Abortion

Cooper Rogers
Cooper Rogers

Christians, what do you think about abortion when a woman get raped? For me, you can't EVER punish the baby and kill him, but what are your thoughts on this?

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Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water
orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/abortion.aspx
orthodoxwiki.org/Abortion
orthodoxchristian.info/pages/abortion2.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus

Jack Peterson
Jack Peterson

If your position on abortion is that it is murder, then does your father being a rapist mean that you should be murdered? I don't see how a christian could support abortion under any circumstances.

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Charles Hughes
Charles Hughes

I agree with you. Abortion is murder. But how can so many "christians" support it?

Nolan Cox
Nolan Cox

I agree with this, however we need to stigmatize it to such an extent. Perhaps to punish abortion to a similar extent.

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Owen Martinez
Owen Martinez

Copy-pasting my comment in the other thread:

Exactly. Also, I reckon it's not a sin to give your baby to adoption. Therefore, the victim, instead of murdering the baby, should give it up for adoption in the case she doesn't feel able to raise the offspring of her rape. As far as I know, there is a big waiting line for baby adoptions, so the child won't even have to live in an orphanage.

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Mason James
Mason James

I don't think most people bother taking their beliefs to their logical conclusion. It is already socially unfashionable to even be pro-life let alone the hard-line position that I take.

Robert Allen
Robert Allen

Yes aborion is murder.

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Anthony Rodriguez
Anthony Rodriguez

The problem with rape is that 1) the woman could have hardly avoided it (so it's not a matter of having sex irresponsibly) and 2) there is a huge mental toll with having to bear and give birth to the son or daughter of your rapist.
Abortion is never acceptable, but there should be a little leniency regarding cases of pregnancy caused by rape. Abortion should absolutely not be the first option but it should remain an option. Let one's pastor decide what is the most spiritually beneficial option.

Abortion should absolutely never be considered at all in every other case, though. Not because of irresponsible sex, not because of incest, not because of high risks of transmitting a disease to the child, and certainly not because of eugenics. I'm 100% with outlawing abortion completely in all these cases.

Now, that's only my personal opinion, and I am not a pastor. The official response of the Church is more strict:
Since the ancient time the Church has viewed deliberate abortion as a grave sin. The canons equate abortion with murder. This assessment is based on the conviction that the conception of a human being is a gift of God. Therefore, from the moment of conception any encroachment on the life of a future human being is criminal.
The Psalmist describes the development of the foetus in a mother’s womb as God’s creative action: «thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb… My substance was not hid from thee, them I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest part of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance» (Ps. 139:13, 15-16). Job testifies to the same in the words addressed to God: «thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about… Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese? Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews. Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved by spirit… Thou brought me forth out of the womb» (Job 10:8-12, 18). «I formed thee in the belly… and before thou comest out of the womb I sanctified thee», says the Lord to the Prophet Jeremiah. «Thou shalt not procure abortion, nor commit infanticide» — this order is placed among the most important commandments of God in the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, one of the oldest Christian manuscripts. «A woman who brought on abortion is a murderer and will give an account to God», wrote Athenagoras, an apologist of the 2nd century. «One who will be man is already man», argued Tertullian at the turn of the 3d century. «She who purposely destroys the foetus, shall suffer the punishment of murder… Those who give drugs for procuring abortion, and those who receive poisons to kill the foetus, are subjected to the same penalty as murder», read the 2nd and 8th rules of St. Basil the Great, included in the Book of Statutes of the Orthodox Church and confirmed by Canon 91 of the Sixth Ecumenical Council. At the same time, St. Basil clarifies: «And we pay no attention to the subtle distinction as to whether the foetus was formed or unformed». St. John Chrysostom described those who perform abortion as «being worse than murderers».

Joseph Jackson
Joseph Jackson

The Church sees the widely spread and justified abortion in contemporary society as a threat to the future of humanity and a clear sign of its moral degradation. It is incompatible to be faithful to the biblical and patristic teaching that human life is sacred and precious from its origin and to recognise woman’s «free choice» in disposing of the fate of the foetus. In addition, abortion present a serious threat to the physical and spiritual health of a mother. The Church has always considered it her duty to protect the most vulnerable and dependent human beings, namely, unborn children. Under no circumstances the Orthodox Church can bless abortion. Without rejecting the women who had an abortion, the Church calls upon them to repent and to overcome the destructive consequences of the sin through prayer and penance followed by participation in the salvific Sacraments. In case of a direct threat to the life of a mother if her pregnancy continues, especially if she has other children, it is recommended to be lenient in the pastoral practice. The woman who interrupted pregnancy in this situation shall not be excluded from the Eucharistic communion with the Church provided that she has fulfilled the canon of Penance assigned by the priest who takes her confession. The struggle with abortion, to which women sometimes have to resort because of abject poverty and helplessness, demands that the Church and society work out effective measures to protect motherhood and to create conditions for the adoption of the children whose mothers cannot raise them on their own for some reason.
Responsibility for the sin of the murder of the unborn child should be borne, along with the mother, by the father if he gave his consent to the abortion. If a wife had an abortion without the consent of her husband, it may be grounds for divorce (see X. 3). Sin also lies with the doctor who performed the abortion. The Church calls upon the state to recognise the right of medics to refuse to procure abortion for the reasons of conscience. The situation cannot be considered normal where the legal responsibility of a doctor for the death of a mother is made incomparably higher than the responsibility for the destruction of the foetus — the situation that provokes medics and through them patients, too, to do abortions. The doctor should be utterly responsible in establishing a diagnosis that can prompt a woman to interrupt her pregnancy. In doing so, a believing medic should carefully correlate the clinic indications with the dictates of his Christian conscience.

Liam Kelly
Liam Kelly

Christians, what do you think about killing a baby when a woman get raped?
Please no.

Asher Clark
Asher Clark

a huge mental toll having to bear and give birth to the son or daughter of your rapist.

Does this justify murdering them?

Bentley Adams
Bentley Adams

No, a baby shouldn't be murdered under any circumstance. Put it up for adoption instead.
there is a huge mental toll with having to bear and give birth to the son or daughter of your rapist
There's a huge mental toll for many things in life. Enduring trauma from one individual does not give you a license to kill other innocent individuals.

Alexander Garcia
Alexander Garcia

You can't punish the child for the crimes of thr father. Ergo rapebabies deserve life just like any other babies. Besides, rape/incest account for less the %1 of the abortions.
If we carve out exceptions for this statistical anomaly, eventually they Molochians will want more and more exceptions until an abortion ban is meaningless.

Rape and incest babies have a right to life too. They should not be punished because of the sins of their fathers.

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Wyatt Foster
Wyatt Foster

This. And the woman's suffering can be somewhat diminished by adoption.

Noah Parker
Noah Parker

I am niether shocked nor suprised when people who are bought off say that not allowing abortion for rape is extreme. It's murder no matter what.

Evan Gonzalez
Evan Gonzalez

sorry little jimmy; Your mom got raped so we're going to have to kill you.

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Christopher Hernandez
Christopher Hernandez

Any compromised position is simply ridiculous as there is no right to kill a third party. That's the whole point. But people will keep being bought off into compromising in any possible way they can, if they don't really care about truth, but just want to "get along."

It just shows you who actually supports truth and who is only about appearances. All compromised positions are in principal no different to each other. But it's so easy to put one little chink in your position to cater to someone and still pretend you're not really abandoning the fight. That's how it shows you who is in it for appearances only and this issue really really shows that.

Blake Brooks
Blake Brooks

abortion only makes it worse. She's going to feel guilt for the rest of her life regardless if it was a rapebaby or nah.

Charles Long
Charles Long

Every single one of us has many ancestors who were the product of rape. If those children didn't deserve to live you don't either.

Hudson Brown
Hudson Brown

Rape is not always rape.
What happens if a man and a woman conspire to have sex without a condom, and the woman claims rape only for the benefit of abortion? Even if the man is charged the woman would change her mind by claiming mental illness and the man would be set free.
I believe people are playing with fire and fraud here, and the best solution is to provide temporary sterilization procedures to prevent accidental pregnancies.

Connor Kelly
Connor Kelly

What I what most people criticize on pro-life is that they don't care about them once they are born so they can now live in misery or poverty with families that didn't want them

Jacob Adams
Jacob Adams

Prohibiting abortion in case of rape would destroy societal integrity, because it would allow the most useless, retarded scumbags to have children with the hottest, smartest, best women by simply raping them.
The OT has several passages approving abortion, several passages approving the slaughter of children. It's all a matter of just cause for death, and being the unwanted child of a rapist is one.
then does your father being a rapist mean that you should be murdered?
Yes.

Zachary Reyes
Zachary Reyes

I've always thought that it was a dumb talking point. That's like stating why people should feel compassion from a homocide/suicide despite them never intervening. It still doesn't make murder acceptable.

Levi Barnes
Levi Barnes

What OT did you read? The version where twitter leftists quote it out of context to justify their sins?

Brandon Allen
Brandon Allen

You people commit a big folly by believing that the child of a rapist is different from the rapist, but it is not so. Behavior is in large part determined by genetics.

Dylan Price
Dylan Price

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water

Elijah Thomas
Elijah Thomas

Prohibiting abortion in case of rape would destroy societal integrity, because it would allow the most useless, retarded scumbags to have children with the hottest, smartest, best women by simply raping them.

thats a bit of a stretch friend; most women who are raped are often close to their rapist and know them; its pretty unlikely that at the top of the social ladder there's literal goblins accosting women and forcing them to bear their kids.

The OT has several passages approving abortion, several passages approving the slaughter of children. It's all a matter of just cause for death, and being the unwanted child of a rapist is one.

The old law is no longer in effect, we follow the new covenant.

Carson Phillips
Carson Phillips

its pretty unlikely that at the top of the social ladder there's literal goblins accosting women and forcing them to bear their kids.
Because abortion in case of rape is legal.
The old law is no longer in effect, we follow the new covenant.
The old law consist of moral and ritual law, and while the ritual law is abolished, the moral is still valid as always.

Kevin Gonzalez
Kevin Gonzalez

Really? You're quick to believe in an implicit statement that can be interpreted differently by everyone else out there, but you want to deny an explicit commandment that condemns man to murder others? Unless if it explitictly states that infanticide is allowed, then it's not allowed.

I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but it's best to stick with verses that are clear cut. Don't fall for the lies of leftists because they all ultimately want to murder babies. Georgia permitted abortion in the case of rape, but they still said that it's not good. Give an inch and they will take it to mile to the point where they endorse infantcide.

Rape accounts for 0.5% of abortion. If you want to see what the majority of abortions are like, look at r/abortion. You'll see plenty of women who want to kill out of convenience.

James Cook
James Cook

You're quick to believe in an implicit statement that can be interpreted differently
It can't be anything but an abortifacient, her thigh rots, her belly swells (=miscarriage), she is shunned and it says nothing of her delivering a child. Abortifacients and contraceptives were known to the ancient peoples, though they weren't reliable.
but you want to deny an explicit commandment that condemns man to murder others?
God gives the 10 commandments in the OT, then tells the Jews to slaughter the Canaanite women and children a few books later. Clearly God isn't an idiot, which means that the 10 commandments apply only within a context.
Rape accounts for 0.5% of abortion.
I'm against general legalization of abortion. I'm against legalizing abortions in case of consensual sex ("i knew you before you were born"), I'm against abortions in case of birth defects (John 9:2-3), but I'm pro legalized abortion in case of rape (the bitter water ordeal).
Have all the women who were raped in wars by no fault of their own, and aborted or even murdered their children, committed sins for wanting to have a normal family and not be expelled from society? It would be highly un-Christian of me to think that. If a woman kills a child unjustly implanted in her, so she can have children rightfully it's not a sin.

Luis Anderson
Luis Anderson

Even then it doesn't make sense as an argument.
<this baby will be poor and probably a little less fortunate than others
<so let's just kill it
I don't know about you, but I'd rather be living in poverty than dead.

James Ortiz
James Ortiz

If we killed off anyone who was descended from somebody who displayed distasteful behavior, we would have to all kill ourselves.

Evan Clark
Evan Clark

You know, I dont understand why we cant develop ways to extract the fetus without killing it.
With modern incubators keeping it alive until it is old enought shouldn't be a problem.

Kayden Allen
Kayden Allen

They're low-iq normalfags who are easily swayed by abortion propganda

Bentley Wright
Bentley Wright

Women who procure abortions should be executed with the doctors

Lucas Diaz
Lucas Diaz

I was about to say the same thing

Cameron Bennett
Cameron Bennett

once again, this shit right here is why protestantism is shit. Sorry if it looks like i'm looking for a excuse to shit on protestantism, but i just can't help myself to point this out.

Matthew Jenkins
Matthew Jenkins

Or maybe they should be talked out of whatever hopeless situation they feel they are in instead, you know, like a Christian would.

Jordan Gonzalez
Jordan Gonzalez

I'm Orthodox. The Orthodox church allows abortion in case of rape by turks. In a non-dysgenic society this reasoning could extend to include all cases of rape.
The problem with liberal Western society is that fornication is everywhere, so it blurs the border between rape and consensual sex. In a society where people are married and adultery is punishable by law this is not the case, rapes won't be of the blurred lines (non)-consensual acquaintance-kind of variety, but of the back-alley predatory type variety, which is akin to rapes by turks, and thus the Orthodox church should allow abortion in these cases as well.

Evan Hernandez
Evan Hernandez

that's a negative, at least in catholicism. iirc the church says that a natural birth with a child in the womb is what is best.

Cameron Martin
Cameron Martin

lel no wonder russia's abortion abortion rate is the greatest in europe

Brandon Allen
Brandon Allen

No, it's because of atheism, there are not many turks there.

Lincoln Adams
Lincoln Adams

it allows the scum of society to have children with the hottest, most intelligent women.
Your utilitarian and materialistic view of the human being is not supported by God or Christianity.

Jose Smith
Jose Smith

It is supported by practicality. God cannot want his followers to fail, because a weak society will be conquered and their faith in God destroyed.

Michael Wright
Michael Wright

Murdering an innocent baby will not unrape her mother.

Connor Scott
Connor Scott

are you catholic?

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Lincoln Young
Lincoln Young

are you catholic

Previously not because Utilitarianism and Materialism are heresies.
t. Cat-o-lic

Dominic Bailey
Dominic Bailey

Previously not
I meant Obviously.

using autocorrect is apostasy

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John James
John James

No, but Christmases really suck when dad's there.

Jaxson Brown
Jaxson Brown

As an Alabamian, it makes me happy all of these roasties, fags, etc. got so buttblasted about my state trying to be more Christian. Abortion is murder.

Jackson Watson
Jackson Watson

I agree, but forcing her to carry it will disgrace her further.

Jeremiah Gomez
Jeremiah Gomez

No it wouldn't, modernist. Having her murder her own child will bring FAR more disgrace than having her take responsibility for her actions and carry the baby to full term. She doesn't have to keep it. She can always give it up for adoption. Murder of the most innocent of beings is never okay.
REPENT!

Leo Gray
Leo Gray

To abort a fetus conceived in rape is to meet evil with another.

Noah Bailey
Noah Bailey

I know it is not ideal but is the only way to make both parties happy.
In an ideal world, abortion woudn't be a thing but this protects a life.

Ethan Phillips
Ethan Phillips

wanting to make satanists happy
Why?

Ian Powell
Ian Powell

I'd start killing everybody on sight then because I can guarantee you that everyone is blood-related to a murderer, thief or rapist.

Colton Roberts
Colton Roberts

The Orthodox church allows abortion in case of rape by turks.
Are you sure that is the case? A quick search would suggest that the Orthdox church makes the case against abortion in principle, thus it would be somewhat strange for them to back-pedel from it, even against turks and such:
orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/abortion.aspx
orthodoxwiki.org/Abortion
orthodoxchristian.info/pages/abortion2.htm

Austin Myers
Austin Myers

The high rate of rape resulted in the temporary permission of abortion in Cyprus by the conservative Cypriot Orthodox Church.[127][128]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus
I'm pretty sure that this has been the case throughout history.

Aaron Moore
Aaron Moore

than having her take responsibility for her actions
What actions? Misogyny is a sin.
A woman's fertility is very short, she will get married in her early 20s and best, and lose her healthy fertility by 35, that's just 10 years, 120 months. You can't force a woman to sacrifice 12+ (pregnancy + recovery) of those months for the child of a rapist. You can't force society or anyone to care for the child of a rapist.
And what if she's a mother? Should she carry the child pretending to her other children it's their fathers', and then make up some story when she gives it away? That what would be lying.
Abortion is the only course of action, even if it means killing a child.

Anthony Gonzalez
Anthony Gonzalez

You people are Americans, you live in sheltered mixed-race societies of abundance where carrying out and even raising the child of rapist presents no significant discomfort to anyone. Ironically it is such dysgenic societies which are most suited for these strictest abortion laws that are incapable of bringing them into force. You think you will ever overturn Roe v Wade? Sooner will the US collapse.

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Tyler Morales
Tyler Morales

808226
Reported.

Xavier Nelson
Xavier Nelson

With God all things are possible, /pol/yp. Roe v Wade will be overturned and order will return to this nation.

Ethan Sanchez
Ethan Sanchez

Cry harder, molochian

Grayson Morris
Grayson Morris

I'm of the opposite camp on that one. I believe Roe v Wade will be strengthened, causing more trials and tests for Christians.

Lucas Howard
Lucas Howard

Not a nugget or 03 springfield… 98 mauser?

Camden Wood
Camden Wood

if you make legislation making abortion illegal the satanists win

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Christian Mitchell
Christian Mitchell

Its a FN m/30 Mauser chink contract, made for one of their wars, possibly seen combat in Their brutal war against Japan.

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Jackson Young
Jackson Young

Strengthening RvW isn't going to help distract everyone. Instead, RvW will either be repealed remanding the issue to the states to keep the matter in the news for the next ever, or the Alabama law will be struck down by a slim majority depedent on RBG, keeping the matter in the news for the next ever. Meanwhile, trans-positive sex ed will be pushed on fourth graders on the theory that it would reduce abortions.

Thomas Price
Thomas Price

The baby inherited the sin of the father and it is up to the mother to decide is my stance. This is also my position for a married women that was involved in adultery. Another baby can easily take its place. God's killed plenty of people for less, which isn't bad btw. Obviously having dumpsters full of fetuses isn't great though.

Asher Smith
Asher Smith

Roe v Wade will be overturned
any day now I'm sure

Isaiah Baker
Isaiah Baker

Her actions

Jayden Davis
Jayden Davis

It takes two to tango

Henry Sullivan
Henry Sullivan

Do you know what rape is?

Eli Flores
Eli Flores

Did you know that not all fornication is rape and is actually consented to?
Did you know that rapebabies still have the same right to life as anyone else? Did you know that abortion accounts for less than 1% of the reasons why women get abortions?
Did you know that no one has the right to murder anyone?

Jayden Scott
Jayden Scott

All abortion is murder 100%, however I sympathise with those who would allow it for victims of rape. Rape is a brutal, life-ruining experience which can take an unbearably heavy mental and spiritual toll on a woman. Some women never recover from the experience, some go on to self-harm and even take their own lives because of it. Having first experienced the torture of the rape itself, if the victim falls pregnant then she has to endure nine months of her body being compromised - a normal pregnancy is an exhausting, painful, daunting emotional experience, but a joyful one in the end - pregnancy by rape will bring all of the hardships and emotional volatility of a normal pregnancy, but might bring additional hardships as the woman carries a constant reminder of her rape with her.

With abortion being available as it is now then ultimately it is up to each individual victim to decide whether or not she can bear the burden of rape pregnancy. regarding those who can't, I acknowledge it is a sin, but it's a sin commited out of desperation and the desire to alleviate one's suffering rather than out of carelessness or a desire to commit evil. Sins can be forgiven.

One thought I've had is that in such cases the rapist might also be held responsible for the murder of the aborted child, maybe that makes sense from a worldy-justice perspective but I don't think it gets to the heart of the issue and wouldn't make the situation any less tragic.

As a man all I can do is hope and pray that none of my loved ones ever have to suffer the horror of rape. Not only for their sake but for mine as well, it might sound selfish but I don't think I could handle it if a woman I love fell pregnant by rape. It would be a massive mental and emotional burden for me as well.

In a way it's a relief to see that less than 1% of abortions are due to rape - obviously every abortion and every rape is tragic but I take it to mean that conception by rape is very rare. Obviously where it happens it can't be ignored but it seems like abortion discussions always get diverted by exceptional cases like these and descend into whataboutism

Asher Foster
Asher Foster

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Angel Ortiz
Angel Ortiz

I said something similar and it got deleted. What if the raped woman is already a mother, how will she explain the rape child to her other children if she gives it away? Unless you fully cuck yourself and accept rape children with a smile you are a heretic according to the Catholic moderation of this board.
So I guess your post will also be deleted in 3, 2, 1, …

Blake Lewis
Blake Lewis

Their main argument (at least the ones who aren't patently evil) is that it's fine to kill that which is unborn. What are your arguments for life beginning at conception?

Some Christians say that foetuses are not life and instead property as in Exodus 21:22-25 if a woman is injured so as to have her miscarry, the aggressor's compensation to the husband isn't "life for life". Some misconstrue this verse to mean if she aborts it herself, which I can't see it being read that way in good faith.

Other arguments are a few Bible verses that equate the beginning of life with breath (Genesis 2:7, Adam's life began when he first drew breath). There are many more verses about life inside the womb, so I think this is easily dismissed.

Austin Ross
Austin Ross

Adam's life didn't begin with his breath. It began with God's breath. But ever since, this power has continued, like an eternal electrical current starting with Adam and animating all life automatically. Adam wasn't born like we were. He was formed from the earth. But we experience animation into life instantly and seamlessly. Not merely when we breath like he did, but when we are in our mother's wombs (which Adam didn't experience). The wonder of human life has never stopped since that first moment.

That argument about breath being the only indicator is borrowed from rabbinic thinking. The Jews are lost. No need to listen to them. Even the Didache condemned abortion, and that was a peer document with the Gospels and Epistles since it was written in the first century itself. And not only does it condemn abortion, but it separates that from the other crime of killing a baby when he/she is "born". They couldn't be more explicit and no one has any excuse. They knew the difference and both types of killing were equally repugnant.

"Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not corrupt youth; thou shalt not commit fornication; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not use soothsaying; thou shalt not practise sorcery; thou shalt not kill a child by abortion, neither shalt thou slay it when born; thou shalt not covet the goods of thy neighbour" - Didache 2:2

Thomas Hughes
Thomas Hughes

In Israel, abortion is 100% legal and 100% free.

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Thomas Ross
Thomas Ross

Stop selling it

Anthony Ortiz
Anthony Ortiz

Natural determinism isn't Christian.

David Gutierrez
David Gutierrez

Seriously, this. Behavior is learned nit engrained in the DNA. If that were true than I would be an alcoholic like my paternal grandfather and uncles. It's a /pol/ish lie to justify hatred of all blacks and lump them in with ñiggers.

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