One of the modern interventions that bible and Christians hardly clarify is the donation of reproductive cells. In several case of marriage either or both the husband or wife are infertile and if the couple still wishes to have a child, one method is to utilize foreign sperm or eggs into the mistress's womb.
Would this not be considered adultery because the person who gives their DNA will combines with the donor's (not their partner's) or can adultery only be characterized under a personal interaction between people?
My non-clergy speculation on this is yes, because if you are infertile and want children, it's probably the better Christian thing to do to adopt one of the many children who do not have parents than to go out of the way to reject that option in favor of a workaround that involves your own seed/womb interacting with one not of your wife/husband.
But I'm not an authority on the matter. That said, I don't know if surrogacy (having a genetically whole zygote put into your womb) would count.
Jason Carter
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P86.HTM "Techniques that entail the dissociation of husband and wife, by the intrusion of a person other than the couple (donation of sperm or ovum, surrogate uterus), are gravely immoral. These techniques (heterologous artificial insemination and fertilization) infringe the child's right to be born of a father and mother known to him and bound to each other by marriage. They betray the spouses' "right to become a father and a mother only through each other."166 It is adultery.
One has to masturbate in order to donate the sperm to the spank-bank. So thats a sin right there in it's own right. Couples going for what you suggest means that another person has to sin in order for you to make a baby. If one has to pay another to sin in order to accomplish something, that something is a sin as well. It's still a sin. Literally the husband's sperm is fertilizing another woman's egg. As Catholicanon already pointed out here
>These techniques infringe the child's right to be born of a father and mother known to him and bound to each other by marriage.
Please explain why surrogate you believe surrogate pregnancies are bad.
Dominic Ortiz
But going further, we are playing God when we plant fertilized eggs inside of another woman. We are usurping the natural process God intended for us to be making babies and substituting it for an artificial way that God never intended for us. On top of that it isn't healthy for the surrogate mother. You see, carrying a live human in your womb for 9 months creates a bonding process between the woman and child. Once that surrogate goes through the labor pains and the baby comes out the two begin the bonding process. Take the child away and the surrogate runs the risk of enduring emotional pain. Than there is the physical risks that a surrogate mother can run into. In order to ensure the surrogate gets pregnant, multiple eggs are fertilized and implanted inside of her. If all of them attach to the womb than there is a risk that a cesarean birth will need to be made, as well as gestational diabetes, fetal growth restriction, pre-eclampsia, and premature birth. All of which can cause more pain in the surrogate. The drug, Lupron, which is used to transfer embryos, has also been documented to put surrogate women at risk for increased intracranial pressure. God forbid the pregnancy result in death, but it has happened before. If one wanted to make a femenist argument, one could say that surrogacy commodifies the woman's body, degrades pregnancy into a service, and turns babies into a product. There are more reasons to be agianst it that I can put in here but I don't want to LOOOONG post and than have to give you a TL;DR.
When artificial wombs are invented, would you have no problems regarding their use?
Dylan Clark
Seriously? If am already agianst something that is unnatural and agianst what God intended, what makes you think something even MORE unnatural will change my mind?
How do you determine whether something is unnatural or against what God intended?
Connor Kelly
Revelation and Natural Theology.
Andrew Martin
How do artificial wombs go against those?
Nathan Butler
You are joking right? Please tell me you are just concern trolling. Sex is the natural way for babies to be made. Humans have been doing exactly that since God made Adam and Eve. It's how God intends for us to make babies and healthy families. Anything less than that is man-made and by definition, unnatural.
Just read your bible and go to Church, user. Both will teach you all you need to know for what God wants for us.
How do you know this? Sex was the only way for conception to happen for most of human history, until recently, both of us agree on that, but what you're doing is going further than that and describing God's preferences. Is there anything in scripture that prohibits invitro fertilization?
I also want to clarify another point, I made this post>>772899. I'm not sure if artificial wombs will ever be invented or widely used.
Jordan Young
Also, I was referring to cases of Invitro Feritilization when NO zygotes are destroyed.
Dominic Reed
I told you already, read your Bible. Did you not pay attention to what I told you about the bonding process women go through with their babies during pregnancy? God designed us to procreate via sex for a reason. Sex in marriage helps a man and a woman make a strong and healthy family.
What I want to know is why are you so obsessed with growing kids in bags? Are you afraid no woman will ever love you? Are you a race worshiper that thinks you can build an übermench in a bag? Are you an unironic MGTOW? Are you on drugs? Why are you like this, user?
Be fruitful an multiply, not adopt the cast-offs of other people. Having babies is always the better choice. Adoption is for bleeding heart snobs who hate themselves.
Jose Nelson
Now this is where I catch you and teear you to pieces. Masturbation is sinful exactly because the seed is being wasted, but in this case the seed isn't being wasted, it's put to it's intended purpose, which is a good thing. When Onan masturbated he sinned because he came outside of the woman, and that is why it was considered a sinful act, not because of the masturbatory act in and of itself. This is actually in scripture, look it up.
Christian Miller
If I'm a gay man with a lesbian fiancé, am I going against God's will by marrying her for simply wanting to have kids? We don't love each other, at least not in the sense you'd expect from a straight couple. We just both really want to be parents. We will probably use reproductive technology too, because I can't really get aroused by a woman (like not at all), and if I used a pill, I would probably be unable to achieve ejaculation with a woman.
Ethan Lee
For the record I still didn't have sex with her after 4 years of dating. Dating means we do stuff together. Movies, dance, swimming, etc.
Not every woman is physically able to bare children the way that you prefer.
Juan Wright
Polygamy is a biblical principle and not forbidden. (Muh catholic rage) many biblical figueres had maids/ housemaids, who where considered part of the house
OT law, allows for maids to bear children without the nessesety of marriage. For this Jacob and Abraham had kids of their maids, without a legal marriage. In many countries even israel it was acceptable and the bible does not condem it.
For adoption, I dont like it, and I think it foes against biblical principle, for the son/kid was supposed to carry on his fathers lineage, and adopting a kid, by this putting your name on it, is bad. Not only did you steal a kid, but your seed is lost. You may pick up a kid and support it, but it will never be yours
So if the child bearer is under your care/ authorityduring that time it should be ok, but just paying someone for it like a job should not be ok.
Justin Butler
HUSBAND PENIS IN WIFE VAGINA
Thomas Brown
a man will leave his mother and father and be united to his wife. the two become one flesh. monogamy.
Jordan Williams
Yeah, ever notice how a husband or wife isn't excused from adultery because "I'm just trying to be fruitful bro"
Levi Sullivan
The Catholic church condemns IVF, but I think if it's done in love and the child is told that one of their parents isn't their real, genetic parent and they were made to continue a bloodline and introduced to the sperm/egg donor, it's forgivable with confession.
Onan's sin wasn't just masturbation; he pulled out of his brother's wife instead of ferilizing her as scripture demands.
Using brothers/sisters to reproduce seems to be acceptable to God.
Damn yourself to save your bloodline. God won't blame the children.
From a secular point of view, I couldn't imagine the surrogate mother or the egg donor not having something to do with the kids.
Often, they implant multiple eggs, and murder the babies that form until you have one or two left. That is 100% wrong - abortion is horrific for any reason.
Also, for IVF they give egg donors drugs which can ruin their lifes. Dozens of eggs will be released, which are then sold to multiple infertile people.
I'm going to be honest; the eugenics angle attracts me. Also, CRISPR can be used to assure every implanted embryo has the hair, eye and skin color you want.
Evan Morgan
It's threads like these that make me wonder about some Christians…
Well, hopefully this post is enough to convince people that adoption is okay.
Isaiah Adams
Maybe God has other plans for that woman (ie is humbling her for a sin she committed in the past or He wants her to adopt, etc).
Isaiah Cook
So does Jesus. Matthew 5:28 KJV
Isaiah Sullivan
Masturbation isn't sinful because it's pleasurable. It's sinful because it's a sexual act that is not open to the conception of children. If you masturbate IN ORDER TO HAVE CHILDREN, it is no longer sinful, because the natural purpose of sexual release is fulfilled even if a in a more nuanced manner.
But do go ahead and pretend as if I said that masturbation is okay no matter what…
Ryan Jenkins
It's only okay as long as you fulfill the "fruitful and multiply" command too.
Jace Martinez
This is heresy, you cannot abuse God's infinite mercy for your own vanity (bloodline).
Chase Butler
...
Chase Morris
The absolute state of prot theology
Jaxson Brown
That's a strawman. He argued that masturbation for the sake of using the semen to produce a child isn't a sin of lust since it wasn't for pleasure, not that masturbation isn't a sin because it's pleasurable.
Gabriel Gutierrez
Stop quiting this pre fall command you winnie the poohtard YOU ARE THE CAST OFF ADOPTED INTO GOD'S FAMILY YOU WANT TO BE MORE CHRISTLIKE YOU ADOPT YOU LUKEWARM LARPER
Jacob Walker
Actually I'm a catholic. And Mastrubation is sinful because the seed is wasted and it's a sexual act that is closed to the possibility of childbirth. However if for whatever reason jerking off is the way for you to have kids because the normal method doesn't work for you and your wife, I'd say it's okay for you to do it in that case.
But otherwise just do normal benis in bagina sex, because that is the natural, intended way.
Joshua Perez
I don't see you destroying Sodom and Gomorrah with napalm tbh…
Anthony Baker
That's a highly fascinating situation. I can't tell if you're larping or not, but if you arent, what a bizarre idea. I'm curious to see how it works
Hudson Rodriguez
All those unnatural ways of making babies are completely condmend by the Catholic Church and think its even an excomunicable offense. I think Humanis Vitae talks about this for example, and the catechism of course. Adopt a kid if you really want kids. Anything else is an offense to the human life and the dignity of the embryo or outright adultery like making a baby with a donor, making that child a bastard. Only through the love of parents during the sexual act a life must be formed, not with the help of a third party in a lad who treats embryos just like some biological material.
Daniel Evans
Love isn't all about just liking of partner physically. But you really need to have relations with her to have kids. Although in your case I wouldn't do it because kids should have parents that really love eachother in a marital way. The best for you and your girlfriend is to live a life of celibate and live like brothers if you wish, since you guys don't feel attracted to each other. I'd avoid having kids because of a bad example and suffering that might cause in their lives.
Ian Price
Abraham and Sarah, Zechariah and Elizabeth, others - couples who thought they were infertile but conceived anyway because it was the Lord's will, not by by finding a third party.
Adrian King
Onan didn't masturbate, he pulled out of his wife's sister and 'spilled his seed on the ground'. Masturbation is thus inferred to be sinful, because by jerking off you too are spilling your seed upon the 'ground'; ground here referring to any place that isn't inside a woman (i.e. your sock still counts).
