Do Catholics still believe there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church? If they do, then wouldn't Catholics and other Christians have irreconcilable differences, just like the JW and Mormons with the rest of the Christian community?
Do Catholics still believe there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church? If they do...
Yes, there is no guaranteed salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
You must be new here. Lurk here long enough and you'll see the irreconcilable differences in the form of inter-denom pooflinging contests.
Not even their catechism teaches this. The people telling you this are autistic sedes.. who themselves are outside the very church they supposedly follow. More Catholic than the Pope, etc..
Yeah, it's one of their many believes contradicting Jesus Christ's teaching
during Noah's time, there were many women pregnant with children and some with newborn babes in their arms all going about their business, didn't they have "invincible ignorance"? And yet they were washed away in the flood like the sinners just the same.
What do you think happened to the souls of these innocents? Back then you didn't need baptism before death in order to be saved for this was before Christ, and Noah was also before circumcision, so that wouldn't help either. I suppose it could be possible that the innocents were saved, however it seems to me far more plausible that they were not, and were sent to limbo like unbaptized children today likely go - the part of hell where there is no hellfire. These children died still possessing the stain of original sin, it simply follows that they will go to hell, though it is hell without the pains of hellfire as they did not actually commit personal sins deserving of such a thing. It is limbo.
I don't mean to be some sort of legalist, but this in my mind just works too perfectly. It is all consistent. If it ain't broke, why fix it?
God can do whatever He will, He can save those children.
I didn't deny that
actually, honestly, I've changed my mind. Damn. After all this time, here it is.
Vatican II, #16: (1964 AD) For they who without their
own fault do not know of the Gospel of Christ and His Church, but yet
seek God with sincere heart, and try, under the influence of grace,
to carry out His will in practice, known to them through the dictate
of conscience, can attain eternal salvation."
No way around that.
That and while you'll find early Catholic saints who are for baptism of desire and the like, you never find early saints that explicitly deny that there is a baptism of desire, rather the closest thing you will find is them just reiterating that there is no salvation outside the church which does not deny baptism of desire.
Jesus: He that is not with me, is against me: and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth.
So why be Catholic? There's no guaranteed salvation within the Church either; last time I checked, bad Catholics go to hell too.
Really the best argument I can construe is that speaking idle words against Catholics, their Church, or the Pope will send a prot to hell if he does not repent, because everyone will be made to give an account of every idle word he speaks on the day of judgement.
Except there is guaranteed salvation within God's church. If you keep the sacraments and bear good fruit for God in His name you receive grace.
Hence why we say there is no salvation outside of Jesus' Church. Did you even read the Apostolic exhortation I posted by Saint Pope Paul VI?
To be with Jesus means to accept Him as your savior, which is what prots and orthos do. We all go to heaven at the end of the day
To accept Jesus as your savior, you have to accept His Church, which prots and orthos do not. They will not go to Heaven at the end of the day.
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” -John 14:6 (kjv)
“Wait unless he’s an ortho or prot, my bad bro forgot to say that.” -John 14: 6.5
"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matt vii, 21
"jklol" Matt vii, 21.5
In this case, doing His will means that you act like a proper Christian and not going around acting like a sinner. Despite what you may think, orthos and prots aren’t the spawn of Satan and are good people. Also, funny we get into this conversation; God spoke to me in the past about stuff like this:
I was wondering about the correct way to worship Him and wondering whether Catholicism or Protestantism is the correct way to handle it. So I prayed for God to reveal the truth to me. Later that evening, my father suddenly remembered the story of the woman at the well, and was talking about the part where she was saying to Jesus how the Jews told the Samaritans to worship on one mountain and how they (the Samaritans) disagreed with that. Then Jesus essentially said that it didn’t matter which mountain they worshipped on, so long as they did it. My father then interpreted this to mean that it doesn’t completely matter which sect one’s in, so long as they’re worshiping God in general. He had never interpreted that story like that before. Just a way God was talking to me.
I don't think that's quite the point. The passage goes like this (quoting the ESV, not for any particular reason).
The point wasn't that it didn't matter what mountain they worshiped on. In simple terms, the Samaritans and the Jews were ethnic groups or religious sects that we could say each followed different forms of Judaism. The Jews believed that the special temple sacrifices had to be done at the temple in Jerusalem. The Samaritans believed these sacrifices should be done on Mount Gerezim. Jesus gives his endorsement to the Jewish position in this debate ("we" Jews vs. "you" Samaritans, and "salvation is from the Jews"). What he says about "neither on this temple nor in Jerusalem" etc. is not that location doesn't matter. For the old covenant rites, it did matter. However the old covenant was going to be replaced by a new covenant (Christianity) where worship and ritual wouldn't be confined to any particular geographic location. It's not saying that how we worship, how we act, what we believe doesn't matter.
Catholics are evil as winnie the pooh
That's Winnie Ille Pu to you.
assurance of salvation does not exist, and it is good that it does not exist. If we had a guarantee, we would become lazy. We are saved by our faith, through the grace gifted power of the sacraments. Sacraments only work for those who have faith.
You cannot be hollow and expect to be saved, which is what a guarantee makes you.
That’s what Protestants do, so we’d still be eligible to go to heaven. Also, as for that scripture, I could be wrong on that, but that in itself doesn’t mean that non Catholics go to hell
The current Pope isn’t even Catholic at all, I think that’s blindingly obvious to everyone.
Kek. Nice one user
Non-Christian here who's interested in the idea of converting to Catholic faith:
Why does the Church in my region insist on new converts have to attend 1 year of teaching before they are considered Catholic? And why does it say that adult baptism happens on Easter Sunday, with some exceptions? Is this how the Catholic Church deals with converts? What happens if I (God forbid) die before I get baptized. I find this process strange and wonder were it comes from.
When you become Catholic, you are joining the Catholic Church. That means you have to study the Church, its history and its teachings. Anyone can become Christian by proclaiming the Christ is Lord and being baptized, but if you join a Church, then you're becoming part of a larger organization. It's like getting a new job. You have to spend time in training before you can even be considered for management. You can concoct all manner of hypothetical situations (such as death before baptism), but don't worry about it.
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is long suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
If you are in the process of becoming Catholic and you die before your actual baptism, then it is considered Baptism by intention.
Makes sense. This is something I believed in before I knew the catholic position. I imagine God truly knows what intentions you have in your heart and this if an accident occurs in the process, God will consider you baptized because if it wasn’t for the accident, you would have been baptized.
All parishes differ slightly in how they operate. As a baptized Christian, I'm in the process of becoming Catholic, and since I…
…the RCIA coordinator feels I have been thoroughly "catechized", and can become Catholic whenever I believe I'm ready.
Yes, I even think the church recognizes a girl as a saint even though she never had the chance to officially convert. I forgot her name unfortunately but she wanted to become catholic but her father refused and abused her till she agreed to stop seeking conversion. She still prayed every night that she may become catholic. One day she once again told her father that she wanted to become catholic, and he was so frustrated with her that he murdered her.
I believe the same can apply if you have convinced yourself that you want to be Catholic then an accident occurs to where you can't officially convert. It all depends on you and God, though.
How many times did the Apostles in the Bible warn against heresy? Therefore, even though a person might call himself Christian, if he's a heretic, his salvation is in serious danger. Christianity was never meant to be used as an umbrella group with thousands of versions of interpretations of the Bible and theology and doctrine, that's common sense. Christ tasked His Apostles to spread the word and their successors through their authority have done do exactly that.
It is quite clear from the Bible that Apostles had disciples and only those disciples had the permission and authority to preach (the Bible wasn't assembled for the first few hundred years of Christianity anyway). It is quite ridiculous to claim that any man who picks up a Bible has the authority to spread his own interpretation of it and that all interpretations are equally valid.
Yes, it's a dogma.
Do you believe all Catholics go to Heaven?
Wrong, there is no salvation whatsoever outside of the Catholic Church. All schismatics, heretics, pagans etc go to hell, infallibly.
No a minority of Catholics go to heaven, and no non Catholics go to heaven.
All salvific grace is derived from the Catholic Church according to Dominus Iesus. That means apostolic orders receiving valid sacraments, though out of communion with the supreme pontiff, have access to the salvific nature of sacramental grace, but Protestants do not. The only sacramental graces that Protestants may access is the grace of Baptism, which is insufficient generally speaking. Does that mean that Orthodox Christians and some Anglicans have equal access as Catholics? No, but I would bet that every monk on Mt. Athos is going to heaven.
All Heretics go to Hell infallibly as per the Council of Florence. Not one goes to heaven.
Only the devout and good ones. The ones that obey God and his commands. The Catholics in Name Only (CINOs) are no better than prots. If anything they are worse than prots. CINOs bring disgrace and confusion upon others. At least prots are honest about their hatred for the Church Jesus Himself setup.
In all honesty, you sound like a Muslim
He's not wrong, though. Much will be expected of those to whom much has been given… to be in the bosom of the Church, receive Jesus in the Eucharist, and then carelessly wander off into error is a very bad spot to be in. Not to mention the scandal generated by bad Catholics.
Use your Biblically honed mind to figure out the hidden meaning buried deep in this ingenious parable.
Dominus Iesus is magisterial.
If by "muslim" you mean the literal translation which means "one that submits to God" than yes I am a muslim and submit myself to the one Lord, Savior, and King Jesus Christ.
But if you mean "muslim" as in "a practitioner of Islam" than you are very much mistaken.
I have a very slim chance of beating ebloa without a doctor, doesn't mean I should try to go at it alone.
Which does not say a single protestant goes to heaven. Every heretic goes to Hell INFALLIBLY NO EXCEPTIONS WHATSOEVER. They burn in Hell eternally. It will be to the delight of the Saints in heaven to see the damned burning eternally and ceaselessly. Just thinking about it makes me happy, I do long for the joys of heaven.
This is bait.
As a convert I've gone from entering church for the first time to baptism in 50 days: Easter to Pentecost.
So Jesus Christ isn’t actually necessary for salvation, he just makes it more likely you will be saved? Is that what your parable means?
It might have to do something with worldly schedules being more important than saving your soul.
I mean it's not their soul not getting saved, right?
Should tell you something.
Catholics in Name Only (CINO) is a heresy, which is neither supported by Scripture nor by Church tradition.
Your made up category of Catholics doesn't exist. The Catholics you put there are real Christians as any other Catholic and therefore get saved, even if you do not like it.
And you people wonder Evangelicals have a rep. for being uneducated.
You realize that the same church baptizes infants, who can neither speak nor read?
How educated are these?
They dont go through all the sacraments, so they aren't baptized in the holy spirit, which happens at confirmation after they've been taught. If they're adults, they receive all of them the same night.
To you prots because of your crap interpretation think baptism is all you need to go through.
Also, you're supposed to being your children up in the fairh, so unless you fail as a parent your child should be able to have your child baptized.
When a child is baptized it's saved. This is the sole reason, why infant baptism happens and has nothing to do with what happens later, when someone joins the church as an adult.
I see you try the hardest to LARP as a Catholic in various threads, but you have the theology of 12yo.
An infant is saved at baptism, but that's not how full communion works. I'm not a larper, I just dont take this board very seriously. You must complete all of the sacraments to be in full communion with the church as well as maintain proper practice.
How can Catholics, Orthos, and Prots all worship in truth if they all have mutually exclusive truth claims?
Only one of them can have, and worship with, the whole truth.
Exactly, and Catholics have the full infallible truth by the Church that Jesus Christ Himself founded
Welcome to Zig Forums!
You can actually get excommunicated if you go off the deep end.
Who the hell knows, your God is still fake.