If I remember correctly, I once read a passage from the letters of Paul that said unbelieving people are hell bound...

If I remember correctly, I once read a passage from the letters of Paul that said unbelieving people are hell bound? Is that true?

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Hebrews 11:5-6

Furthermore Baptism is necessary for salvation. We are all born with the inherited consequences of Adam's sin and only Baptism, Chrismatio, and Communion can give us salvation. And none of the sacraments can be received without faith.

t. Orthodox, since I know Protestats and Catholics don't believe this

no there was something about the unbelieving. not that part what you posted but different.

Every mention of unbelief I can find:

Romans 3:1-6

Romans 4:16-22

Romans 11:19-24

1 Corinthians 6:1-6

1 Corinthians 7:12-16

1 Corinthians 14:22-25

2 Corinthians 6:14-18

1 Timothy 1:12-17

1 Timothy 5:3-8

Titus 1:10-16

Hebrews 3:7-19

thx

Catholic here. We obviously believe in the necessity of faith and the sacraments with the sacraments serving as an extension/expression of faith based on biblical practices in the NT… just before sola fide gets thrown out like every time we talk about these sorts of things We just don't think that we as earthly sinners are in a position to say with certainty who goes to heaven or hell. It's a point of humility, not lack of belief.

If we didn't believe in the necessity of faith and the sacraments, why would we practice either?

A Catholic told me in another thread that it is not necessary for the one being baptized to have faith.

What do you mean? Faith is a very important part of the process.

See the discussion there: >>774405

He's wrong. You can be baptized and lose faith later on, but if you have faith you are to be baptized. Hence why we both baptize and anoint adult converts after catechism if they weren't baptized as children.

I don't know who told you otherwise, but they need to read up on this stuff.

I am talking about faith being necessary on the part of the one being baptized, such as that baptizing someone who doesn't have faith makes the baptism invalid. What I was told is that for Catholics, this is true for Communion, but not for Baptism, which is why Communion is kept for when someone reaches an age of reason.

As far as I knew Orthodox practiced infant baptism still. Has this changed? Or was my initial source wrong?…

Either way if a parent fulfills their duty to "bring their children up in the way of the lord" the child should be of faith. As far as adults go, can't think of a case where a person who lacks faith would be baptized. But the point is that you can stray from the promises of your baptism to the point that it's meaningless, yes. I'm not sure if their is a stance on whether or not you suddenly regain original sin or not, but your fate is the same either way… Actually according to St. Peter, your fate is worse if you have been baptized and sin than if you were never part of the faith at all.

The communion info is accurate to my understanding though.

Did you simply not click on what I sent?

From an Orthodox POV: Baptism is necessary for salvation, and one must have faith to receive it. If one does not have the mental capacities to have faith, their godparents intercede with their own faith and take on the mission to make sure the person's future faith will be in line with their engagement.
Likewise for Chrismation.
Likewise for Communion.

But why doesn't the same apply to Communion?

From what I know, the responsibility of nurturing a child's faith fall onto the parents and godparents in Catholicism; the process of growing this faith as you mature and reach levels of higher understanding (as several mysteries in the church are difficult to grasp, especially for the young) is part of the reason why age of reason and confirmation were conceived to 'gate' aspects of the teachings of the church.

The anointing process in baptism for both children and adults acts as a means of saving you from original sin; all sins thereafter are a product of you falling short, as it tends to happen.

Didn't notice a link, sorry.

We do the same thing generally, only both the Godparents and Parents take on responsibility.


I misspoke. I was referring to confirmation (since adults who go through RCIA are typically baptized and confirmed on the same day from my experience).

Just want to chim in here and say that when we say you are justified by faith alone we are not being arrogant. The hymn rock of ages puts it quite well by saying "nothing in my hand I bring simply to thy cross I cling". It's not a matter of being arrogant or not but rather one of trust that Christ did die and was raised up for our sins and because of this we can trust him and be assured of our salvation. The knowledge of knowing about our place in heaven gives us peace and joy.
We are putting our full trust in God's work on the cross.

Catholic here.
I'd say that first come the Spirit and later the physical sacrament. The flesh is nothing without Spirit so a sacrament without faith it's empty. But if you REALLY have faith, is asking too much to be baptized or confirmed or else? I'd say no. Baptizing a baby is a way of welcoming a new member in the Christian community but It doesn't guarantee you salvation. That's my non canonical opinion.

OP here, i meant Revelation 21:8

Aah. No wonder I couldn't find it. I assume you got it confused with 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Frankly, if God is too much of a coward to step up and take responsibility for his actions and his followers are more than happy to enable his reckless behaviour under the common argument "muh free will exonerates God", why should I, or anyone, even bother following the impotent retard?

I see now why the kikes laugh at Christianity. It's a joke religion predicated entirely behind 'Heaven on a Stick,' don't mess up or you're going to suffer for eternity! This farce is unnecessary.

I spit on god.

Really just think about it. If your son murdered his brother then of course he should be punished. But wouldn't you contemplate your failures as a father?

God isn't infallible, so why would I follow him?