Is Vox Day good to listen to?

He is a Christian. I've listened to a few of his streams, and I get a bad feeling. I don't know what that means. He talks a lot about so-called gamma males, and perhaps my bad feeling means I am not a good man. Or perhaps I am sensing something not right about what he is saying.

I am seeking out people who help me understand why the world is how it is.

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I can't speak to weather this man is good or not, but you should instead read the Church Fathers and the writings of the saints if you want to understand why the world is the way it is. Turning to people who are of the world with questions about the world will get you nowhere.

I thought he was an agnostic. Did he convert recently?

Your intuitions are well placed. What you're sensing is the man's pride. He's little more than a charlatan looking to sell books. Take anything he says with a generous dose of skepticism.

I seem to remember reading he's non-Trinitarian

He is a non-trinitarian. So, heretical by most standards. Feel free to listen to his political views but take his religious ideas with a grain of salt.

Are there people you would recommend? I'm interesting in learning about contemporary political and social events.

Dr. Steve Turley and Jake Morphonios (a.k.a. Blackstone Intelligence) are both good at covering contemporary events and political commentary. While Jonathan Pageau and The Distributist are generally reliable for social commentary and analysis.

He's part of the Alt/Hard/Far-Right (whatever catchy marketing phrase they want to call themselves these days to seem more hip and less threatening) with the beliefs that usually accompany said worldview. Yes, your sense of caution is well founded. Look elsewhere.

The alt-right's ideas generally seem right to me, at least more so than Jordan Peterson.

so you've always bought the Vox Day kool-aid then. The alt-right doesn't even have a coherent position on things beyond muh ethnostate. Peterson hasn't taken the red pill yet to realize classical liberalism's inevitable flaws, but at least that position has a far more robust set of data supporting it. Meanwhile, I have yet to hear any prominent figure in the alt-right even begin to discuss either the economics or implementation details of their non-system. The neo-reactionaries that preceded the alt-right at least tried coming to grips with the implementation details of their philosophy.

also, supporting the alt-right is becoming increasingly synonymous with supporting "Propertarianism", which easily has the potential to surpass levels of enforced atheism not seen since the Soviet Union.

Vox is an egotist who lets his arrogance blind him to his failings. He used to just be a weird autist who I first became aware of in his debates with e-atheists. His book, The Irrational Atheist, was overall a good shredding of a lot of the claims of the New Atheists, despite Vox being a non-trinitarian heathen himself. Over the years though he's let his pride get the better of him, and memed himself into thinking it's alright to lie to people for the purposes of "rhetoric". He's revealed himself to be a petty, vindictive, man, made of cope at society not recognizing him for his self-professed brilliance, he's too autistic to realize his hamfisted attempts at "rhetoric" often make him look like a raving madman to third parties. He likes to make big claims in vague terms but never spells out his reasoning on them, and then calls people stupid for not understanding what he's on about. He treats his own cult of followers like shit in this way. But his habit of not spelling out the details of his thinking can give the illusion he knows more than he's letting on; having read his blog for over a decade, it's clear he just doesn't think his ideas through very well. But he uses that amazing brain of his to rationalize himself into thinking he has. He's made of cope at society not sufficiently recognizing him for his self-professed brilliance, his actions in recent years have revealed him to be a petty, vindictive, temperamental man, who lets his big, brittle ego blind him to his faults, and the faults in his beloved, broken ideas about reality. He's an autist who thinks he's a master manipulator, a transparent pitiable person who envisions himself a man of mystery, and a high-functioning dunce who thinks himself a genius, his arrogance leading to a large lack of self awareness. His e-followers are mostly sychophantic cultists whose yesmanning just feeds into his delusions of adequacy. He's an erratic, egotistical, dishonest loose cannon, and not someone you should trust, OP.

Surely you know that state enforcement religion (to include atheism) is antithetical to right-libertarianism. Are you saying it would have an unintended consequence?

Precisely. It's a descendent of libertarianism, but it is by no means the same thing as libertarianism. In it's current formulation, Propertarianism leaves no room for the authentic practice of any religion without running the risk of being found guilty of spreading false information. It's a rather large hole in Doolittle's system, but naturally as an atheist, he doesn't see the problem with it andhas shown little interest in doing aything about it:

I don't know who doolittle is and I'm not interested in watching 3.5 hours of youtube babble, but I appreciate that it seems you have a close grasp on this topic.
I'm gathering that propertarianism is a nebulous term that's somehow headed by Doolittle. Is it breaking off from classical liberalism and right-libertarianism broadly by not securing the rights of freedom of religion? Or are you casting a wider net and speaking on all libertarianism?

Propertarianism is it's own specific political philosophy literally invented by Curt Doolittle, and it has been gaining a lot of ground within alt-right circles lately. I'm a right-leaning libertarian myself, so I would in no way ever conflate the two, as it would be a gross misrepresentation of both. The thing is however, that Propertarianism does indeed sneakily bill itself as basically being "libertarianism+", because it does share a lot of libertarian ideas, and claims to "solve" the problems with classical libertarian philosophies through it's heavy handed enforcement of "truth" via it's theory of "Testemonialism". And this is where it's built-in atheism shines through, because it effectively criminalizes anything that isn't empirically testable (like religion), in attempts to prevent the problem of bad actors/parasites that could otherwise arise in a purely libertarian system. In other words, it supports "freedom of speech", but only so long as your speech doesn't include any sort of truth claims that can't live up to Doolittle's tests of truthiness.

That is worrisome. I think your analysis is right. thanks.

Also, the flexible way it defines "property" leaves it vulnerable to being subverted by movements like the radical left anyway, who could then legally go after stupid things like "cultural appropriation", which makes Doolittle's enforced truth "solution" even more silly.

I'd heard Propertarians were big on rule of law and having a supreme court vet every law before it was passed, but I did not realize they were such proponents of scientific technocracy, either. It looks like they keep describing the system we have now, only somehow worse. I guess this is what happens when you're a cultural Pelagian who doesn't have an understanding of fallen human nature.

I don't consider myself alt-right because I am interested in more issues than the main ones the alt-right focuses on, white identity and immigration.

However, my reading of the alt-right is they say whites should be able to have an identity just as Asians, Blacks, and Latinos. People say, Europeans never identified as one group. But today, different Asian groups band together to support themselves, and different African groups do as well. Similarly, different European groups should be able to. As Kevin MacDonald says, race exists on a genetic level, but at the same time there are a lot of people existed at these blurred edges.

I don't think white people are going to be treated well when they become a minority in the US, and the alt-right is the only group I know of addressing this.

American was an ethnostate before mass immigration. I don't think we can get this back. An enthostate doesn't require 100% of a racial group. I don't think countries do well with large amounts of people from different cultures.

I also like following the alt-right because *some* of the people have better views on feminism. Some of the women like Tara McCarthy are feminists. But the alt-right is more likely to understand that women generally shouldn't work outside the home. They should be getting married around 18 and focusing on children. They can have hobbies like learning piano, gardening, knitting, whatever. They don't have to be chained to the kitchen, so the speak. Women should dress modestly and not distract men with their bodies like they are in their yoga pants and skimpy tops. Yes, men should control themselves but we can ask for both of these things at the same time. None of this is oppressive to women. It's healthy for them. I don't hate women. I have empathy for them. Most women are being manipulated by our media and popular culture into dressing like whores, partying, going to college for an expensive degree so they can make little money making pointless PowerPoint presentations at an office, and not having children. I have empathy for them because the forces manipulating them are strong. It's the women who tell others "Be obese" or "Shout your abortion" that I despise. And yes, this happened because men became weak. I am weak compared to my great grandparents. I work on improvement.

I went to the Life Site, a Christian website, and they had an article about how men don't want to date women because they don't act like women anymore. And people in the comments went beserk. They were feminists. I can't find Christian resources that are not feminists.

Jordan Peterson sells yoga pants on his store:

I followed Jordan Peterson from his bill C16 video to when he published his book and became extremely successful. He changed at that point for the worse. He became managed by a group in hollywood who created the MeToo movement in a board room.

Jordan Peterson's daughter's behavior is appalling. She posts tons of nude photos of herself on her Instagram. She swears, whines, lashes out at people on twitter over nothing. I have some empathy because she has a serious illness, but I can't say I like the way she behaves. Jordan offers a lot of advice in his book on parenting, which I read, and I have to say I wouldn't do anything he says based on how his daughter turned out.

I'm not one of those people who say, "I don't want my favorite band to become famous." I wish people to be successful, but I have to say fame corrupted Jordan Peterson.

I'll also add that I don't think most of the decline of the white population in America is happening naturally, or by chance. I think it's deliberately by elites. I think they want to eliminate white men because they can fight back. They will go after Asian men next.

what does that have to do with anything? Just seems like the kind of petty observation Vox Day would make to insinuate nonsense instead of making any actual arguments. I'm not a huge JBP proponent, because I find a lot of what he says repetitive and relatively dull, but he's still done more than any figure in recent history to bring secular people back into Christianity, and that's enough for me to at least respect the fruits of the man.

i.e. guilt by association. Would you have felt the same way about the Samaritan Jesus used in his parable as well? I'm not saying degenerate Hollywood organizations don't have questionable motives, but we can't just outright deny that God has a habit of choosing unlikely people to do his bidding either.

She's a product of secular society just like all the other Western women out there. I suggest you reserve judgement about how easy it is to instill values in children until you have some of your own, and have them go through the secular indoctrination gauntlet that is the University system. Remember that not all of Abraham's nor Jacob's children turned out that great either. So if you're holding Peterson up to higher standards than the actual prophets of the Bible, then I don't know what to tell you.

A lot of what he advises overlaps with what is taught in the Bible. Would you reject those teachings of the Bible as well? Sounds to me like you just don't like the guy and are looking for any excuse to be a contrarian to him instead of actually thinking your positions through thoroughly. Don't let your pride blind you.

In what sense has he even changed what he's been saying from before he was famous? He obviously has shifted focus away from his Jungian analysis and biblical commentary, but he hasn't contradicted any of his positions, he's just been on book tours nonstop for over a year. Yet the more fame he's gotten, the more he's brought totally unchurched people into my Orthodox parish (as confirmed by my priest). Your over reliance on feelings and intuition is starting to make you sound like Vox Day at this point, throwing around vague accusations supported by little more than hand waving. You say you're suspicious of Day, but it sounds like you've already bought into everything he has to say on this matter.

Once again, I don't particularly care about the man myself, but I trust Jesus when he told us we can judge a tree by its fruits. Maybe he'll turn out to bear questionable fruits later, but so far he's done more to reinvigorate Christianity than anything else.


But, user! That's just a petty observation!

well that was a waste of a thread

He's been a Christian for years

If I had children I would not send them to a Western university. That’s like throwing them into a bog and not expecting them to be covered in mud.

they would be legally recognized adults with the mentality of rebellious teenagers already indoctrinated with several years of schooling and/or popular culture by the time they're even ready to go to University. You'd be lucky if a kid even gives your opinions the time of day at that point, unless you literally kept them in a cage their entire life. People always overestimate the influence of parenting.

This seems sort of accurate, although nothing I've heard of him leads me to think he is smart.

Yikes, didn't know he is a non Trinitarian. Someone should let Owen Benjamin know this, but he's a bit too stupid himself to realize this stuff. Hopefully E Michael Jones knocks some more sense into him.

Back to the topic of Vox. His whole idiotic Alpha Bravo Gamma theory is based on literally nothing. I mean social science is stupid as it is, but at least it's seemingly based on data, and they draw conclusions from it etc. This guy is just talking shit totally out of his ass. His "evidence" for his theories of personality types are just literally pulled out of his ass based on his "life experience". This is just nonsense crap, and it's sad his little cult uses it and thinks it actually means something. He keeps adding nonsense groups like SIGMA now hahah I mean when will it end. I think I'm a Pi Phi Delta Chi Omecron Delta Force. This guy is an idiot.

why does this board attract so many cringey incel tradLARPers? I swear it's practically /islam/ up in here sometimes. If you can't handle the temptations of the world, go become a monk instead of endlessly complaining about it on the internet, because that's literally what monasteries were made for.

Yoga pants are frowned upon because they aren't modest clothing, and women are supposed to wear modestly.
Go away, shill

cool, so don't let your Christian wife dress immodestly then. Oh, what's that? You don't have a wife? Well ok then. So what do the clothing choices made by secular non-Christian thots have to do with anything? Oh right, it doesn't have anything to do with Christianity, it's just all that thirsty TradLARPers can think about. My bad.

Your ancestors who put their women in skirts had more sex than you.
Modesty and not cross dressing aren't unique to Islam.
Le Pelagian has arrived.

This is your brain on individualism.

This is your brain on Darwinism.
Life is about getting closer to God and living for the resurrection, not about getting your pee pee wet.

so the ancient ascetic practices of the church are Pelagian now, because you'd rather get laid than get closer to God? Nevermind the fact that the entire premise behind monasteries being segregated and secluded goes completely counter to Pelagianism in the first place. But whatever, it's not like Christian practices actually matter to you TradLARPers, you'd all probably be happier just waging jihad to claim your 72 virgins.

really? defending your passion to criticize atheist thots is the cross you're choosing to die on? Now that is pathetically individualistic. I suggest you go pray not to Allah and repent, and get your priorities straight.

also, sage because this thread is retarded and is about a retarded person.

You enjoy looking like a retard online? Of course life is about seeking God, and that involves is avoiding sin, immodesty and tempting people to lust being sins.
You're a Pelagian because you think you can handle the temptations of the world.
Converting the world is a Christian matter. You're an individualist because you don't understand how we can lead others into sin.
"Go and sin no more" is a good cross to die on, yeah.
Everyone who wants to stop you from jerking off to thots in yoga pants is Muslim, the degenerate's guide to arguing online. Take your own advice and stop thinking with your dick.

You seem to think advocating for (or "shilling" in your ridiculous terms) an ascetic lifestyle/monasticism implies that choosing to live in the world somehow means I think I'm capable of being without sin. News flash: It is possible to deal with the temptations the world enough so that we aren't compelled to go full autist and start spamming the internet with self-righteous pride and cringeworthy manufactured outrage. Doesn't mean such people aren't gonna be tempted by the world at all, but God always knows that we're all sinners and none of us are ever going to be perfect anyway, because we're not Jesus. The whole point is to become as Christ-like as possible within our own individual abilities and limitations. But if you're so far gone that mere yoga pants can make you nearly pop a blood vessel, then maybe you need to take a long break from the world and study the ways of the desert fathers. This pointless battle you're taking on against the world, is literally a false idol. Seek help, seriously.

And you're not going to convert anybody by going on autistic tirades against yoga pants. You're a TradLARPer because you think anything having to do with focusing on yourself is le """individualism""" boogeyman, despite Jesus in the gospels clearly stating that we need to concern ourselves with our own salvations above all else, and love God more than we love our own families.

Way to take a verse out of context. That was said after Jesus forgave sins, not whilst autistically complaining about sinful atheists for everyone to hear. If there's one thing you haven't shown in this thread whatsoever, it's forgiveness. And don't even dare to say you're evangelizing and spreading the gospel with that "Trad" nonsense, because that is not what the good news was about.

Funny, that's what I've been saying this entire time. Projection much?

Hope you're getting paid to spread this CatholiTradism goyim!

And once again: sage.

Pelagian cope.
Virtue is autism now.
Maybe one day you'll stop hating yourself.

I'm sorry user, but you have been officially defeated. Keep an open mind and think about what he said. Maybe God is trying to send you a message.

a pseudo white supremacist

do not listen to him

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