If once saved always saved is true then how can we have a “falling away” as...

Ian Murphy
Ian Murphy

If once saved always saved is true then how can we have a “falling away” as Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? Granted we are justified by faith as described in Romans 3:26-5:4 and that if we confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead then we will be saved as written in Romans 10:9 as salvation is a free gift of God so that way we can’t boast about gaining it by works according to Ephesians 2:8-9. However though with all gifts they can be rejected or thrown away so I would say yes one can lose their salvation but only through rejecting or renouncing Christ .

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biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 timothy 3&version=AKJV
biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 peter 3&version=AKJV

Aiden Watson
Aiden Watson

2 thess 2:3 isn't talking about an individual's falling away, it's talking about the great apostasy before the end times

2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJV — Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Jordan Foster
Jordan Foster

Isaiah 57:1
The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

Parker Green
Parker Green

666

Nathan Martinez
Nathan Martinez

2 thess 2:3 isn't talking about an individual's falling away, it's talking about the great apostasy before the end times
Yeah basically this.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 timothy 3&version=AKJV

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 peter 3&version=AKJV

Matthew Garcia
Matthew Garcia

Imageboard number superstition is just as satanic as Jew kabbalahism

Justin Ward
Justin Ward

Once saved always saved is retarded cope for people who don't want to give up their sins.
Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed…
…Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.

Bentley Anderson
Bentley Anderson

But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

Landon Butler
Landon Butler

If once saved always saved is true
This entire point is semantics

Matthew Jenkins
Matthew Jenkins

John 10:27-28 King James Version (KJV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Xavier Williams
Xavier Williams

How does the parable of the sower possibly support your point

Carson Reyes
Carson Reyes

This. Like so many differences between denominations, whether you accept or reject OSAS really has no bearing on how you're supposed to live your daily life as a Christian. People who believe in OSAS believe that if someone claims to have been saved, but later falls into apostasy or other grievous sin, then they were simply lying or wrong about having been saved. So whether your denominations accepts or rejects OSAS, you're still expected to avoid sin for your entire life either way.

Luke Thompson
Luke Thompson

I need to do more research on once saved always saved, but this verse helps, thanks. Got any more proof texts or rational explanations for it?

Lucas Morales
Lucas Morales

The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Jack Barnes
Jack Barnes

Yes, they fall away from fellowship. Even though they show the first appearances of being born again, they prove fruitless

1 John 2:19 KJV — They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Cooper Gomez
Cooper Gomez

quoting an out of context passage written to warn church members about heretics and apostates to defend protestant theology
W E W

Eli Allen
Eli Allen

What's your alternative reading that doesn't place scripture in internal contradiction?
Why isn't the description of apostates in 1 John 2 analogous to the "Rocky ground" people of the parable?

Isaac Brown
Isaac Brown

No man shall ever pluck them from his hand, but they can surely jump out of it if they decide to. No one can make you sin, sin always comes from the heart. it's kind of acknowledged very early on in scripture when Adam fell with eve. Stop latching on to these out of context verses

John Smith
John Smith

How do you know that the self doesn't fall under "any man"? It's an exhaustive statement.

Carter Myers
Carter Myers

Because that doesn't make any sense. It's basically Calvinism lite. Espically in regards to the story of Ananias and Sapphira
Acts
{5:1} But a certain man named Ananias, with Saphira his wife, sold a piece of land,
{5:2} And by fraud kept back part of the price of the land, his wife being privy thereunto: and bringing a certain part of it, laid it at the feet of the apostles.
{5:3} But Peter said: Ananias, why hath Satan tempted thy heart, that thou shouldst lie to the Holy Ghost and by fraud keep part of the price of the land?
{5:4} Whilst it remained, did it not remain to thee? And after it was sold, was it not in thy power? Why hast thou conceived this thing in thy heart? Thou hast not lied to men, but to God.
{5:5} And Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and gave up the ghost. And there came great fear upon all that heard it.
{5:6} And the young men rising up, removed him, and carrying him out, buried him.
{5:7} And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what had happened, came in.
{5:8} And Peter said to her: Tell me, woman, whether you sold the land for so much? And she said: Yea, for so much.
{5:9} And Peter said unto her: Why have you agreed together to tempt the spirit of the Lord? Behold the feet of them who have buried thy husband are at the door: and they shall carry thee out,
{5:10} Immediately, she fell down before his feet and gave up the ghost. And the young men coming in found her dead: and carried her out and buried her by her husband.

They were apart of the church and were in good standing. Than when they sinned agianst the church they basically gave up living on the spot. If they were OSAS it wouldn't have mattered if they cheated the church of some money, but they did. They did that to them selves.
inb4 but they were never saved to begin with
Thus leading back to OSAS as Calvinism lite. Calvinists will say that everone is predestined to go to heaven or hell by the will of God. It doesn't matter if you do good or not. The same goes for the OSAS doctrine.

If you can go your whole life in an IFB church not knowing for 100% certain that if you are saved or not, than why bother trying to improve yourself? Why bother giving up your fapping habit if God has already saved you and wont let you pluck yourself out of his hands? Why bother stop sinning if God has already saved you?

Some more relevant scripture:
Colossians
>{2:8} Beware lest any man spoil (rob you of your rewards) you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
One can hear the Gospel but can also be led astray by heretics and their easy sugarcoated preaching kinda like what Luther and Anderson did

Hebrews
{3:12} Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
{10:26} For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

St. Paul literally talking about people losing their salvation because of their sin and wickedness even after being saved by the Gospel.

I can go on, but I hope you get the point that our sins can make us lose the salvation that we can get. Just like how the OT Christians lost their salvation (Adam&Eve being kicked out of the Garden, Israel losing it's kingdom permanently by Babylon, etc), us Christians today can lose our inheritance (heaven) by sinning.

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Bentley Anderson
Bentley Anderson

Let me restate your argument for you in a coherent way:
You're not finding any immediate hermeneutical reason to exclude the self from "neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand", but I gather that you're saying that the phrase allows for the exception because you understand it is possible for one to have salvation then throw it away. You understand these sections of acts, colossians and hebrews to teach this doctrine.

What you're completely neglecting is the salvation/fellowship principle:
The salvation/fellowship principle frequently helps the interpreter to determine whether a passage should be applied to Christians, non-Christians, or both. Scripture distinguishes between being in God’s family and in God’s fellowship. If a Scripture passage deals with salvation, we understand the verses in one way. If the verses have to do with the matter of fellowship, however, we understand them in another way. This principle is important in accurately interpreting such passages as John 15. Is this a salvation or a fellowship passage? If we are dealing with a salvation passage, then the verses suggest that a person can lose his or her salvation. But that implication most surely contradicts one of the greatest, most fundamental truths in the entire Scriptures. Obviously, then, the passage is about the matter of fellowship. Jesus is not talking about the loss of salvation. He is speaking about maintaining fellowship with Him, an activity essential to bearing fruit.
Jerry Vines, Power in the Pulpit

None of these proof-texts you're throwing out explicitly teach a loss of salvation, even if you might see that prima facie. What is absolutely explicit is the doctrine of eternal security:
<“For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.” (Matthew 24:24)
<“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:38-39)
<“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.” (John 10:28-29)
<“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.” (Ephesians 1:13-14)

and easiest of all
<"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16

Fundamentally, if you believe your salvation is conditional, you believe that you are somehow contributory to it in direct contradiction with Ephesians 2
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast,”
There is NOTHING you can do to deserve grace, and that's ANY grace. If you are trusting in your works, you go to hell FOREVER. You will hear, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" (Matt 7:23)

Liam Jones
Liam Jones

If once saved always saved is true
It's not.

Jordan Powell
Jordan Powell

incorrect
John 10:28-30 King James Version (KJV)
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

Henry Smith
Henry Smith

You can mine almost anything on in isolation to support a view. You should know better that we rightly divide the word of truth. The same Gospel also said we must be born from above (John 3:3), and that some of Jesus' own disciples literally left when he spoke of eating his flesh and drinking his blood.. and only the 12 Apostles were left. A very small minority compared to the crowds he had before.

And the Apostle John later said in his epistle "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?" (1 John 4:20). Plenty of people confess God, but betray him by their behavior elsewhere. So it isn't a simple matter of belief all of the time. Just as St James said, we show our faith by our works. What good is it to say "Bless you" to a widow or homeless man, but then not actually do anything for them? It shows we don't actually have any faith or believe in the love of God. For God calls us to reflect his love and be a light in the world.

Brayden Gonzalez
Brayden Gonzalez

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
We're all sinners and we can't help but sin, the Lord Jesus Christ is our righteousness.
But also you're partially correct,
Matthew 5:13-16 King James Version (KJV)
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
There is a difference between being saved and being righteous. Anyone can be saved through the Lord Jesus Christ and repentance (change of mind), but performing works in this life is only possible by walking with the Lord.

Robert Hall
Robert Hall

Bro, you need to sort your shit out. The Bible is not something for you to philosophize about all willy-nilly and draw your own conclusions from. You need sacred tradition to understand it. Just like how Jesus would explain his parables to the disciples, the Holy Spirit explains scripture to the church. You aren't being guided by the Holy Spirit, you're being guided by your own will

Angel Smith
Angel Smith

hmm i can't find anything wrong with his argument, let me just remind him that it's not sanctioned by the church which I concluded has exclusive interpretive power

Mason Davis
Mason Davis

I didn't even read your "argument"
I'm not gonna waste my time reading your buzzwords that you don't even understand.

Tyler Garcia
Tyler Garcia

I didn't even read your "argument"
I'm not gonna waste my time reading your buzzwords that you don't even understand
Papa didn't give me permission to think

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Jordan Foster
Jordan Foster

Then why are you here?

John Ortiz
John Ortiz

To inform you that you're wrong. Why are you on a Christian imageboard if you don't follow Christ's teachings?
Lol heretic memes are just as bad as left wing memes. You don't have faith, you have opinions, and you try to demonize people who do have faith. You argue in the same way the atheists do, you behave like liberals do, and you're against Christ just like they both are.

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Gavin Rodriguez
Gavin Rodriguez

K

Jackson Powell
Jackson Powell

To inform you that you're wrong.
How am I wrong if that was my first post in this thread. And more generally, you need to have a cogent point in order to establish facts. If you haven't read someone's posts and you admit this then you have no business degrading the quality of this board or this thread.

Why are you on a Christian imageboard if you don't follow Christ's teachings?
Jesus is the Lord and Savior. If you have a problem with scripture then it's you who has an issue. I'm praying for God to help you understand his word.

Carson Hughes
Carson Hughes

I'm praying for God to help you understand his word.
More like you're praying to Satan and trying to lay a curse on me so that I commit the same heresies as you.

James Collins
James Collins

tradcaths are the conescending preteen atheists of christian debate

Nathan Lopez
Nathan Lopez

Ah yes, O' Thomas Aquinas, the same guy who believed that the Vatican was legit because of the one of many pseudo-isidorian decretals: the donation of Constantine.

Brayden Roberts
Brayden Roberts

Sola Scriptura is a pretty bad argument in itself as it throws out the church fathers and apostolic tradition but so is Papism.

Evan Stewart
Evan Stewart

Not at all.
An atheist says to the Christian:
stupid christcucks, you just do whatever the Bible tells you because you're a sheep who can't think for himself
Likewise, a prot says to the Catholic:
stupid catholicuck, you just do whatever the Pope tells you because you're a sheep who can't think for himself
Meanwhile, the Catholic lets the Holy Spirit guide his thinking.

Matthew Nelson
Matthew Nelson

There are protestants out there who, despite believing in sola scriptura, do read the church fathers. The difference is that they don't derive doctrine from the church fathers, since they are fallible men, and instead derive all doctrine from scripture alone.

Julian Thompson
Julian Thompson

Scripture was written by men, too

Sebastian Russell
Sebastian Russell

Yes, it was written down by men, but God is the author of it, as 2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us. I'm sure you've seen the many arguments about this topic though, and I don't want to derail this thread further.

Grayson Robinson
Grayson Robinson

The pope isn't the Holy Spirit

Brandon Smith
Brandon Smith

And neither is the Bible

Blake James
Blake James

the pope is equal to the bible
the pope is equal to God's word
the pope is equal to God Himself
wew

Carson Hall
Carson Hall

once always saved saved?
sage for not important

Nathan Young
Nathan Young

Don't put words in my mouth, liar.

Lincoln Reed
Lincoln Reed

Imagine being this dishonest. You are on the path to hell.

Aiden Wright
Aiden Wright

believes that the post numbers actually means anything.

What about the 666 page of the bible then?

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