Explain the trinity

Explain the trinity.
When I say 'explain', I mean actually explain it. No analogies, no parables, no sophistry. Actually explain how it can work.
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You sound like a nuisance child, OP.

You want me to believe but refuse to tell what

Literally no one understands it. It’s not a secret, we’re not refusing to tell you, it’s just that out finite minds literally cannot comprehend it. Three separate persons who are God, but one God. That’s all we know, and all we can know.

Trying to understand the trinity is a lot like trying to count to Infinity. Once you understand that you cannot understand ,you are free to love God for what He is and what He has revealed to us.

These are platitudes that are exactly what is rightly frustrating OP

There are many things about the Trinity we do know, because we're informed by scripture. "Appeal to mystery" 9 times out of 10 is just laziness.

Thats because you are trying to grasp at the infinite in a finite mind. Have you read the Bible at all OP? Read it from cover to cover if you haven't yet.

Or watch this video it sums it up pretty good.

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Well, I guess I'd start with John's Gospel "In the beginning there was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The Greek for "word" is "logos" meaning depending on context, speech, story, argument, sentence, saying, reason, or word. This ambiguity helps explain the trinity; you see, the God of philosophy, the "first-mover" God is just a logical construct of Thomas Aquinas and others. The Christian God is a more comprehensive concept. He has the capacity to act independently, in short he's not the God of the philosophers, rather He is fully capable of action in the here and now. In order for this to be possible, God must have attributes, sort of like how an organism has arms and legs and eyes, God must have stuff appropriate to His nature which allows Him to act within time.

The way God achieves this feat of being timeless and transcendent while being simultaneously within time and space is through the second person in the trinity the Word. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us in the person of Christ, so we typically call the Word the Son, but that's a story for another time.

This is the reason for the mystery though, because God the Father is inaccessible, outside of time and space he is the God of philosophers (the first mover God, who just sets it all in motion, and leaves, like deists say). The Son, or the Word rather, is like the trace of divine handiwork. We know it exists though our conscience and if you are a bit more poetical, also the harmony of nature. God the Son is about us, he is a personal God, rather than the transcendent God of the philosophers, a God who took on human form to be an example for us, to elevate us, and who sacrificed Himself for us.

Lastly the Spirit; God is love, as John's gospel tells us so the Spirit of God is the Spirit of love. Love is the personal experience of God, but the Holy Spirit is also responsible for Providence. What is Providence? Well, people are idiots today, so they call it "karma." Karma is Hindu bullshit about reincarnation, and has nothing to do with people getting what they deserve in this life, for the wrongs they commit. Just deserts are handed out by Providence; if someone mugs an old lady and gets hit by a bus as he runs away, it is not karma, it is Providence. Providence is when God quotes Bob Ross and says "no mistakes, just happy accidents." (Pic related)

Hope I've explained it with minimal heresy, because this is a tough one.

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That is demonstrably wrong. God the Father has appeared in Creation in the Bible. Who’s voice do you suppose it was who said “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am most pleased”?

Oh so sue me, I forgot to add the little complexity that ruins my whole attempt to unravel a mystery that I'll never unravel before I die. ffs

Geez, calm down. There’s no need to be upset, friend.

I'm not upset, just a bit of sarcasm. I can't eliminate faith with existential malarky so I'm not actually mad that someone hit back against it.

The idea is that every person has an essence which is what they essentially are. You as a person have an essentiality to you that makes you "you".

God is comprised of three persons that share a single essence. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit all share the single essence of God.

If you want precise elaborations on the meanings of person, essence read the Church Fathers its complex stuff. When people say its a mystery it means that its revealed truth that we couldn't know apart from God's revelation. Its also something we can't fully comprehend in its complete profundity/meaning, it doesn't mean we can't sketch out a philosophical definition like a muslim or Arian would try to say as a critique.

Three Persons, all essentially the same God (in essence not personhood).

No, God the father has a physical form. He wrestled with I think it was Jacob

Everything that can be said about the Trinity is an analogy, a parable, etc. Even the word "Trinity" doesn't describe it. You can't describe God, Who is infinitely better than anything we can comprehend.
Therefore my answer is "no". Yes, we speak of essence, energy, and hypostases, we speak of being unbegotten, begotten, and proceeding, we speak of perichoresis and other things, but none of that answers what you want us to answer. You want us to describe God cataphatically.

That was Jesus before we knew Him as Jesus that wrestled Jacob, not God the Father.
Remember, Moses couldn't even see God the Father's face when he ascended up the moutain

Can you show that the trinity is not an inherently contradictory - as it seems to be - and therefore impossible concept?
'The set of all sets that are not members of themselves' is not a 'mystery', it's a non-existent, made up thing.
Why not just believe that jesus was a man exalted by god, not (a) god? There were plenty of christians who used to believe that, before the church of rome forced their theology on others.

Because Christ did not lie. All Christians were Trinitarians, Arians came after.

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the absolute state of protestantism

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I'm Protestant.

You don't know what christ said.
You know what a cherry-picked group (cherry-picked by the church of rome) said he said - as a greek translation no less.

I know you made it pretty clear when you were uncertain of Christ's divinity and solidified it with your anti-Catholic bias.

You have to understand that Christ was with us humans since the beginning. Jesus was the perfect ram that appeared before Abraham, wrestled Jacob, saved Noah and his family, was the angel that made Balaam's donkey talk, helped Joshua conquer Cannan, blessed Saraa with Samson to deliver Israel from the Philistines etc etc.

Christ was not just a creation of God, but is God Himself come down to earth to soften our hard hearts and save us from sin. He is the eternal priest-king that was given the keys to God's kingdom and passed it down to His chief steward to run His church here on Earth.

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Polytheists go home

You are confusing me with someone else. Please check my ID.

>>>/islam/

If it's 'a mystery' how three gods are one, then you believe in three gods.

Really you shouldn't post here if you don't believe in the Nicene Creed, you belong to a different religion & you're not too smart.

Rome did not force trinitarianism on anyone, if you had any knowledge of history, you'd realize that Christianity was trinitarian since before the canon was fixed.

I can solve your mystery for you; you're an atheist

They aren't three Gods, muslim.
Our God is one God! Always has always will be.
Read the Bible sometimes or better yet watch this video this user posted

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Three persons in one entity.

Go back to >>/x/

ATHANASIAN CREED

The Trinity cannot be derived from reason alone, that is why its called a mystery rather it is of divine revelation, but it is not contrary to reason.

read a book tigga

Oh, but I'm both an atheist and a theist. How does that work? It's a mystery.

Firstly, those things contradict each other, the trinity doesn't.

Secondly, show me a worm that fully comprehends what a human is and than maybe there will be a human that fully comprehends what God is.

Thirdly, what number comes just before infinity? Dont give me an abstract mathematical equation, I want a solid number. If you can't give me the answer I want, infinity doesn't exist. this is what (you) sound like

Fourthly, have you ever watched Flatland by Carl Sagan? (Embed related). Carl trys to describe how 2nd dimensional beings can comprehend a 3rd dimensional being, and how a 3rd dimensional being comprehends a 4th and so on. Now try to imagine an infinite dimensional being like God and explain that to us.

Not to sound like a "Akchually…" type of person, but I was taught that "mystery" could also be linked to the ancient Greek root of the world "misterion" which means also "sacrament" and that there's a relationship between them and the divine.
Thus the fullness of faith has to do with the "visible signs of the invisible grace of God", as those are the Sacraments? I always felt that yes, we can't fully understand God, just to clarify I do not disagree with you that we can't fully comprehend God but can "find" Him also through reason.

'Three separate god-beings are one god' does contradict itself, you just call it a mystery rather than a contradiction.
Infinity is not an object that can 'exist' or 'not exist'. The fact that there is no last number is the definition and the explanation for what is meant by infinity. You can't give such an explanation or definition for your polytheistic trinity.
The fact that human understanding is limited is not evidence for any supposedly complex claim.

They aren't separate and no one but you is saying they are separate. You sound like a muslim, why are you even here?

Let me guess you also follow that Dingleberry YT heretic aswell?

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God=/= Person

It seems to be quite literally stated by this creed tho:

You may as well ask “How can God work at all?”
He is God. He is one, and he is three.

You bring up a good point.
Is god even possible?

Yes, considering the universe had a finite beginning, as validated by modern science.

In addition to what the other user said, here are some other logical reasons for God to exist.

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Define god

Dont engorge yourself with pride thinking your little human mind(even how great it is) can understand such a thing, it is an arrogance to think one can fully understand it. Not everything fits into neat little rational boxes that can be explained, dissected, and described.

When they wanted to turn Christianity into something pagans would follow they made jesus into a God and yet they wanted to pretend they were still monotheistic so they invented the trinity concept to blend the paganism better with the Jewish roots

Frankly, if God is too much of a coward to step up and take responsibility for his actions and his followers are more than happy to enable his reckless behaviour under the common argument "muh free will exonerates God", why should I, or anyone, even bother following the impotent retard?

I see now why the kikes laugh at Christianity. It's a joke religion predicated entirely behind 'Heaven on a Stick,' don't mess up or you're going to suffer for eternity! This farce is unnecessary.

I spit on god.

Really just think about it. If your son murdered his brother then of course he should be punished. But wouldn't you contemplate your failures as a father?

God isn't infallible, so why would I follow him?

Praying for you brother. Proof that he loves is is that he has allowed us to choose to love him and follow him, or not love him and hurt others in that process. God bless :)

You've got a weird misconception about the line of reasoning of the unmoved mover. God is the unmoved mover because He is moving and causing things to happen right now, in the present. He didn't just "set things in motion" and leave; if He had done that then nothing could be moving right now. Nothing can be actual without the constant intervention of God. Obviously, God is much more than just the unmoved mover, but this is one of the ways in which we can know that God must exist.

The concept of the trinity does not violate the law of non contradiction. By virtue of this, it is not contradictory and there is no reason to say otherwise, i.e the trinity is actually a logically possible concept. A paradox is something that looks contradictory but in actual fact is not. A mystery is like this also but in addition we acknowledge that we don't have any further information to elaborate how the concept works (hence 'mystery'). Just because we don't currently have this information, however, does not mean it violates the law of non contradiction. To say so would be a category error. A contradiction would be 'the trinity is three Gods and one God' - this statemwnt contradicts itself and does not actually make any (logical/meaningful) sense. But '3 Gods and 1 God' is not the concept of the trinity so is irrelevant to an accurate categorirsation of contradiction/paradox/mystery. There used to be a Sproul lecture or two on this as part of a series called defending the faith or something on yt but has been taken down in the past year it looks like. See this short article which doesn't go into as much detail unfortunately but gives you the jist: ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/contradiction-vs-paradox/


Hahaha no. That's a contradiction.

How is this a nonsense statement? It’s just a convoluted way of saying “the empty set,” since every set is a member of itself.

Is your "word" somehow a separate entity from you? No. It IS you. So it goes with Jesus and the Father. Jesus IS the Logos - the Word of God. Whatever God is, he is. Just as your own word doesn't somehow go astray and betray you of it's own will, as if it's some kind of separate personality that's no longer yourself. You must realize how retarded that is. So it goes with God and his Word. Jesus can only do what the Father tells him.

And is your spirit somehow separate from you? No. So goes the Spirit and the Father. Thinking otherwise is the same retardery as my example about how our personalities relate to our word. I don't need to repeat it again with "spirit".

Other than that, you're not going to understand. We will forever be learning God. Or if you're stupid, fighting with him (not recommended). But this is part of the joy of life. Embrace it.

Pardon me for saying "retard" in a discussion about the Trinity. I'm just trying to point out the absurdity of those examples. But on second thought, it seems more nasty than I intended.

Any serious answer would get a ban from the board owners

You're asking for a causal mechanism of something divine? Good luck with that.
If you aren't asking that, it's relatively straight forward and other anons have explained it well.

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It is a mystery /thread

The trinity is false and is a confusion of functions and this confusion of functions is what causes to be false. We have moses and god appearing to him as to attend a desire for moses to see him. God just showed his back because if he saw the god of the occult face he would die. So Moses saw the back of the God and then on Moses was an intimate friend.

So god person called Yahweh when he created his son he became three and this we also called god. Where this is written ? This is another doctrine of man added where it doesn't need nothing to be added.

Jesus is not a son of god that was begotten in the womb of Mary but a son adopted because he was in the care of his lord, learning from the lord, getting guidance from the god. And in the completion, Jesus had a father and god a son. Jesus doesn't forget he obeys him and comes it his name for his works. And they don't understand that he is not son of god but a son of god. And he is finally the mercy, the justice, the truth, attributes of god, making his will, a will of the lord, so he is one. He is one it god, but not one as trinity preaches.

Get you out of church, out of added words that are not of christ and don't hear drunk paul. You will only be saved by making thyself not a conformist it sin but a never doer it repentance. And he is not god but a messenger, how could he be the yahweh (father) showing his back to Moses. He is not in the beggining but he assimilated what was in the beggining: WORD.

If he was to be "WOR CHIPped" he would make his disciples pray to him and bend to him and adore him because he was the person in the beggining.

It's written in the 4 Surrah verse 171 of the revelation of the Angel Gabriel to Mohhamed:

"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs

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He is a creation of God in the womb and not a father of him as we wordly think.


We are separated it religions of man and not of god. Muslim it taqya, jews it the abominable talmud blaspheming against the son of god, and christians it the drunk persecutor and blinded and blind in the road Paul. As he is blind so is his Sheep it blind creeds, deaf to the words of Jesus. Not understanding the profoundity of allegory wisdom.

Listen to me the fat sheep, sheeps. God is one in tree books. Torah, Evangel, Q'ran. And god is tree in 3 religions made by man, it additions of man.

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OUT

You go to the creed, and say yes, yes,yes. I go to labor and say what, why, how, yes.

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Three persons, one God

You think i've never doubted? you think i've never questioned or studied? lol piss off.

Yes
I will go and you all are beyond DEATH. The eyes of the dead don't see but they are, the ear don't hear but they are. The soul is not in the body and the dead is just a body it eyes not seeing and ears not hearing and this is death. YOU ARE ALL DEATH.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Just one man in the crowd got to help christ carry his cross. YOU ARE ALL PART OF THE CROWD IN THE END.

We can apprehend God's essence but we cannot know it. The Trinity is a doctrinal expression of that unknowability. Because God is beyond all conceivable categories even our notions of one and many cannot approach an understanding of the Trinity. If it could be understood it wouldn't have been supernaturally revealed to us.

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.