Christ's promise and the Catholic Church

Everything points otherwise and the primus inter pares bs is a recent novelty.
All you orthos do is look at the evidence of the scriptures and the early Church fathers and close your ears repeatedly saying its not what the Bible says. Just like the prots when they say the Bible doesn't teach the real presence or some other obvious Catholic teaching.

I take it you're a Sede?

Honest question: Where do you yourself get the authority to "recognize" anyone or not in the first place? And if not you, where does this come from? How up the food chain is it, where the recognition is suddenly valid?

youtube.com/watch?v=NTsALPiiO-o

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There are several accounts from christian historians from the 4th century about the privileges of the bishop of Rome, so spare us the "primus inter pares" retarded nonsense that has never existed

Yes, it's troubling, but honestly, I think JP2's thoughts are simply the result of preexisting notions already in Catholicism - like too much reliance in the old days of using Plato and Aristotle to argue the existence of God. And the notion of an absolutely simple divinity that all can know something about through nature.. if just a little. I'll always say this is a dangerous thought, and shouldn't be emphasized. Because you can indeed get carried away like JP2. The Church - and the Jews before us - is supposed to hold up REVELATION as the means to know God. Not nature.

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fpbp

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The Church is 2000 years old. It's seen the catacombs and gladiators, swords and flames, the black death, two world wars, the rise or communism, capitalist modernity, and everything in between. There was a time were there were three popes and the battle of Tours was a thing. Pope Francis and the current scandals are but a footnote. Heck, His Holiness isn't even that bad, you guys are just on image boards too much. Take some perspective, pray, and do something positive instead of complain anonymously on the internet.

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This.

The 2000 year old church. Yes, return to the 2000 year old church. The original, holy, catholic, apostolic church.

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Christ said that upon this rock He would build His Church, and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. If it comes right down to it, God will bathe the world in fire before He allows the Church to be destroyed, as we were warned at Akita. Don't fall for orthoLARP doomsaying, palamite theology is tantamount to atheism and will land you in the lake of fire.

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How's that papal supremacy going?

I love how you guys never explain how Orthodoxy is incorrect, just "its pantheism, trust us, trust muh papacy that has changed church teaching on a whim".

Orthodoxy is the catholic church, catholic just means universal. I'm not talking about the church in Rome which is not Orthodox and not catholic.

Every "change" you can point to has verifiable origins in the traditions of the Undivided Church. Palamite heresy, on the other hand, was invented in the 13th century. Saint Nicholas would have punched you people no different from the Arians.

fpbp

It's a shame that the Romans insist on using 'Catholic' in their name, since it actually means "whole", which refers to the invisible church. Compared to other denominations, the Roman church is probably home to the fewest members of the true catholic church. LOL

This last part was unnecessary. I take that back and apologize.

No I'd say that's a pretty clear majority.

Vatican I? Vatican II? To name the most egregious examples.

How is it a heresy? What about it is heretical?

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I pray every day that God will open the eyes of your people before it's too late.

He already has opened our eyes, thats why we are Catholic ;)

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So your argument is that numbers prove Roman Catholicism? How many of those are actual devout Christians?

Orthodoxy could have literally one member and it would still be the one true catholic apostolic church.

We just went over this. You're a Roman. Catholic is a title reserved for the invisible church.

Yes, a Roman Catholic. Just because you don't recognize the See of St. Peter doesn't mean St. Peter doesn't have authority. Come home to Rome, schismatic. We miss you.

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Bishop of Rome: *takes sole credit for fixing the Arian crisis* I am now Pope of everything, because I said so.

Early church fathers:

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Good question.

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I'm not a Russian so I can't really comment on that. Orthodoxy is not exclusively Russian. The Russian Orthodox went through a lot of persecution under communism so at least they have an excuse to be suffering in numbers. An optimistic estimate for Roman Catholic mass attendance weekly is 30%, but people lie in surveys so its probably half that.

Also the whole "we have the most numbers therefore we are correct theologically" argument is just wrong. That was my point.

begone, Great Whore!

Christ said nothing about Rome. Plus Peter was Bishop of Antioch even before Rome, so the same argument can be used for Antioch. If Palamite theology is so bad, we should see what fruits are born by those who studied it.

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Lol okay, buddy

Lmao

I'll be keeping both of you in my prayers tonight. I love you both.

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We are just debating. I have no ill will towards you, I don't doubt that many RCs are devout people, I just can't understand how they can declare a man like Francis to have ultimate authority over their entire church. Hint: He's a heretic and we have the quotes to prove it.

Fpbp, just give it. How much longer are we going to continue in this madness?

St. Peter had authority, and he used his authority to start his church in Antioch, which is still Orthodox. That says nothing about your man-made Pharaoh and his city-state however.

The Orthodox position on contraception until recently is that it is forbidden. Like any denomination today there is liberal infiltration in our number, but they will never prevail over Holy Orthodoxy.

I have been thinking about this for a while.
If we are to deduce that modernity is an entirely anti-traditional and more importantly anti-christian program we must find where its roots are, that is 19th and 20th century thought, based on the enlightenment, based on the renaissance, but what is the renaissance have its origins in? I have almost a resentment against the "catholic" church for this, it's fruit is modernity, it is its creator and nurturer, this was the "catholic" church at a "traditional" time. Modernity has its roots in the catholic church, and its misstep was to trust in itself more than God, that is the sin of Adam in a sense.

Why should I be catholic? A good portion of my ancestors have been trodden by them, Europe has always looked down on Turks(and the middle eastern world), even before they were turks and they were Byzantine Romans, the Catholics have done evil to my ancestors. My grandmother is pure Native American and we need no explanation for what the Protestant(and Catholic) west has done to them. The other part of my family was most likely a somewhat wealthy family engaged in the making of fabric which later emigrated to Flanders, then to Britain, then to America.

Even the first martyr in the continental United States, St Peter(Cungagnaq) the Aleut, was martyred by Catholics(Monks and Priests mind you) in San Francisco, where the "…priest had a toe severed from each of Peter's feet", "cut off each finger of Peter's hands, one joint at a time, finally removing both his hands" and "eventually disemboweled him" for refusing to convert to "Catholicism"

Even the notion of Catholicism is somehow related to Modernity and the Western World. To become catholic in some odd sense one must become western, not to dissimilar to the imperialism of the Western Roman Empire. This was not the way of the early church where the traditions and cultures of the peoples of the world were transformed through Christ to be unified with his Church. Many christanons are attracted to "Catholicism" I think for they see Christ in it, but a significant part of this thought process is most likely a sort of "western nationalism".

I am sorry for ranting like this and please let me words not dissuade any other Christanons from serving Christ, many Catholics, especially here may be most likely part of the one true church invisibly, but this matter has been bothering my mind for some time. The thing that has always discouraged me from Roman Catholicism even when I was a protestant, was this fact, that somehow it seems to be tied up with modernity in some strange way, that if the modern world is anti-christian, then whatever triggered it had a part to play, as a lustful suggestion in the mind leads to something horrible, the Patriarchate of Rome being first in authority is maybe fine according to human reason but I have always felt that human reason, though important and not a small part of our Human Experience, must not be trusted to much, let us not forget that Adam used his reason and through it he was struck unto death by the serpent, not taking into account that St. Peter being the first in earthly authority and holding the Potestas Clavium is also something not true to earthly reason but this is besides the point and not something which should be argued about.

I have most likely repeated myself some times and I am sorry for this as well, I simply had to put my thoughts out here not for anybody else but for myself to concrete this down for my own mind. I am not even properly part of the one true Orthodox and Catholic church founded by Christ himself, but I know it to be the true Church and Christ to be the Way, the Life, and the Truth. And please let many of you not feel put down by me when I say these things, Western Christianity has and has had many good things, a zeal and perseverance, and many other unique things many of which were shared by Peter himself, and it is a shame that the Western Church(Many parts of which remained Orthodox for a very long time on the local level at least) separated from the Eastern Church, not only losing many people, but also certain mental types and ideas. Western Christianity is and was good but should not be the entire scope of Christianity.

May Christ, and she who is his Mother, and all the Heavenly host bless and keep you all.

It's amazing how mischievous Lefebvre looks next to Pope Pius, a wolf standing next to a sheep.

Bingo, you got it. To elaborate on that point, see:
oodegr.com/english/filosofia/nihilism_root_modern_age.htm

Is that a CK2 icon?

Daily reminder Orthodox allow divorce and remarriage, in stark contrast with Matthew 5:32.

Idk I just like the purple design.

I think what we have there is liberal infiltration like on the contraception issue. (Although don’t pretend this doesn’t happen in RC guys, Vatican II alert) Orthodox cannon law doesn’t permit or recognise divorce but some modern bishops do. Bishops however don’t run the church, they can be deposed.

Already read it my man, Seraphim Rose is as a saint and also as an enlightener in our times of confusion.

What we know about Francis:
He was #2 in terms of election even back in 2005. They've been grooming him for the Papacy.
McCarrick was put out to pasture under Ratzinger. Bergoglio allowed him more freedom, likely because his views aligned with Bergoglio.
He penned Amoris Laetitia, which could allow for attacks on traditional marriage in the future, if we are to get a Francis II.
He involves himself greatly with world politics and buzzwords like "climate change" and "refugees". He also goes full-bore on ecumenicalism, more than any other Pope before him.
He views the Chinese state Church as legitimate.
And yes, he is my Pope, and I submit to him. Remember to pray the rosary. It's always darkest before the dawn.

I often dream about what the Roman Church could be like if it were theologically reformed and wonder if such a movement could gain traction from within, but I think it's safe to say that they have strayed so far from the truth that the entirety of the leadership now lies in the claws of Satan.

jesusisprecious.org/false_religion/roman_catholic/catholic_heresies.htm

Francis is but a symptom of Vatican II. The council's ecumenical Church is a globalist political entity now, sold out to the powers and principalities that rule this world. When the divisive Paul VI and the communist Romero are canonized, while Archbishop Lefebvre, whose only sin was refusing to give up the Holy Mass of martyrs, saints and crusaders, is excommunicated, well…

No thanks dude.

Just become Eastern Catholic my dude. We are autonomous, we have our own canon (approved by the Pope, of course) on top of the canon code of law, we have our own Patriarchs, we have our own traditions, and we submit to the Holy See, without having to suffer the afflictions of the West.

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Orthodoxy in America is blossoming. Orthodoxy in Eastern Europe is recovering from a century of Soviet overlordship. Roman Catholicism having more followers in theory right now does not mean Roman Catholicism correct. That's very lazy logic.

Is someone who goes to a Novus Ordo church counted as a true Catholic? How are they a Catholic? Just go to Novus Ordo Watch, its a clown show.

I know a lot of Orthodox who don't even have a church in their area of the U.S. Or their best option is to go to a church speaking a language they don't know. Orthodoxy had almost no presence in the West until recent centuries as opposed to Roman Catholicism. It's not a fair comparison.

The Pope is not a Christian as he prays to heathen idols and according to Canon Law is an apostate.

I will say, as a Copt, do not leave your Church brother. If we cannot stand united even in our own Churches, how will we ever end the Schism?
I weep, for example, for the "British Orthodox," Coptic Orthodox who decided to schism entirely from our Church in the 90s and are not in communion with anyone now. Before that, they were our "Western Rite," so to speak. Or the "Church of the Gauls" for the Eastern Orthodox, or the Old Catholics for the Roman Catholics. No, we must not add more schisms unto the already existing schisms by leaving your Church and joining something like the Union of Scranton. Stay where you are. God will not abandon us. The Holy Spirit works through us all, Catholic, Orthodox, and Coptic. Things look bleak but you are nowhere near the level of the Medici Popes.
If we could recover from over 1400 years of Muslim occupation and persecution, you can recover from one bad Pope.

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Coptanon, your optimism is such a breath of fresh air in this bleak world. Sadly it is more than just one bad Pope. It is a mafia of clerics that have been infected with the smoke of satan (ie liberalism and communism) thanks prots
Just gotta keep praying to God that the next Pope does something about them.

Used to be tradcath and have been considering orthodoxy. Similar reasoning to this post had a lot to do with it for me.

On the first part when it comes to the pope I've seen strong arguments from both sides, but I've always leaned towards the catholics reaching in their justification. I'd generaly agree with this guy

Palamite theology makes a lot more sense as I've looked into it, Jay Dyer recently did a debate with Classical Theist from twitter that hammered a lot of it home and cleared up some of my doubts about it. Especially when you realize the amount of stock that Catholics put into the writings of Augustine, the divergence starts to make more sense.

There's not really anything larpy about joining something like the OCA and most churches will welcome you, I'm going to attend a ROCOR one for the first time this weekend.

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Same story with me. The essence / energies distinction actually makes sense now thanks to Dyer and some essays I read online.

The traditional Catholic scene is a bit depressing tbh. You've got SSPX and sedes who are on all sorts of mental gymnastics. Everyone is lamenting the Vatican and the modernist pope, and they are hoping for a true pope that will fix everything… chosen from the college of cardinals whom they admit are deeply corrupt. Dostoevsky was right, you could take God out of the Vatican and it would function normally. It's an unholy bureaucracy, very different from how the early church functioned. Sorry for the rant.

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Orthodoxpilled and fpbp

I hope everyone here knows this is just a meme, and scholasticism isn't opposed to mysticism, which in turn has very much flourished in the Latin Catholic Church since the Schism, right?

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We don't mean mysticism as in miracles (or "miracles") such as Fatima or visions, etc. Orthodoxy doesn't accept necessarily as they may be sent from demons. Our mysticism more to do with philosophy being the handmaiden to theology as opposed to Thomism.

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Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, Question 1, Article 5

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When Christ at a symbolic moment was establishing His great society, He chose for its cornerstone neither the brilliant Paul nor the mystic John, but a shuffler, a snob, a coward - in a word, a man. And upon this rock He has built His Church, and the gates of Hell have not prevailed against it. All the empires and the kingdoms have failed, because of this inherent and continual weakness, that they were founded by strong men and upon strong men. But this one thing, the historic Christian Church, was founded on a weak man, and for that reason it is indestructible. For no chain is stronger than its weakest link.

I think it was also that Peter was the first to accept Christ as the true son of God.

Christ there is just saying that Peter is important and on the rock of his faith the church will be built. That in itself doesn't justify today's Papacy however.

Can someone explain the traddy and orthoprot meme about "the renaissance"? As in, can you even prove "the renaissance" was a real thing?

What do you mean? The Renaissance refers to a time period after the middle ages when a lot of stuff (art, technology) from antiquity was resurfacing.

It wasn't a great time for Roman Catholicism considering the Reformation was happening at the same time in Germany. Italy was under the control of the Medici banking clan. There were many sketchy Popes during the Renaissance like the Borgias.

Stop devoting your time and energy to a corrupt church that worships satan and has child rape as their main sacrament.

The church is ahead of you, not behind. What's behind is a fraud. What is coming is the true worship of Christ

So what? The claim the catholic church makes to peter's grace is a con. No pope had any relation whatsoever to Peter. The Catholic church is a church of babylonian mysticism. The emperor Constantine built a church that served the roman state, not God.

Really? Then why are priests raping so many children, and why is your pope protecting those child rapists?

The Apostles only received the authority to loose and bind in Matthew 18, St. Peter not only received the authority singularly, he received the Keys, and the promise from Christ singularly.

The authority for the other Apostles comes later, so the promise and the keys were given to St. Peter exclusively. Additionally, he really was the "first of the Apostles", by the simple fact that the rest did not receive the authority later.

On "thee" and "thou" did Christ promise that Hell would never prevail.

You've permitted it since Justinian

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No pope in history has had any relation to Peter. The catholic church and the papacy came hundreds of years after Peter died. If thye Catholic church really was the churdch of peter then peter would have made the rules, selected the scriptures for canonization, written the first catechism, ordained the first clergy, but Peter did none of those things. The Catholic church is lying when they claim that their authority comes from Peter. The corrupt Roman cult is attempting to steal the birthright of Christians in the same way that Esau tried to steal the birthright of Jacob.

The church of Rome always has been and always will be a polytheistic cult practicing babylonian mysticism under the guise of Christianity

…because it's a position, not a line of kings.

no, we have extant evidence of letters dated to at least 140 A.D. from St. Justin Martyr speaking of the Early Church, which sounds suspiciously Catholic, if not at least Apostolic.

He didn't have to, the Apostles were also given the authority in Matthew 18. This is why St. Peter is called "first of the Apostles", not "the only Apostle". That's like saying governors cannot ratify state constitutions because a President exists or something.

Well, SOMEBODY has to have the Keys to the Kingdom. It isn't anyone else but the Catholic Church.

Feel free to join the 2,000 year old peanut gallery, we'll outlive you just as Christ promised.

The position the church of Rome occupied was granted by the pagan emperor Constantine, not Peter. Peter has no relation at all to the catholic church. It's a con that catholics tell to obscure the reality that their church was started by a pagan emperor and not an apostle.

No catechism, no canonization, no pope then no catholicism. The Christian church existed before the Catholic church and it will exist long after. No6t to mention the fact that Peter had been dead for around 100 years by that time.

And none of the apostles had any hand in the formation of the catholic church either.

Yeah, everyone that follows Christ and lives a holy life.

The only things Jesus said about the catholic church were general warnings about the whore of Babylon, and warnings of evil men pretending to be agents of the Lord. You have no excuse for your devotion to a satanic coven. Their homosexuality and child rape is common knowledge all over the world. You've chosen to ignore the victims of Catholicism and in doing so you've hardened your heart to God and chosen deception over truth and damnation over redemption.

Sure, Constantine was a big pagan.

The Pope of Rome began into schism when he crowned a second, Frankish emperor as opposed to the Roman Emperor in Constantinople.

The Muslims claim Christ was a prophet too. They are not Christian though. Proper theology + Christology is needed.

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What is the Didache? Oh wait, what's that? The first catechism? Preposterous. What? It's dated to the first century AD?

newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm

begome matthewite?

no, that's not how bishoprics work.

if the Church is apostolic, they are from the Apostles, this is the entire reason why they even bother tracking 2,000 years worth of lineage in all the seats

No. Whomever has the keys, also shares in that authority to bind on heaven and on earth. You and I do not have this authority, so this falls to the Apostles and their seats. And further, only one was given the Keys, being Cephas.

All I can do is shrug. Christ Himself will tell us who was right.

Oh, so you think the "bishoprick" came before the power to establish a bishoprick was granted by constantine? That's an adorable little catch 22 you have there. Your entire post is gibberish. You just repeat Catholic heresies and stater the arrogant pronouncements of the catholic clergy as truth.

True, but long before that happens, the Catholic church itself will tell the world which of us is right-
Revelation 17:5
You're catholic, so you don't understand scripture, so let me explain this verse in Revelations to you. The words "on her forehead" means that the entity that God says is actually the Babylonian mystery religion will be immediately identifiable as such. Anyone that even casually glances at this abomination will know upon first sight that it's evil. The Catholic church is fulfilling that prophecy today. Everyone knows of the rampant homosexuality and deeply ingrained trait of child rape that spread throughout the entire catholic church. And not only that the catholic church has surrounded itself with Babylonian symbolism pointing to nimrod, molech, ishtar, etc. If you had any love for God you would flee the catholic religion like it's a burning building. Now in these final days the sins of the church have been clearly presented to the world and you've chosen to turn a blind eye and worship heretical clergy and pagan ritual rather than the living God.

no, bishoprics were either established by the Apostles, or later on by the Church. your argument is an old slander nobody takes seriously.

as for the rest, again, Christ will tell us the Truth.

You don't want the truth. In fact, you hate truth. It's plain to anyone with eyes to see that Catholicism is babylonian mysticism veiled in Christianity.

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Look at this pope. A child could look at this pope and see that he's evil. They could have cast this pope as the sith emporer in a Star Wars movie and they wouldn't even need to use makeup, and that isn't even considering the satanic imagery on his clothing

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Hey, I have a picture along those lines as well. Here's cardinal mccarrick, (who molested children and priests for decades without consequence) hanging with notorious pedophile and necrophiliac Jimmy Saville and two victims

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And the evil of the catholic church rises all the way to the top[, now that the satanic coven calling themselves the society of Jesus has one of their disciples as pope

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The pope delivers a weekly address from the mouth of a serpent. The pope is literally the voice of the serpent.

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this speaks for itself

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thousands of children molested by hundreds of preists over the span of generations. And this was just one diocese. This is happening everywhere.

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And here's benedict with two stars of remphan on his dagon mitre hat.

I could go on and on and on. The only way you can be blind to the evils of the catholic church is if you've turned your back on truth and refuse to see

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The Pope quite clearly delivers a weekly address in front of Christ, in the mouth of the serpent.

The serpent represents the world, attempting, and failing to crush Christ, and thus, His Vicar.

and just like that, the satan worshipping mods deleted 10 posts of evidence of the true evils of catholicism. This board is just like the catholic church, it's a satanic board masquerading as christian.

Dead memes aren't evidence, liar. Go back to your designated heretic board and complain there.