their souls sealed indelibly with their vocation, thus can never truly be disqualified from priesthood no matter what they do?
~ does the Bishop of Rome have warrant to proclaim himself the Pre-eminent Bishop of Bishops
~ does that same Pope have warrant to claim that all other Kingdoms and Authorities are subservient to himself, and must pay homage to him with moneys and lands?
~ is the Pope Catholic?
~ purgatory
~ is Mary really the Mother of Perpetual Help, the dispenser of all the goods which God grants to miserable sinners, The Advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to her, the one to whose hands we should place our eternal salvation and entrust our souls, and that if she protect us, as Mother, one would fear nothing; not our sins, because she will obtain the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because she is more powerful than all hell together; nor even Jesus The Judge himself, because by one prayer from Mary, He will be appeased?

… i say these in no particular order and there are many more such questions with which the Protestant differs from his friends in Rome, finding himself at odds with their Bishop of Bishops – and thus not being in communion with their convocation is declared 'Anathema' (forever cursed, cut off and damned to Hell) by Roman Catholic Dogma – so you might want to think long and hard about how many of these issues you side with Rome on, since if you don't; they say you're going to the Eternal Lake of Fire even if you think you're Roman Catholic

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Blake Jones
Blake Jones

Half the post in this thread have been deleted and it's pointless to even carry on.

Leo Ross
Leo Ross

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William Ward
William Ward

HmmMmm, sure. Even though all the context you need is is literally in the left over posts, but whatever.

As long as you admit that Jesus cannot make mistakes, than all is good.

Wyatt Robinson
Wyatt Robinson

Catholics are demonstrably incorrect in the topic of grace since faith is sufficient for salvation. This is what apostles taught, and Paul expressed our conversion as "adaption" , not something to be earned. Of course, this isn't an excuse for rebellion, as many papists like to claim, but one cannot the wall of heaven even if you have crutches of goodwill.

The keys of church were given to all the apostles and the role of the keys is to reaffirm God's already spoken word, not "redefining" doctrines, read Matthew 18:15-18

The church were governed by a plurality of elders. Even if you believe that the bishop of the roman church is the "church" who gates of hell will not overcome, then Satan won twice! Once when the whole leadership denied the divinity of Christ during the Arian Controversy and the other when the Babylonian captivity of the church with the multiple Avignon popes.
Also Thomas Aquinas relied on a pseudo-isidorian decretal to support his view of the papacy.

If you read 2 maccabees 12:39-46, you realize that it doesn't support Catholicism, because 1). The men who Judas wanted to prayed for commented idolatry-a moral sin according to the vactican cannot be forgiven after one dies. 2). it supports soul sleep, which Catholics view as heres

There was never an apostolic tradition on interpretation passed down, otherwise the entire church wouldn't have accepted Origin's (3rd century) Alexandrian method of interpretation or required medieval theologians to interpret verses with multiple types of interpretations or so many people (including romanists) denying the apocrypha long before it was brought up by Luther.
Ironically the closest thing we have said tradition by Papias was universally rejected throughout church history.

There are so many other reason to acknowledge why Catholicism isn't apostolic in belief, but that shouldn't not make us boastful then lose sight on the LORD's teachings which is the sole rule of faith for the church like so many proclaimed "protestants" do now days (whether influenced by Jesuits or not.)

Isaiah Parker
Isaiah Parker

coogi gang coogi gang coogi gang coogi gang

Joshua King
Joshua King

God = liquid water.
Jesus = frozen water.
Mary = freezer.

When God/Water goes through Mary/freezer, it becomes solid and thus Jesus/frozen water is born.

Water cannot break.
But frozen water can break.

Thus while God cannot make mistake, Jesus can because of his frozen/human state.

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