Why is Christianity so fixated on moralism?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the importance of virtue, but Christianity seems obsessively fixated upon it. Whenever I read stories of the saints, they STILL are concerned about petty moral scruples even after years of devout practice without mortal sin. It seems they fixated so obsessively on meaningless thoughts when they could be contemplating far greater things regarding God. Why would you try and fight thoughts you have no control over? Why don't the saints write more about their subjective experiences with God instead of always lamenting about some minor sin? How can you justify subordinating metaphysics to ethics when the latter is justified by the former?

I don't want this to be a blogpost, but I was depressed for a 5 week period fairly badly, the standard sort of stuff the average 8ch user has probably experienced. Yet, as soon as I began to care less about my sins and just live how I wished, not judging my actions, I began to feel much better. Now I know that I have lost some self control as a result, but no longer do I feel that constant regret and pain of sin. I feel as if I have gone beyond petty morality and am able to contemplate spirituality far more soberly.
How are you not tired of the constant pain and shame? Looking back on it, I don't understand why I kept on humiliating myself by going back to confession week after week.

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I would love to be able to feel even this. Sin has left me nothing inside. No knowledge or essay can fix that. Without virtue everything else is meaningless. I don't even have a reason to exist anymore.

They do it to set a good example for people.
Saints experienced beautiful things but if they only told people about it, the common man would get fixated on feelings even though he doesn't have a proper virtuous character.
Basically to not create lukewarm people.

It's not that it's difficult to avoid hell… It's pretty easy in fact : just live for yourself, don't do evil, winnie the poohed up shit and never try to transcend yourself. The majority of people go to limbo. They're not "evil" per see, but they don't quite deserve heaven.

Getting to heaven? Now that's difficult.

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Because virtues are the epitome of the inner sanction that happens when one grows in their faith and practice.
Conquering the human will is what is sought, when we leave the World of the Flesh we also leave it's desires.

This isn't Catholic doctrine. I'm assuming you're Catholic becasue of that link.

hmm that sounds awfully familiar….

Watch this video, you'll understand.
youtube.com/watch?v=yxR1uikdR0A&bpctr=1550362128

Christianity is not fixated on moralism, it is fixated on morality because morality has a transcendent character. The other religions will give you nice feelings all you want, but nice feelings can't help your neighbour, they won't keep you afloat when a storm hits your life, and they won't save you from hell.

Yes, it's harder, but that's because it's worth doing, now pick up your cross and kindly shut up.

Morality is the most important thing regarding us existentially. The truth is that we are not the center of all reality, that there is existence beyond us, and every action we take affects others and all of God's creation. God is good, good is real and has meaning, evil is also real and has real consequences. Solipicists hate morality, because it's proof that God exists.

True Christianity is utilitarian. Jesus justified breaking sabbath because of results. Healing someone on the sabbath brings better results than not. The Bible is full of people justifying virtue with results from Sirach talking about the rewards of helping a friend to Paul warning of aversion to God leading to homosexuality. Virtue brings about good and sin evil. That’s how we know even though it’s not in the Bible that sticking a fork in an outlet is a sin.

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The saints were still human and vulnerable to pride and perfectionist anxieties like the rest of us. Re-read the gospels to clear your mind, as it's ultimately through Jesus' teachings that we are saved, not through the worries of men. Forgiveness towards yourself and your neighbors is the utmost virtue.

Pretty sure the experience of shame of their impurities before their maker is the subjective experience of many saints. Also not many, if any, will be saved by knowledge of metaphysics, but people can be saved by repenting of their evil.

Is replying to this post a sin?

You don't have to confess venial sins but only mortal.

based

The truth of the universe is completely inconsequential to us. We've been instructed to keep a tight ship for Jesus' return and theorizing on metaphysics is a waste of time.

It's called humility, they do this to not grow proud and lose grace. They fear they are going to start thinking it's their merit and not God, so they consider themselves worthless sinners.
Also you should meditate the words of Saints and not take it at face value because they are written in a way to be educative. Saints are way more sensible to sin than a normal person. If we are struggling with bigger sins there is no point in obsessing over minor thoughts or we would go insane. Only once the heart is pure then this things become more visible.

About the blogpost part, I'm feeling like it's babby's first spiritual delusion. If you feel better but sin more I don't think it's a good thing. Purification always come before contemplation, if you skip that step bad things happens.

The other religions are concerned with metaphysics which is more important than ethics. Morality has a transcendent character, but it is not transcendence in of itself. Only the bourgeois manifestations of eastern religions are concerned with nice feelings. I can't value your point if you take such a reductionist viewpoint.


God is the most important thing existentially. Morality is a manifestation of him through the law. I dont understand why people worship the law. They are no better than Talmudists


Christianity is not utilitarian at all. The fact that you even say such a thing sounds like some poor bait I'd see on /b/. Such a philosophy wasn't even around until the modern age. Utilitarianism says an action is only good or bad based on its results. Christianity says what is good or bad is based on whatever God says. The results are secondary. Maybe you are going for a colloquial definition, but either way, if you try using that argument, then why should I even bother with the law at all. It is most practical for me to forgo it all since at the current moment, I am doing much better without it, and it served for nothing but scruples upon my conscious.


There is true humility and then there is simply false sanctimony. There is no reason for someone who has prayed and fasted in a monastery for half their life to call themselves a worthless sinner. It is literally slave morality, as much as I question the use of the term.

Again, this would be true from your point of view of a normal christian struggling with the usual sins.
Saints gain a sort of x-ray vision against sin, they are able to tell the smallest temptations in their souls, stuff we don't even notice.
The meaning of those stories is we are still fallen and unable to resist our sinful nature without grace, so even great saints would be like the worst sinner if grace abandon them. Humility is their way to be reminded of this and keeping grace. The second teaching of these stories is to never let the guard down, no matter what you accomplished with the help of God.

I understand that, you are speaking like I haven't read a book by a saint in my life. It still does not change the fact that they are obsessed with morality. How is it any better to constantly worry about sin than to be a talmudist Jew who is constantly studying the Mosaic law. It is just a different manifestation of the same state of mind.
I understand the importance of a law, but I do not believe that fulfillment of it is the most importing thing in life.

You won be saying that after you buy a hooker and catch aids. The law keeps you from doing very stupid things with bad results. The law about banning pork no longer has bad results so it’s irrelevant. Adultery, lying, stealing, and most everything else have bad consequences for either you or your community.

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Seems like you've gone a bit overboard. Just because I have cast off the burdens of the law for a few moments doesn't mean I am going to go and get hookers. I am living the same as I usually do, but no longer have to worry about constantly confessing, or making amendments for things that are of no consequence to my life. You are just projecting at this point. There are plenty of things the law requires that are not good for one's community. To love one's enemies is certainly not good for a community's survival. I understand the greater purpose of such words, but you make a fool of yourself in trying to justify the law through utilitarianism and coping that "its makes my life better."

Those other religion allow faggotry and transsexualism too

You reek of Reddit. Loving ones enemies doesn’t mean letting them do whatever they want. You value your own intellect over your own well-being.

Not an argument, since I was talking about metaphysics. Nice try flipping the conversation to something unrelated though. Anyways, Islam doesn't allow it nor is it allowed for any of the monastic orders of Buddhism or Hinduism. I suspect you will flip that once more with "muh islam" or "muh pagans"

You're a very knowledgable person. I totally agree with you. Christiniaty forgot the transcendant aspect of christianity, it has become bourgeois and overly focused on morals.
But such is the state of the world at the gates of the apocalypse.
I think you're fighting a needless battle though. Remember what Jesus says "Don't give that which is holy to the dogs, neither throw. your pearls before the pigs, lest perhaps they trample. them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

I'm not saying humble and ""ignorant""" (from a doctrinal PoV) believers are swine, but you get my point. If someone is pious and sincerely loves God… Who cares if he's a total ignorant? Not everyone is fit for metaphysics.

I must add though, ever since I've understood the real point of chastity it has much easier to battle lust rather than the "don't touch your peepee, God is watching"

God bless you

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It is an argument. Those religions doesn't give a hoot about moralism then it leads to trannies and homos. Hinduism have prostitutes, cannibals, and trannies because they don't give he is about moralism. You're just an internet Christian with low iq btw and you should not care about metaphysics if you know you're low iq(because you included Islam even though it is obviously moralistic and clueless about Hindus)

It is pretty funny that you resort to ad hominem in your reply. You don't have an argument other than "muh fags" and resorting to calling me stupid. You do not represent your brethren well in doing such things.
It's not even clearing what you are arguing. There are insane people in every religion. I don't care much for eastern religions, but you clearly don't understand that Cannibalism is not accepted by mainstream Hinduism and that Sufi Islam is far beyond mere moralism. By your argument, I could point to liberal Anglican pastors and claim that its justified by Christianity to have LGBT leaders. I'm not really concerned with arguing other religions right now though. It wasn't the purpose of the thread.

Nah f uck off faggot. There's no such thing as contemplation in Christianity. Go back to kissing Spinoza's ass. Lol you're refencing sufis? They literally spin to experience God. You silly faggot aghori cannibal meet in the kumbh each year to celebrate what ever the hell they are celebrating. They are unhygenic and eat corpses.

In case you didn't know Christian's don't contemplate, we rely on revelation.

Cry about muh adhominem you faggot

Christians don't speak like that, regardless of whatever point you're trying to make.

Lol imagine being so mad at a simple theological discussion. I assume you are not Christian, since having no contemplation or spirituality in your religion isn't something to be proud of. Either way, there definitely is contemplation in Christianity both in Catholicism and Orthodoxy, so I don't even know what you are trying to get at. You contradict yourself. And no, I did not reference Spinoza at all. He is irrelevant to traditional religion.

I think OP that focus and pre-occupation with one's sinful nature, no matter how small the sin, is a natrual consequence of becoming saintly and sanctified through your life, whereby due to relinquishing sin and aligning your will with God's, you become closer to God and by extension come to understand his holiness, that is, his separateness by virtue of his sinlessness, or perfection, that even the most minor sin or miss of the mark from this perfection that is God is magnified and revealed to be the horror that it truely is - namely evil, or the lack of God (goodness). God necessarily abhors all sin by virtue of his nature, so it's only natural that this abhorence is reflected in the most saintly people, and ofc there's the humble element that others have mentioned where they see the sin in themselves, which is what they're responsible for and have the potential will to address, rather than pointing to other's and their faults and blaming them. Don't know if any of this made sense might be a ramble.

So what does reductionist mean to you? Am I a metaphysical reductionist? Hmmm, smells like bait, but I'll let it be.

Morality is the road to transcendence though, you can even fall off the path and have wondrous metaphysical visions, and still be enslaved by sin. I think you're basically opening up the false dilemma between faith and works when you go down this road, and nothing much else. All you have done when you said "metaphysics is more important than ethics" was itself reductionist, or at least just ill-advised. Faith and works, or metaphysics and ethics compliment each other naturally. Just shifting to more philosophical terms doesn't change the fundamental lay of the land from a Christian point of view.

This is my one major disagreement; eastern religions are the epitome of bourgeois inside and out. How many Brahmins and Imams do you really need to observe before you realize that there supposed "spirituality" is little more than a facade for exploiting Talmudic legalism for economic gains. Why do you think people in those parts of the world never developed economically beyond a certain point? Simple, the priestly caste taught everyone that if anyone should gain too much wealth, the Brahmins or the Vizers would swoop in like vultures and apply a host of arbitrary laws until they had extracted the last penny you owned. False religions are extremely lucrative…

The fact that metaphysics is more important than ethics is self evident. Ethics are all based upon metaphysical principles. Without a belief in a higher cause, all ethics become relative. It is not enough to say "Don't murder." We don't murder, as you know, because man is made in the image of God. Perhaps you were thinking that I was equating metaphysics solely with contemplation or gnosis. Such was not my intent. What I was saying was that there is too much emphasis on ethical principles as if they stand alone and too little emphasis on their relation to the divine.

To address your other point, literally every established religion has exploited the people for economic reasons at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is there. Catholicism has done it, Orthodoxy has done it, Protestantism has done it, and every eastern religion has done it. It is bad no matter what form it takes. There are other reasons for lack of economic development though. All traditional religions do not place emphasis on economic growth. It wasn't until Calvin that Christians even began to allow lending money at interest, the backbone of modern economic growth. The development of the temporal was simply not of major concern to Christians or heathens alike until the secular world began to dominate.
You didn't address how Christianity is utilitarian by the way.

-wrong. Qualities specific to them and not to Christianity clearly have no salvific power and admiration of them to the point of slagging off the saints is a sign of spiritual pollution.

Most people can understand Ethic intuitively, but not everyone can grasp metaphysics. It's not a question of which is more important, but straight foreword moral teaching is more important than naval gazing transcendent realities that are beyond mortal reason. Christianity is easy for the common man to understand, but it's depths are infinite.

Such a black and white view of other religions is of not benefit to anyone. By that logic Christianity shouldn't have studied Plato or Aristotle solely based on the fact they were pagan. There is much to be learned about other religions that can help one understand one's own from another angle.
I do agree that we shouldn't be syncretic, but if simply learning about other beliefs makes you worried, you clearly are insecure about losing your faith.


That's fair to say, but I don't think metaphysics and contemplation should be relegated simply because it cannot be understood by the majority. Narrow is the way, after all. Turning Christianity into just a code of laws is exactly why so many have left the faith. There was a strong tradition of true spirituality in the middle ages but it has since been lost in the dump of rationalism.

Prelest.
The purpose of life isn't to feel good. Giving up the fight is easy, it feels better, but Satan doesn't need to turn you into a great sinner to damn you. He's perfectly content to leave you alone in your placidity as long as you are in his camp.

This entire post is projection. Christianity denounces sin but it is more than just being a self pitying faggot.