I have been reading the Bible everyday(both old and new testament) and believe in every word, and though I do not sympathise with the jews for they have broken the trust of our God many times I am still unable to understand what sin did they commit, so grave, that they had to go through the Holocaust something that will leave them damaged. Did anyone prophesy to the jews about Hitler, why didn't God save his chosen people?
Also those who say the Holocaust didn't happen, proof please? And to those who say Jews are no longer the chosen people, also proof.
Sorry for 3 posts, my browser glitched and resulted in me posting 3 posts with different heading. Please forgive me.
Levi Reyes
It would be true if there wasn't a life beyond this one. and implying that it wouldn't be a justified punishment since they committed deicide
Ryder Perry
from the Vatican II Nostrae Aetates. I'm just quoting a modern document for you to see the Jews are not chosen anymore.
If now I went to quote the bible and the Church fathers this board server would go out of memory.
Owen Murphy
Point 1: Christ was the fulfillment of the covenant of Abraham. To reject Christ is to reject Abraham, ergo Jews who reject Christ reject being chosen. Point 2: for some reason, no later than 70 AD, the pharisaical Jews decided that Jewishness was matrilineal rather than patrilineal, despite an inheritance of the covenant being patrilineal all through the OT. This causes me to wonder whether any modern self-proclaimed Jews are actually Jewish at all.
Xavier Butler
The Church is God's chosen people. If the unbelieving Jews suffer it is not divine punishment to turn them back to God, it is simply human geopolitics.
Charles Davis
Didn’t Jesus yell at them for genociding their prophets or something and that’s why they’re now a spiritually sterile race? Whereas the church on the other hand tries to foster prophets. I don’t even believe they’re Israelites btw. They look nothing like Jesus in the Shroud of Turin.
Andrew Evans
Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
John 8:44
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Also revelations literally talk about "synagogue of satan". It is hard to imagine "synagogue of satan" is somehow chosen by God. If you reject Logos, crucify Son of God I guess you stop being a chosen. I suggest you read St. John Chrysostom - 8 Homilies against the Jews for further explanation. The point is that with coming of the Christ the whole truth was revealed. The new covenant took place. The tribe of Judah had all the clues it would happen - prophets, special place enjoyed in the eyes of God. They however wanted someone fierce, powerful - a worldly king. Then Jesus came "his kingdom not out of this world". Told you that everyone is brother in spirit if he believes, told us what would happen to him,cleansed the temple. The Pharisees were seeking worldly fame, money, power and that's why they rejected him in their pride. That's when "judaism" was born. Old Testament religion is proto-christianity, or if you want, a christianity without being fully revealed. If you are a christian and believe that what these people do is legit and that Judaism is somehow "older" than Christianity, you re not christian at all, sorry. No they are not. The prophets predicted the coming of the messiah, the law was instituted to make way for his coming. The law is fulfiled in the coming of Christ. Rejecting Messiah and waitin for another one - as "modern jews" do, is mockery of God. Chrysostom writes about how temple was destroyed - the only place where they could do sacrifices. Without the temple the rite is invalid. Perhaps a sign that the messiah has come already? Not even this showed the way to stubborn descendants of the tribe of Judah.
You see. If you concede that Christ is Son of God, the Logos, you either end up saying they rejected him, or God was "mean to them" because He did not fulfill their expectations. IF you think a man is above God, I have nothing else to say really. Yeah. Everything that happens to Jews is fault of someone else. Even God himself is at fault they rejected him. Got it. Let me tell you: Not all Jews came to Judaism. Some of them converted and they were a backbone of the early church. To each his own. As far as the rest of the post is concerned: not going out of my way to comment since this should be enough for you to digest anyway. You seem to be greatly confused about your faith. You should read the New Testament first, then proceed with the Old Testament to get the idea of what really happened and what it all implies for ALL AGES. It is not fairy tales of some "really nice guy". It is what truly happened and it was Son of God. Not just "some guy"
Zachary Evans
Read the Fathers, popes, Luther, &c. Everyone (save mutt "christianity") and modernists agree that the Jews, unless they convert, are not God's people.
Brayden Bailey
Considering that at the end of the day, the Jews got the modern state of Israel, greater world influence than ever, and the perfect "victim card" to wave around anytime anyone questions them, out of the deal; the Holocaust seems less like a punishment and more like a "short term pain" for a "long term gain" in the large scheme of things.
A better question is why God allowed the Jews who rejected him to gain such a foothold from this in the first place? Does the Old Testament scripture of "I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you." still apply, and the Axis powers became subject to this? Or does the current position of the Synagogue of Satan have a much bigger picture role to play according to God's plan?
Jacob Butler
This refers to Christians, not those who reject Christ. inb4 evangelical screeching about muh chosen people
Wyatt Evans
Nobody here does that. How new are you?
Nicholas Cox
Thank you I will read the new testament again, I seemed to have not paid enough attention in my 1st reading, forgive me for I am new to the faith.
Henry Rivera
Of course seeing the bigger picture good did happen, but doesn't anyone feel sad for the suffering, even for the suffering of jewish people. Is it wrong to feel bad for the people who rejected Christ? Am I being an hypocrite, am I an evangelist?
Jonathan Hill
Of couse we should and must suffer with those who suffer, and that includes the Jews (and other ethnic groups) who suffered during World War II. But they are not the people of God anymore, they are merely a nation among others. Let us not put unbelieving Jews on a pedestal (but let us not imagine that God particularly hates them either). The Hebrews are a nation among others. See Amos 9:7:
Gavin Brown
The Jewish answer to this question is simple:
Isaac Brown
It's fine. Sorry for being a kind of sperg but I have encountered enough "long time" christians who are zionists because apparently Christians are to be blamed for all hardships of "jewish people" and therefore they are somehow "chosen" even if it contradicts the fundamental points of Christian faith, the church fathers thought otherwise and for 19 centuries this was basically the line of thought preached.
Lincoln James
Hitler didn't say that… he was too intelligent. Tell me my fellow russian bots, was this the most right wing comment possible?
Ayden Foster
...
Joseph Peterson
You reap what you sow as they say, God didn't need to do a thing. Granted the Holocaust is overplayed alot of well, it rings true that those who love the dark hate the light, and if you try to officially investigate the Holocaust you get shut down
Ryder Reyes
It is not wrong to feel bad for the Jewish people. At the same time, them getting Israel, more power and influence over the 1st world, and the Holocaust as a get out of jail free card, in terms of responsibility and accountability, as well as a tool for pushing destructive agendas, is not a good thing either. At least in the short term from a human perspective, in terms of the havoc it has wreaked on the West. Still, I know God ultimately utilizes even the evil works of men towards his ultimate good ends. I am curious as to how God will work this out in the long run.
Jace Ortiz
Better question to ask is why would God allow the persecution of 10 million Christians in the Soviet Union, but whatever
Jack King
If the holocaust is true, which I think it is, then it was only made possible by the power of demons. Khazarian satanists from the beginning of the century had been seeking to sacrifice 6 million Jews to moloch in order to have world domination and the state of Israel. Holocaust means whole burnt, and was offered to God with nothing left over. However God does not accept human sacrifice, only demons like Satan, baphomet and moloch do, so it is obvious who they were making these holocausts to.
Benjamin Nelson
Does God punish? Or do we punish ourselves with out sins? I'd say it's the latter. If there was a holocaust, the jews probably had it coming, but given that the main victims were russians and homosexuals, I think the jews are just being their usual disgusting self, exploiting the death of other people as a sacrifice to their own egos and their false god.
The main victims of the Holocaust are the people who have to listen to the Jew's incessant whining about it, and the russians and the homosexuals who were killed.
Adrian Ortiz
Siege of Jerusalem AD 69. the burning of the temple destroyed all birth records of jews. so no one could prove if he was jewish or not.
Parker Jenkins
Free will exists.
James Rodriguez
user, you have much to learn on the subject. Also, the Jews stopped being chosen when they rejected the Messiah. The chosen people were those who followed the laws of Moses and acknowledged Christ as their long-awaited Messiah.
It might have something to do with them being heavily involved in the Russian revolution and responsible for the murder of the Tsar and his family.
I mean it seriously, if you read Mein Kampf, this was one of the rationales behind Hitler's hatred of the Jews. Let's not forget that the Germans almost had their state overthrown by Jewish communists and suffered tremendously at the hands of the Jewish dominated Weimar republic during the 1920's.
By "Holocaust" I believe it is meant mean illegal (that is to say, by state decree as opposed to a court ruling on basis of criminal conviction) expropriation of property, removal of citizenship, expulsion from homes, forced incarceration in conditions unfit for human existence (unlike the rather well treated interred Japanese in US for example), forced labor, starvation due to mass neglect, and finally well documented mass murders of persons found to have Jewish genetic ancestry, including many who have converted to Christianity for several generations. It doesn't necessarily just mean the contentious issue of gas chambers, which is a subject of historical and forensic debate.
Of course one could argue whether these measures were justified in the circumstances, given the extent to which we can guess every Jew posed a threat to the Reich. However the fact of the matter is that Jews suffered under these measures, justly or not.
Wyatt Brown
Out of the horses mouth (wikipedia)…
70 years of propaganda made 100% sure what they want that name to stand for.
Jason Ross
Well I'm pretty sure that we're not considering here what "they" think, but rather what the truth is.
Ian Clark
So you fully understand the scope of the lie, but chose to keep using the term "holocaust" while shifting the meaning towards jewish persecution? Why?
Nicholas Butler
I find it extremely irritating whenever someone digs into something I write in order to imply it means something besides what was written.
The fact that certain, ahem, groups promoted a culture of victimhood as part of a cynical political agenda, doesn't change the reality of the event witnessed by history, namely the systematic persecution of non-Germans in occupied territories by the German state. In particular the term "holocaust" is historically used to designate Jews amongst the groups who experienced mistreatment at he hands of the Nazis.
How else do you want to call it? "Anti jewish policies of the Third Reich?" I don't care the slightest. But to be clear, you are right in assuming that I have little sympathy for the occult nature of the Nazi regime and its bio-centric ethnic policies.
