How did it come about, is there basis for it in the scripture?
Is it ultimately a good practice, if yes, then why?
We're time and time again called to action to preach be active, help others, spread the word, lead by example for unbelievers and celebrate Christ together with fellow Christians.
Often times such things are said, some even go as far as saying one can't be a Christian for long if he is secluded from the world.
Then why is being a hermit or a monk considered good and why is it an acceptable form of seclusion that came about?
It's the only real Christian way to live in my opinion. Protestants are full of s hit hence why they condemn this practice and look at where there are now lol. They just love to world too much. I don't care if it's unbiblical, it's either God or something in-between.
Jack Roberts
It started early on in Christian history, Ancient Christians getting fed up with the sins of society and heading out into the wilderness to live as hermits. Modern monasticism is built off the lifestyle of those ancient aesetics.
Lincoln Cox
It is not a good practice in lifestyle. It is predicated on a very low emphasis on the great commission. There's no reason to say it's wrong to take an occasional sabbatical and retreat to the wilderness, Jesus modeled that, but He came back and preached the gospel. Living a simple life fasting from worldly things is also good, but monasticism means leaving society. What good are you if you if you have the news of salvation and deliberately leave everyone? You're lighting a lamp and hiding it under a bushel.
They might leave ==society== behind, but they spend their entire day praying for everyone in the world and that they may come to know Christ. Some even say that it is by their prayers that the world hasn't destroyed itself yet. Whether or not you believe that you can surely agree that prayer on behalf of others is extremely powerful and necessary.
Caleb Cox
Yeah ok you hedonistic filth. Out of all the world religions Protestants have garbage tier metaphysics if any at all and dumb traditions too. Keep rationalizing your materialistic wants about having a wife and loving the world.
Brody Ross
I'd say its good in the same way that celibacy is good; if a man does not marry he can stay focused on the Lord and living as he commanded, but most people are not called to such a life. The same applies to monasticism, some people simply are called to live away from modern degeneracy, I can only imagine what Monastics from 1000 years ago would think if they were alive today, they'd probably faint.
John Hernandez
The West began to decline when Christianity lost its monastic tradition.
Levi Morgan
I'm not the one rationalizing here bro, look in a mirror sometime.
John Ross
That's not the life for me, personally I can't fulfill my goals without interacting with the outside world. I can't live my life in silence. I can go as far as saying that silence will depress me out. God wants me to speak out and help the world unite.
I'm tired of people who say that degeneracy can only be modern. The barbarians were far more degenerate than we modern people could ever imagine. I don't think we are called to be misanthropes.
Luke Collins
yeah quote me
Brayden Miller
Lol bullshit. There weren't as much drugs and technology back then. No, don't ask what people do just to feel good.
Pilpul all you want. All communist,feminist and postmodernist argue like this. Protestants are to blame for the modern world we live in today.
Justin Rodriguez
I guess you're conceding that that was rationalizing huh
Nathaniel Price
Why are you trying to turn this into another denominational shit-flinging thread right off the bat? You do realize that there are Lutheran and Anglican monestaries right?
Jace Green
Anything but rationalization
Aiden Phillips
Throwing one of the most important practices out of the window because you love coochie too much deserves flaming in my book.
Blake Martin
Oh I see, you're shitposting. Carry on.
Ryan Fisher
Monasticism is like all basically good things; good when done properly, bad when done improperly. Some are called to it, others to serve the faith in other ways (Romans 12:6-8), but isolation should be a tool rather than a dogma. It only directly helps yourself to isolate yourself in prayer, your prayers can help others, but there are superior ways for aiding others than simply locking oneself away forever in prayer. We can't all forever be anchorites (Matthew 5:15), but isolation can be used to dispel arrogance and impatience in men's hearts. Some monastics seem to venture on cult-esque mentalities when it comes to absolute obedience towards spiritual "fathers" (Symeon the New Theologian and some of the Desert Fathers were bad in this regard, almost worshiping their spiritual fathers) which seems in direct contradiction to Christ's teaching of equality (Matthew 23:9) and not serving two masters (Matthew 6:24). The stated purpose being to create humility, but it is often abused. Some of these practices of prayer seem to verge on mystic pagan nonsense (breathing techniques, visions, and other manner of "spiritual" practices which seem utterly un-Christian.) You have to remember also that the Desert Fathers and early monks also often didn't have the entirety of scripture, they only have excerpts of the teachings of Christ, thus they are hardly masters of Biblical teachings. A lot of the Desert Fathers also seem to display an almost misanthropic view of others, and venture on being plain prideful about their spiritual progress. Monks are still human, subject to human desires and whims, pride and lust and all other temptations. It's a case-by-case basis. The underlying ideas of humility, self-control, and giving up all earthly things are good, but being a good Christian is more complicated than spiritual mysticism; it also means preaching the Gospel and serving your community, even having and loving your family.
Maybe this can help answer your question, I just assumed that monasticism is good because the object of Christianity is to be withdrawn from the world. The choice being in how far you take it, which depends only on whether you are willing to do such a supererogatory work.
plenty it has a 1700 years history (as an organized practise, Christian hermits existed already before then), nothing bad has ever come out of it, quite the contrary monks do all the above and in a pretty way than most of today's Christians the world as in worldly concerns to put it briefly, not as in the creation or life
Joshua Watson
Says the non-monastic.
Chase Myers
You probably know more than me, but maybe you're jumping the gun. Monastics and ascetics who follow everything their spiritual father says have discovered that the profit in obedience is not so much to do with anything you are supposed to do, but merely that you suffer it in a Christ-like way.
Carson White
Symeon wrote that he revered his spiritual father as if he was a co-creator. The Desert Fathers speak of being in awe at their masters as if they were divine. If the point is to learn humility by suffering under another, this can accomplished with almost any leader, such as a biological father or a king or a employer. If the point is gain spiritual knowledge, then there is no need to venerate the person above you as if they are divine themselves, since they are merely another mortal teaching you something. When I read a book that I learn something from, I do not revere the author, I am simply glad that God has given me knowledge through this outlet. Knowledge and Wisdom comes from God, not men; to ascribe this to men ventures on heresy. This is one of the things I really harbor a great deal of trouble with in regards to monasticism; humility does not mean doing the will of one who does not deserve to have his will enacted, it means not viewing oneself as greater than anyone because arrogance is a destructive thing. I understand the purpose, the problem lies in the practice; only God can guide a man, to serve two masters is to be a fool for the temporal master's sake, and the expense of the eternal. I'll work for many, but I only truly serve One.
Asher Sanders
1) Monastics started because they felt society wasn't living up to the early church that was full of martyrs, once the church became legalized. So they found a way of denying themselves in new way, while still living
2) The "Great Commision" excuse is a bit silly.. these people became so legendary that the world learned about them anyways, and were inspired to take up some of their devotion. Why do you think we even know about them 1500 years later? It was outsiders who told us of them. They're so well known to this day that lay people buy books of the monastics. If you live a strong enough life in Christ, you couldn't stop the light from shining even if you tried.
3) Catholic and Orthodox are still the largest body of Jesus' followers, across a wide swathe of the globe and multiple cultures. So it's not like one can say they're slacking off on spreading the gospel.
Zachary Russell
John the Baptist?
David Baker
if Catholics aren’t following an order directly from the Bible, and Prots are, then that means that we Prots are in there right here
Nathaniel Brown
Thanks, I'm rather ignorant of the desert fathers and what they did. As I said Monasticism just sounds good to me as an extreme form of Christian values. It can be used wrongly too I know.
Benjamin Bennett
you should really research the history of monasticism before you assume they just go to the woods to leave the world permanently. the "bible thumping jack grizzly woodsman" cliche is a Protestant phenomenon
there's more than enough precedent for monasticism, and again, monks have a social mission, they aren't just secluded away from society like asian white beards in the mountains
Gavin Adams
When Christianity became the official state religion of the Byzantine Empire, it naturally led to the dynamic between Church and state changing. Some people wanted to flee from this and went to the desert to dedicate themselves to prayer.
The prophets, including the last Old Testament prophet, St John.
It is a good practice. It is spiritual martyrdom for those who cannot suffer martyrdom by the shedding of blood, or martyrdom through unconditional love in marriage.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Monasticism isn't secularism.
The point of monasticism isn't to be isolated from all things but to be isolated from worldly things to experience the Kingdom of God directly through prayer, humility, social work, etc. then give back to the world through intercessions, spiritual direction, and so on.
Monks do not hide the light of Christ they've received. They nurture it then come back to the world to share it.
… Why do people use the "great commission" argument as if you yourself had ever baptized someone anyway? Every member of the Church plays a different role. Monks help those who fulfill the great commission, and therefore the mission of the Church as a whole, by diving deep into the Kingdom of God and coming back to tell the tale, when the rest of the Church is too weak to do so. Furthermore, spiritual fathers are gifted with prophecy.
more than that, the monasteries played an educational role in both Latin and eastern traditions, there's quite a bit the monasteries gave back to whatever part of the world they were in
Henry Ramirez
The first instruction of the great commission is make disciples
Benjamin Morgan
If anything, monks are so good at their jobs that people actively seek them out and go on retreats so those people can obtain some of their wisdom.
Look at Mt. Athos. It's an island community of monks, literally secluded from the modern world and surrounded by torrental waters, and yet laymen still come in by the boat load to come learn from them everyday. On top of that, monks can write books and have books written about them, thus giving another Avenue of Christ's light to shine in our dark world.
Just because they aren't knocking on people's doors and annoying them doesn't mean they aren't sharing the Gospel with people like Christ commands.
First instruction? The great commission is a single instruction - to make disciples, that is, to baptize them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But how do we convey the faith to people so that they may become disciples to begin with? After all the experience of the Kingdom of God does not begin and end at the scriptures. That is why monks, after experiencing God, write about it, therefore presenting a side of Christianity that councils and catechisms alone do not suffice to show. And after these disciples have become disciples, what do we do with them? Do we leave them be? Or is it rather that the members of the Church are rocks supporting one another, and those with more faith and gifts help those with less faith and gifts? Because in that case monks, by giving spiritual direction, help those who need such help. And monks, by showing what it can mean to bear one's cross and follow Jesus, to forsake the world to follow Jesus, motivate those who live in the world and may forget otherwise the potential that Christianity has. And indeed, the great commission is to make disciples. But it takes a lifetime to truly become a disciple, to truly convert, to truly become a Christian, a "little Christ". By giving sustenance to those who have been baptized, monks indeed do fulfill the great commission. By their prophetic works, elders edify the Church and help the heart of the Body of Christ to pump blood (that is, the Holy Spirit), so to speak.
But beyond these things, monks also pray for the whole world. They pray for more disciples to be made, they pray for more shepherds to come, they pray for the salvation of all.
Thomas Clark
okay, you're identifying "baptism" as a function of "making disciples". That's fine.
I am not saying that finding retreat and fervent prayer are negative. What I am saying is that monasticism as a lifestyle is contradictory to evangelism. Living in a monastery and still going into society can be thought of as a soft-monasticism, but in strict terms monastics completely abandon the world.
Samuel Taylor
Mount Athos is on a peninsula.
Nolan Green
You know monks hiding in the woods is a prot meme started by those that never bothered to learn history…right?
Case in point, the Dominican Monastic Order. They singlehandedly stopped one of the early Protestant sects the cathars/albegensians by going around and praying the rosary with people. They were active members of the community that sacrificed all the world's pleasures to fully dedicate themsleves to God's mission.
James Hall
Implying that monks betray the Great Commission is willful ignorance to make an ideological, denominational point against apostolic Christianity. Monastics have converted more people through their writing, prayer and spiritual direction than the protestant critics on this board could ever dream of. Monks have written the most influential and insightful theological and apologetic treatises in all of Church history and have preserved knowledge on behalf of Western Civilization (Christendom) for as long as it's existed. Their tireless efforts copying bibles and ancient texts were instrumental in preserving the Church and allowing it to be a light to all the nations. Monks are the reason there was ever a Christendom at all. They continue in this role today, writing and counseling the faithful to strengthen them in their faith. Even putting that reality aside, to say that dedicating your entire existence to praying on behalf of the Church and for the conversion of the entire world is neglecting your Christian duty is to say that you don't believe in the supernatural power of prayer. As far as I'm concerned it's adjacent to atheism. To be anti-monasticism is to be deeply and disgustingly un-Christian.
Monasticism if for those who have a calling to remain celibate, but if you cannot hold passions of lust or you feel that your calling is to remain a laymen you get married. Monks are not of the world, laymen are of the world and to live in the world without having a wife is not something you should do as it leads to temptations and strong passions
I'm in some other odd category, I guess.. of a semi-monastic layman. I don't plan to be tonsured and tbh… I have issues with authority on that level… so I wouldn't be a good monastic. That's another thing people need to be sure of before trying this. It's an orderly life, and I'm a little more lazy and relaxed.. despite having similar vows. I can commit to celibacy, but monasticism and clergy is kind of like the military in some ways. There are some tough guys who can't survive basic training because they lack the discipline. It's kind of the same here.
I kind of halfway thought I'd eventually get married, but it never happened.. and I feel it's too late to worry about anymore. So I've commited to this middle path.
People had fun with torturing other human beings instead. Look up medieval torture devices and be grateful that you live in this era of love and humanity.
Tyler Harris
M-marrying a bear?! Please, don’t tempt me…
Dominic Martin
"Come on, user, come and marry me … everybody in Russia is doing it."
OP here, lots of great answers thank you everyone, I now feel bad that I underestimated these mens' contribution to the world and Christianity as a whole.
Xavier Sanders
There weren’t monks in ante-nicene Christianity. Most Ante-Nicene fathers were anti-celibacy(citing the married apostles) so that was an obstacle right there. The closest thing would perhaps be the Egyptian “Theraputae” in the first century, if they truly were Christian (Eusebius thinks so). Except, they lived in familial communes. And they didn’t really last. Monasticism requires the help of a state-level Government, so it’s no surprise that it grew in early Byzantium.
Isaac Ortiz
How are the demonic images of the modern world not torture?
prove it. how can one be "anti-celibacy" without being anti-Christ? not even going into what St. Paul said, either.
Gabriel Bell
Citations please! There is no way those pagan barbarians have anything on transexualism, and the disgusting levels of hedonism and fornication that we are witnessing today. Even they had standards! Too bad we lost them today and out only standard is "satisfy muh desires nao!"
Chase Mitchell
Like the user above me said, "prove it".
As for why they weren't monastic, you apparently haven't read much of this thread. The reason they weren't monastic is because many of them were martyrs. All monasticism was was a later period when martyrdom was more a thing of the past, and some people felt it was wrong to participate in society suddenly. They honored the ante-nicene martyrs by practicing a form of martyrdom in their own lives, as best they could.
Aaron Roberts
The laity being disappointed by how rigidly hierarchical and lucrative the Sacerdot business had become and decided holiness can be decided by them.
IMO no matter how simple and true these laymen are, they will still remain that, laymen not officiated in the authority of the church.
Many Protestants have great respect for the monastic tradition and visit monasteries all the time. It's just that they didn't have a clue about it a few decades ago and to some of them it still looks "exotic"
