Politically Confused user Here

The problem is, we live lives of comfort surrounded by the goods purchased by the peanuts we get for helping the elite amass their fortunes. Capitalism is exploitation for profit, and it's quite nice when you aren't being exploited the hardest. But still, it forces us to craft our existence around appeasing corporations to get this liveable wage, and the corporations do as little for us as they can without making us revolt.

The lucky of us are comfortable, but the bulk of the resources are in the hands of an elite few and the planet is suffering immensly.

The left wants a system that isn't based on exploitation of the many for the benefit of the few.

Like this user says without saying directly, it's actually a matter of ethics in the sense of ethos or habitus (not morals). Exploitation is obviously shit (it 'degrades' both parties), but people who mix up productivity with moralfaggotry, like Adam Smith and the Protestants did, are not my comrades.
(me) I'd just like to clarify that I don't really care from a moral standpoint about bourgeois decadence. Nice things are nice (again, ethics and taste defines what you think is nice), but rape is not a nice thing.

We are after a complete change in the economic system and complete democratisation of the world. We seek to approach the world around us and the social world as engineers, though we are careful not to be reductionists. You will have to learn about the very basics of materialism from some of our older authors. I recommend 'Marxism and Modern Idealism' for a very basic starting guide. From there, you can move on to reading the works of the Marxist tradition, watching YT videos made by Marxists who attempt to explain these things, using blogs and thinking about how Marxists view the world. Of course, you must, must, MUST understand dialectics regardless of whether you intend to use that kind of logic or not.

OK now a clarifying question.

Hey I didn't ask for schitzo-posting

Tell me how this strikes yall:

The user you're replying to isn't going to understand any of that shit lmao

Going down to my rugby club in 2015 seeing my dad and a lot of other dads out of work despite all being skilled workers: I started reading and never stopped.
Honestly, in terms of economic viability leftist thought has better self-criticism than neolibs or even keynesians. Politically, it depends on where you live: the UK could elect a genuine socialist government soon but the issue is over a soft or hard coup.
Oh 100%, I know his sort: "daddy will sort this out so I can be a cunt". If he lived in Britain he would be a young tory, I fucking hate the lot of them.

Y'all are just 20 year faggots who look up big words. None of what yall have said has been coherent. Literally just ramblings that you hope people think mean something due to the use of big words.

What is your point? No one argues that capitalism hasn't been progressive at some point and efficient at producing material wealth. ESPECIALLY no one but Khmer Rouge fans argues that we need to destroy everything capitalism has created. Transitioning from capitalism to socialism is the WHOLE point of leftism.

Yes, we're all hardcore primitivists here
The agricultural revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

Hi Zig Forums! actually, the majority of posts were accessible to anyone with a high school level education as long as you were also introduced to the technical terms. If you were OP, then I'd suggest that perhaps you'd like to ask for definitions of the terms you don't understand, not knowing things isn't anything to be ashamed of, however throwing a tantrum over intellectual insecurity definitely is!

I am pretty familiar with the terms. I literally think what a lot of what has been has not be coherent. Like the words together do not make sense or communicate a point.

Reminder that Zig Forums is illiterate.

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Would you mind pointing out some examples of what you don't find coherent? Which terms are you not familiar with and which are you? Could you explain them in your own words?

Perhaps you could ask some follow up questions? I don't speak for other posters here but there's a difference between something literally not making sense and you not thinking that the ideas are coherent. Would you mind expanding on what exactly it is that you want?

Woah, when did these "environmentalists" get TENS of BILLIONS of DOLLARS for their LIBERAL JEWISH SCHEMES

What do these scores mean? All I see is that the Left is more difficult to read and uses more difficult words. Which I don't think helps there case….because at the end of the day, the idea of spreading a message is for it to be well transmitted and well received.

Worker control, democracy free from the rule of money, internationalism, ending exploitation
Consider the long-term sustainibility of capitalism.
I don’t know either way. He could have, I could see it, but I’m not going to get swept away by the radlib current of denying him a presumption of innocence. Kavanaugh has much bigger problems than these accusations

we are not 'left,' we are communists

OP Here

Tell me if this is acurate:

He's memeing, look at the example texts, but that is a series of indicators for depth & complexity of texts in order to calculate a reading level

more-less correct.

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Being a communist simply makes the most sense in terms of self-interest, for the vast majority of the population. Don't make the mistake of turning Marxism into a moral philosophy, Marx himself repeatedly rejects this tendency. We don't care for charity, which is an institution designed to cover up fundamental structural problems in capitalist social rlations. We don't care for "ethical consumption" and frugal living, which are memes to appease the productive class. Communists want to enjoy life to the fullest and live in a society where they have direct control over their economic relations and conscious exercise of available social wealth. This is not possible in capitalism so the choice is simple for those who don't earn their living on passive property or inheritance.

Its interesting to see the transition from "You're just using big words to seem intelligent" to "Well, I know what the words mean!" to "You're using hard words and it hurts your cause. muh words oppressing me" in only a few posts. Thanks for calling my stuff "schitzo", you illiterate.

Pretty cozy if you find people who follow the main general ideas and simultaniously neverending sectarianism and autism over the smallest points
Its based on solving material issues, rather than muh culture, and as such actually accomplish things, as all culture is shaped by reality.
Yup
I could not give a rats ass about america to be honest. Does it really make a difference? You know all too well that the current institutions and the people who control them are irredeemably corrupt, it doesnt matter if its rapey guy 1 or guy 2 who didnt rape but basically is the same.
No u. Also this is a nice board. Lets be friends.

Most people in the world are not.
Over the past decades in the first world we have seen decline of unions, a non-growth of real wages despite growing productivity, increasing atomization (lonely tfw no gf/bf people) and increasing economic decline and ghettoization which led to a wave of terrorism in europe and america. Furthermore, it is becoming harder for youngster to get an education or job by the day, houses are harder and harder to find, the crisis from 07 has not ended for working people and another crisis will hit soon, once either the new trumpian bubble bursts or the chinese building bubble bursts. Social mobility is at an all time low in the first world, the gap between rich and wealthy grows and grows, the "middle class" is collapsing into the working class, birthrates are declining and the climate is litterally going to kill us in a few decades.

If you think people are "living a comfortable life" you havent paid attention post-9/11. It has been disaster after disaster, with no hope, and increasing migrationstreams fleeing worsening conditions in the third world.

Oh and tl;dr for why capitalism collapses:

1. Bussinesses compete, some win, some lose, less survive and eat up the smaller ones
2. Big bussinesses have a competitive advantage (can operate at a loss for a time to eliminate smaller competition, can buy political power, can outadvertise them, economy of scale, paternttrolling, etc)
3. As bussinesses compete their profit margins shrink. They can only make more money by cutting costs. This means reducing wages or material. The only way to cut wages is to lower pay or automate. If you automate you fire the old workers and make super-profits for a while, until competition catches up, at which point you now make no more extra profit, but you have to maintain the machines. Meanwhile, if you either fire workers or lower their wages, now the amount of stuff you can sell is less since people have less money. Economy stagnates, yadayada, basic keynesian economics. Marx wrote 3 whole books on it but its complex and involved LTV to explain why profit margins tends to drop over time in all of society.
4. Less people can buy shit, the less people have work the less they can buy, the less is produced, the less jobs there are, cycle repeats. You know how it is, lots of unemployed people with time to spare, lots of work to do, the unemployed people are getting fed and clothed but they dont do usefull work. According to economists the market will fix this but it seems to me that we might as well skip the middleman and make people do usefull things without "the market".
5. Bussiness cycles are a natural part of markets and destroy livelihoods time and time again, during their bubble they invest into useless bubble economy and during the collapse they destroy lives and whole countries and waste resources. Meanwhile, each cycle the profit margins go down (as shown in empirical data), which means that industry will stagnate.

More shit but its 1 am and im going to sleep

It strikes me that you should read some marx because he litterally said that already. Capitalism is great at quickly building industry and contralizing all means of production. Marx himself already said
Feudalism -> capitalism -> socialism/communism

Youre not really saying something new here. We should and could have transitioned way earlier than now though.

Zig Forums here, I have some questions for Zig Forums while we're having this thread.
Let's get the big one out of the way: What do you guys think about the Jewish question?
Second, how do you view the rest of the left? I mean this as in the more mainstream left, as opposed to us shitposters.
Lastly, how is board traffic here compared to Zig Forums? Does not having a cuckchan Zig Forums board help or hurt traffic here?

Direct Democracy (both in politics and the economy), Nationalization of all companies, Abolishment of Money, increased resources devoted to technological innovation.

Because the left is the only political position that wishes to prevent your boss from screwing you over.

Probably not, he might of though

As the rate of profit falls investment becomes less profitable, eventually profits will turn negative, and that is when Capitalism will finally collapse. Capitalism is unsustainable.

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who cares? he's a monster and shouldnt be on the supreme court anyway
Actually the SC is garbage so it shouldn't even exist anyway.

siiiiiiiiggghhhh

Jews (genetic) are okay
Israel = shit , Zionism = shit
Judaism = shit, no joke, the worst parts of the Bible are almost entirely in the old testament
Jewish "identity" and Jewish "culture" = mighty spooky

I hate SJWs and especially loathe liberals, democrats, mainstream left. They're more of a challenge and threat to us than nazis are.

Zig Forums is much much slower than Zig Forums but I think that benefits the quality of discussion. Faster boards = shorter, lower effort posts. No one wants to get lost in the flood.

Probably, but the fact that it happened in his teens and college years and there is no evidence that he did anything in his actual adult life eliminates its legitimacy as a reason to block his nomination.
The real reason he shouldn't have been nominated and should have his life and reputation ruined is the fact he's a Bush goon who played an important role in all of that that administration's foreign, and domestic, national security bullshit that Burgerdom seems to have completely forgotten about.

You still here OP?

It suits your interest

Yeah

Who cares.
The entire supreme court is a relic, and every single one of those cretins should be forced to fight to death in televised battle royale for the enjoyment of fat fucking americans.

because of the tendency of capital to accumulate and capital's complete indifference towards all that is good and holy

cockshottism might be viable

i'm surprised you got any serious answers to this question. The posters here are quite far removed from day to day news in American government. They're more interested in:

(kav dindu nuffin btw)

He's hitting the dictionary/thesaurus

OP here

Here's my take on the only way a socialist/communist future will unfold.

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There is not chance in fuck there's going to be a real socialist revolution. It's gotta be cheap and its gotta be easy. Plug everyone in a computer. Boom. Done. Everyone gets to be lazy.

You're fucking retarded. Get a vasectomy.

Basic income is not socialist, Milton Friedman who was very right-wing supported it decades ago.

Suck a dick. At least my area of expertise is in something practical. Rather than thinking about fantasy utopia shit that is never going to happen

I now assert you are all just lazy and schitzo. Counter that point.

I'll suck yours if you do what I asked.

Lenin had this exact same mindset not long before 1917.

Things change very quickly sometimes, and with things pointing to another economic collapse within the next two or so years it may be soon that things change very very quickly again.

Our point right now is to use arguments to criticize how our system is currently working, so that people will themselves notice it and criticize it themselves.

There's no "t" in it. It's just "schizo".

I need some credentials. I'm a masters degree fag. Are yall Larping teens?

oh, youvve read a few academic papers on the matter? cute. i have read over 100000 posts.

Masters in what?

Management. Undergrad was economics though.

Wow dude, learning how to boss around underlings with positive psychology? Super practical. I take back everything I said about you. You could be an apparatchik in our Party someday. Were you one of those people who paid other kids to do your work in undergrad too?

One could argue that we communists are not "leftists" in the sense of the bourgeois scale of left and right politics, but want to smash the political compass. As Marx says it:

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Nope but exam answers were passed around sometimes. Pretty fucking despicable that that stuff is rampant at major universities.

My girlfriend had to study management as a minor. Shit was ridiculous. Most lectures didn't go further than some self-help Chinese fortune cookie wisdom. I refuse to accept management classes as an academic subject, it's barely a craft, and most of the times it is so dependent on personal charisma and social predisposition.

If there was something Soviet managers in the late 70s/early 80s needed were some modern psychology and motivational skills.

The social part was precisely why I took. As a natural introvert it forced me to get better socially and learn how to work with and through others.

Really goes to show what a Burgerstani education is worth. I have a bachelor's in a physical science and I'm in a master's program for teaching said science. The difference in courses is night and day. Education courses are largely concerned with 'management' as school is more and more obviously just a pretext to incarcerate the children of the proles while their parents work. Science students are pretty insulated from it but the overall intellectual state of things is extremely decadent. The best social diagnostician of the XX century was a very lazy man named Guy Debord and his magnum opus is called Society of the Spectacle. A state education and degree is worth much less than a fundamental grasp of language, logic, and ethics.

Here's how the modern day work environment works. Managers are the best looking, have the best sex, or have the best degree. Period. Them simply being there should cause all workers to feel inadequate, causing them to compensate in the form of working harder. That is my observation at least.

Yeah I wish I had gone in to computer science myself. Super "decadent" as you put it, but also very in demand in industry. I'm playing catch up now, learning SQL and Python

Never thought about it that way. Real libidinal economy stuff.

Exactly, and it is making work unbearable for people like myself who are not sexually driven, as opposed to intellectually driven.

As someone who thinks of himself as both, is decent-looking but pretty bad with people, I'm really sorry. It's fucked up in the 'teaching profession' where it's a very de-instinctivized, de-sexualized environment, sterile and mind-warping, and that's why you get even female teachers fucking students sometimes. Always through history I think people like you have been a caste apart, but capitalist modernity has really left you in the dust. The best you (in their world) can do is work in some field that ultimately relates to weapons development. Intellectuals aren't in the universities. I think our only hope is a sort of social secession. Herman Hesse painted an optimistic picture of such a future in his Glass Bead Game.

A revolution as its traditionally imagined? No. But despite what Marxists think that's not the only way to seize power or bring about massive change.

Ppl like you once said the same about slavery and feudalism. They also had religion on their side. "No masters? No Lords? But it's God's/the gods' way!"

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...

most full of former Berniecrats that are just edgy liberals.

I stand for what I believe in, even if its fucked up.

I thought people believing this was a meme.

Grade level 15 isn't that good though. Certainly better than 6 but still underaged.

Wouldn't grade 15 be undergraduate college level, if grades 5-8 are middle school, 9-12 are highschool, 13-16 are college?

Yeah
Zig Forums writes at a university level
Zig Forums can barely read a cereal box

Just saying, these posts are by different people. The second one is me replying to who I thought was OP after he says he says his 'area of expertise is in something practical' and then I think the same person says he has a master's in 'management'.

OP here: yall need to get unique poster IDs so theres no confusion

this is actually another reason why sage exists

sage hides ID's

A lot of Zig Forums topics would be better on a textboard than an imageboard. We don't use reaction images very much because we're not middle schoolers, and when a reference image is really necessary, it can just be linked to, like it is on every other service under the sun.

Vocabulary is so highly corelated with intelligence that it's routinely used as a predictor.

More free time than we have now – I mean seriously, we spend almost half our waking hours making someone else richer – but to be clear, we're most definitely not anywhere near ending the need for work.

I think it will probably go down in one massive tard rage of rampaging imperialism, to be honest.

When the revolution comes, the workers will gangrape you until your mind breaks.
pretty kinky huh?

My point still stands.

OP here:

New test for you faggots:

That's not a test, dipshit, you're asking us to use a completely hypothetical situation to derive a comprehensive political-economic plan. Why don't you ask us which hypothetical hair on your balls we pluck to cause the most pain? - That would be easier since there's only three or four choices.

Impossible. President Barron Trump would kill 90% of the US population with nukes to prevent a revolution before he would even consider turning to communism for a second.

But if he went completely insane and actually asked for my advice, I'd just tell him to distribute military surplus to workers and unions, then resign (after causing as much administrative chaos as he can). The rest would sort itself out.

Alright, now the President is out of the picture, so all further advice applies to the proletariat only.

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personally i don't think capitalism is a necessary part of rapid, non-centralized industrial development. what's necessary is instead free enterprise, which is usually overused by capitalists and libertarians to mean that its an inherent part of capitalism. but a group of workers deciding that they'll open their own steel mill over some rich bourgeois prick deciding the same has nothing to do with the capitalist system; capitalism only creates more rich bourgeois pricks and represses the workers into economic slavery.

The leftist agenda is giving the masses freedom and power in society instead of allowing the capitalists to hoard it all.

Yes. A long term eradication of the worldwide dictatorship of capital is as viable as it gets for the world's masses.

I couldn't care less, I support the campaign against him even if the woman is lying. He is an extreme reactionary and we should support all available means to prevent him from gaining power.

Exactly.

Capitalist society is controlled by money-hungry psychopaths, which makes it incredibly alienating and unforgiving. I contrast, communists want to replace private ownership of infrastructure, profit-seeking, wage slavery, police, and prisons with decentralized, democratically-controlled production, mutual aid, and restorative justice in order to build a society that will meet everyone's needs efficiently while respecting their individual autonomy. In short, economic self-interest, empathy for your fellow proles, and a chance to stop or even reverse some of the ecological damage caused by capitalism.

I think on a 30+ year timescale

of course

Wealth is literally made up on computers now.

Why do you think cognitive dissonance is a blessing?
Except I know zero lefties that live in areas where they don't rely on 10 strangers for their needs. Do you even know your needs from wants?

The idea your argument includes generalities, it's circular logic.
So you're pro-time wasting and interfering in others ways. How liberal of you. Maybe government will get around to taking care of you when your friends stop getting in the way. So much for your anti-disinformation ideals.

What are you even trying to say? Take your meds.

What? Is this some "all lefties are welfare queens" strawman? I legitimately have no idea what you are talking about.

Is this sentence missing a preposition somewhere? And there is no circular logic in what you've quoted.

No, I just don't care about the spectacle and retarded American celebrity-show politics.

How do you expect us to respond to this? You are not even criticizing any of our values or theories, you are simply stating that you dislike us personally based on negative experiences with random people we don't know about. You are shaming some vague caricature of a stereotype of liberals that don't even share our views.
Do you even believe in anything at all? Or is your concept of politics analogous to high school clique drama?

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The fact that you can ask this is proof of your cognitive dissonance in how you think you believe in something you don't practice.

I'm not going to teach someone American English to have a conversation with them. If you lack the foundation to hold this conversation, same applies.

Do you know what cognitive dissonance, generalities, and mincing words are?

Joke or not, you inferring I need meds is proof you're here to stir the pot and not open to the idea you could be wrong. "A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion." J

Any of your angry protestors do anything but 'earn money' and rely on a system to barter money for the things they need? I don't know any democrats that farm for a living or any that are self-sufficient. They might earn enough money to buy what they want or need today, but none that have gotten to a point where retirement looks comfortable.

It ends with a fucking generality, that's where your logic comes full circle! "I think we have the tech to fix our problems, but I'm not sure" is circular logic. Just because you minced the words 'if not all' and missed it doesn't mean we're all going to.

You need someone outside your nonsense to point it out.

Please read the post above you. What the hell are you going on about?