I know that most of you hate the EU because it's forcing right-wing economic policies on it's member states, but is there really no way to reuse EU's infrastructure for creation of ESU?
Could revolution in brussels change how EU function or it would not be valid by international law?
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No, brussel does not command direct power. You cannot coup the EU as it is not a country with a chain of command to take over. The other countries would simple ignore brussel and probably go to war in belgium.
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Hmm… EU do have legislative power over it's member states, but if revolution happened and EU were to be renamed to ESU, all international agreements would have been invalid.
So what do we need, from purely accelerationist standpoint, from EU to develop? It's own army?
i like being in the eu and the eu as a concept a lot despite shit politics reactionaries, fascists and liberals force. it obviously needs A LOT of reforms but there's no need to dismantle it, lefty parties just need to get stronger.
reminder:
tankies are wannabe MLs that don't want to read theory
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The EU is anti-democratic in that it seeks to take power from national parliaments and electorates and vest it in treaties and technocrats (for want of a better word). One of its purposes is to make it harder for the people to make reforms against the will of the elite. So its existence makes reformist socialism harder.
Also, although pan-European socialist institutions would be a good thing, the EU is so fundamentally anti-socialist that it would be easier to tear it down and start again.
Get this Eurocommunist trash out of here
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what exact praxis do you suggest other than voting for communist parties?
Voting is important in the meantime before revolution but so is agitation, education, and insurrection.
How would you do a revolution in Brussels?
Revolution can only happen in the wesr after a leftist political victory
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Papa Cockshott has blessed us with this
You deprive Juncker off alcohol. Seriously, that guy is a living parody of a EU politician.
The only thing I'm looking forward to from the EU which will be beneficial for future socialism is unification in things like telecommunication and railways. A european railway network would save us some effort later on.
what's more anti-democratic about that than national parliaments taking power from from regional and local parliaments and electorates?
that works only when leftist factions on eu level are weak or do not even exist
strong pan-european socialist factions on eu level make weak socialist factions on national level stronger. meanwhile strong weak socialist factions can do NOTHING when strong national right-wing factions on national level decide to switch into national imperialist mode again.
the eu itself as a concept is not anti-left, the ruling politicians, lobbyists and most ngos in brussels are. if you can't differentiate between that you are just fucking stupid.
that's not the eu itself, it's the corrupt corporate lobby that is corrupting the eu. most of those are private organizations run by corporations and aristocrats.
why don't you join a cult or something?
Wanna pitch in on this.
We are currently killing the fucking planet with these fucking airplanes, especially in europe. This is because there is no cooperation between rail networks, no good big plans for big high speed rail, and because air travel does not have taxes on it. Within europe, most journeys, even between countries, could be much faster with high speed rail than with airplanes, cheaper and better for the environment.
For planes, you have to be there at least an hour in advance, go through screening, etc etc, then when you land you are in the middle of fucking nowhere. A highspeed rail? There you could arrive 10 minutes in advance, purchase a ticket a day or so before departure (if you need to pre-purchase tickets at all), get on without any hassle and you are off. No taxiing across the airport, no security, no baggage limits, you can take all the shampoo you wish.
If the EU could pull its shit together and create a trans-european highspeed network you could make travel within europe much simpler, cheaper, quicker and enjoyable. The important thing here would be not to make the trains run between big cities, but to run it at larger intervals. If that means you skip a large metropole because its within 40 km of another one, then that is just fine, people who want to cross europe can do the other 40 km to the more centrally located one on their own. This allows the trains to keep up to speed, allowing it to traverse much greater lengths.
I hope to see this in my life. Even better if we can make those trains, just like all public transport ought to be, free. Those trains going 300 km an hour can do paris-amsterdam much quicker than those airplanes if you include the taxiing, getting to the airport, going through security, baggage claiming, etc. Especially if it did not stop at antwerp and rotterdam and schiphol, which costs you a lot of time.
Running these trains more frequently would also spread the cost per passenger of the rail itself, in addition to making it a much more attractive option for travel within europe.
Because as I said, it's given to unelected committees and bound up in treaties. If the EU institutions were as democratic as the national-level ones they're replacing, it wouldn't be a valid criticism.
They're always going to be weak/non-existent because the EU is set up to keep them that way.
In what situation would socialist parties ever have more power in the EU than at national level, when the EU is set up to have less room for democratic change than nation-states?
You are the idealist reincarnation of Eduard Bernstein you dumb motherfucker, YES, the EU itself is anti-left. Have you ever looked into the history of the EU? It was quite literally a project by French and German industrial capital in the form of the ECSC (European Coal and Steel Community) to create the capitalist base for the uneasy alliance between De Gaulle and Adenauer to stop the "communist tide", and it has since then been used as a platform by porky with the single purpose to make Europe more "business friendly" and to increase the rate of expolitation of the European toiling masses, it's parliament is a kangaroo parliament with no power. Read Lenin first maybe? Even if there would be a major revolution in the center of Europe, don't you think the states would not just form a new confederacy anyway? Why is there any need to keep this neoliberal hull arround? That's like saying "the American government is not necessarily a bad thing and it should be kept arround when there is a revolution in California and Washington State" - what the fuck? Why?
current national level and regional level insititutions are just as corrupt as eu level institutions, if not worse. for example here in germany bribing officials isn't even illegal. i have no idea what makes you believe otherwise.
yeah if you keep being defeatist, talking down all efforts. thanks. t. porky
how so? right-wingers are definitely much more powerful and influential, but that's because they have banks and lobby groups. yet there's a small leftist faction, which could grow much larger if voters decide so, nothing is preventing that.
the EU itself has to go, but i wouldn't discard an EU like thing for future communist countries, except instead of having a giant trade agreement we just have one gigantic economic plan
i never implied that, you stupid child. go fuck yourself in your echo chamber. and please stop relating yourself to lenin. you are the type of fool who would have ruined his efforts.
In Germany you have a government which depends on winning parliamentary elections. The EU institutions don't give a fuck how the EU parliamentary elections go.
It wouldn't matter how big it was because the EU parliament has very limited powers.
what makes you think that our national institutions give a fuck about how the elections go? there was not a single change in politics since 1945.
you think our national parliament has more power to actually change something than the eu parliament? you are deluded.
The EU is structurally capitalist with its Charter of Fundamental Rights which includes private property and its system of checks and balances which ensures you can never touch Porky's property. You can no more reform the EU than you can reform single bourgeois states.
So you think neither matters, and reform is impossible at either level? That isn't what you were saying earlier:
The point is that the European Parliament has less powers within the apparatus of the European Union than the national parliaments have within their respective states. For example, the European Parliament cannot even propose new "laws" (regulations, directives, etc). You can stop saging now, you double nigger.
You are incapable of making an argument. Participation in bourgeois politics is to be used as a scalpel, do it when it offers prospects, not as a means to sell out everything you believe. I don't think I would have opposed Lenin in anything he did. Clearly you just confuse political activism with Clintonite talking points.
I even said I would appreciate commie parties in the EP, yet you still attack me for wanting the EU gone? Kill yourself you stupid motherfucking scumbag.
i think both are equally corrupt.
if you never even try you will never achieve anything, including the special snowflake blend of marxism that you believe that is the only one that is not revisionist. there is a leftist faction in brussels which brings together leftists from different eu member states in the eu parliament and they enjoy all the same rights as the right-wingers. nothing is stopping them in terms of legislation to grow larger and become a challenge to the right-wingers/liberals/reactionaries.
what strikes me is how people can be so naive to believe that dismantling the eu and going back to only nationalist governments would bring more democracy, better living conditions for workers and better political opportunities for socialists and communists inside of the nation states instead of bringing back old-fashioned imperialism i.e. less democracy, less worker's rights and all the other bullshit imperialism entails, including large scale war (after brexit it took the brits just 2 weeks to threaten eu member spain with full-scale war over gibraltar!) within europe. some might even believe that dismantling eu institutions would disturb international networking of nationalist corporate elites and aristocrats. it would not, because their networks don't need the eu, corporate lobby networks are private networks and will continue working against working class interests the same way with or without the eu. who do you think is forcing anti-eu sentiment? communists/socialists? nope. international corporations and oligarchs, particularly from burgerland, HATE eu regulations and want more freedumz. there i said it: the eu does something good now and then for europeans. you can call me revisionist and eurocommunist and whatnot now again. i'm quite disappointed with Zig Forums anyway at this point, with the other germans on here in particular. säge
get off my dick already, you illiterate zealot. you jumped on me and called me "eurocommunist" and "revisionist" without knowing anything about me in terms of ideology, quoted me with things i never said and then you whine when i snap back at you. fuck you.
Laws are proposed by the European Commission though which is just a bunch of porkies and are allowed to resubmit a rejected law to the Parliament again and again until they are forced to pass it.
the EU can be taken or left but unless your aim is a united states of europe the euro needs to DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE, it's completely indefensible economic ineptitude to have a shared currency without shared fiscal policy.
the EU itself is anti-left in that the fundamental assumptions underlying it only hold true under capitalism.
why, under Europe-wide socialism, would there be a hard border between France and Germany? There wouldn't - okay - so why do we need the EU to ensure free movement of goods, services and labour? Those things would be quite natural without any organisation.
It is quite plausible that there would be some kind of European Union, but it's equally possible it would be a lowkey organisation like the Scandinavian Union or Celtic League
Shit, i guess Britain should just rename itself to the Very United Kingdom so that it automatically leave the EU and all agreement are null. You just solved all problems what a legend.
you are new here, aren't you?
Im not even new. Maybe a full on Europe wide revolution could do something with the EU, but the suggestion that if the EU renamed its self to the ESU somehow all previous international arrangements would just cease to exist is ridiculous and an extraordinary oversimplification.
Also just saying "revolution" as if that's an argument in its self is anarkidde tier.
shitposting flag obviously
The reef is not exclusively Roman. In this case it respresents prosperity. Question is, what's wrong with either prosperity or Rome? Rome was the largest, most progressive Empire for a long time. Regions living under Roman rule enjoyed prosperity never-before-seen for hundreds of years. It was the fall of Rome in the first place that created feudalism and then capitalism after that. With this historical knowledge in mind, was Rome ever really that bad compared to the world that came after it?
comrade, except that is pretty much how it works by international law. If USA had a revolution and people's uprising would tell that USA no longer exist, we are USSA now, they would start from point zero - every single agreement between country X and United States of America would be invalid because no such country as USA exist anymore. No debts would have to be payed and all trade agreements would have to be renegotiated.
Sure, there are some conditions which have to be met, like it really needs to be a revolution not just ruling party coup and so on.