The Soviet Union Was Not Fucking Imperialist

Is anyone else sick and tired of hearing this meme on the Left? Invading Poland to keep fascists who themselves had already invaded and made up their mind to try and eviscerate every last trace of your country and its political economy/movement at bay and then supporting Socialist, Communist, and Progressive organizations and parties which ALREADY EXISTED and often were ALREADY GAINING STEAM among the working class (if not already in charge such as in China, DPRK, Cuba, some of the Middle East etc) as a bulwark against Western capitalists (AKA actual imperialists) all the while respecting the various nuances in the nations different approaches to building socialism or approaching it, insofar as it wasn't a mask for fascism, is not fucking imperialism.
Stalin supported the creation of Israel AT FIRST because there was a Leftist element to the Zionist movement and at the time the USA was beginning to position itself for its imperialist domination of the region. Much like Poland the USSR at first supported the creation of Israel so that it might halt imperialism not so it could expand its (nonexistant) "Soviet empire" throughout the mid-east or whatever other shit people say

The point here is that there is a fundamental difference in establishing de facto control over a regions wealth and/or resources by means of economic or literal invasion and occupation of said region and aiding progressive elements in the region in aiding the workers (or whoever was the most exploited class at the time in the specific region) in taking control of it and then trading or whatever else with them due to mutual affection.

The irony in all of this is that when people who aren't just standard liberals use this line, they are usually either Trots or Leftists sympathetic to Trotsky who, if he had taken charge, more than likely would have led the USSR down a road much more like what they posit "Soviet Imperialism" to be.

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Other urls found in this thread:

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221064/Oppressive-grey-No-growing-communism-happiest-time-life.html
pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/
theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/12/czech-communists-return-to-government-as-power-brokers
politico.eu/article/milos-zeman-skips-prague-spring-commemoration/
jobspin.cz/2016/07/communist-nostalgia-in-the-czech-republic/
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Fuck off, this isn't true in the slightest. The only people who claim 'soviet imperialism' are maotists, hoxhaists, socdem libs and other associated ultra-leftist currents. Trotsky and trotskyists have always opposed the notion that 'socialist imperialism' is a thing and Trotsky himself subjected to ruthless critique the german 'leninists' who argued the USSR was engaging in imperialism. I swear 90% of people who screech about how awful and anti-soviet trotsky and trotskyism is do so while unknowingly paraphrasing trotsky.

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Yes, Soviets build schools and hospitals in central Asia, and supported anti colonial revolutions in Africa,Asia and Latin America.

Yes user, when you defend your country from US-backed fascists attempting to takeover it literally is the opposite of imperialism, I'm glad you understand how it works

imperialism is when the military does stuff
the more military does stuff, the more imperialist it is.

While autistic and unnecessary loud, it was for the best.

P.S.
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221064/Oppressive-grey-No-growing-communism-happiest-time-life.html

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/

theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/12/czech-communists-return-to-government-as-power-brokers

politico.eu/article/milos-zeman-skips-prague-spring-commemoration/

jobspin.cz/2016/07/communist-nostalgia-in-the-czech-republic/

Jan Čulík, an independent Czech journalist and academic, explains that while he was teaching a seminar on Czech dissident literature of the 1970s to a class of some twenty 23-year-old students at Ostrava University, Czech Republic, he had them to prepare presentations on what life was like in Czechoslovakia in the 1970s. „Go and ask your parents,“ he said.

The students did not want to do so. They said that:

Their parents refuse to talk to them about what life was like under communism,
All of them without exception are of the opinion that life under communism was much better than now.

jobspin.cz/2016/07/communist-nostalgia-in-the-czech-republic/

Having said that reforms and improvements should have been done to avoid Prague Spring. Still, if I recall correctly Ted offensive was done same year Prague Spring took place, so since good guys were wining in Vietnam, obviously Soviets were quite on the edge of their seats.

Depends
If you go with
"Imperialism is the higher stage of capitalism"
Then no
But if we go with the more normie
"Its when a state intervenes and oppreses another state " the yes
Sam harries tier "islam is mean so imperialism is good"
The fact that iran is islamic state does not mean USA should invade it

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Name one time the Soviet union actually did this
Wew lad

*under communist rule

This is a liberal idea and is wrong. A socialist state has the right to invade and liberate any non-socialist state. All capitalist states are fiefdoms of the bourg and are much more like prisons than governments.

but the hungarian revolution was anti-Khrushchev, not anti-communist.

...

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If that was true, "revolutionaries" wouldn't be hunting down and killing those who fought alongside Bolsheviks in 1918. Moreover, workers would've supported them. However, they didn't. Moreover, students and kids were used as cannon fodder - which has never been hallmark of Communist revolution.

the revolution was first and foremost an opposition to the USSR's government policies; not the fact that they were communist. Are you forgetting the fact that Imre Nagy himself identified as communist?

and what are you citing as your source for all these "facts"?

it was imperialism by definition because the only reason Khrushchev invaded was because they threatened to leave the Warsaw pact. or is using military for economic gain not imperialism?

Nope, nor was economic gain Khruschev's main concern

his main concern was undoing everything Stalin had done to put the USSR on the course of becoming another generic neoliberal state (which it did).

The Social Democratic Party in Nagy’s government were old school socdems, ie reformist anti-capitalists. They specifically said they wanted to maintain the planned economy, as did all the other parties in Nagy’s government, as did nearly every organized body of the uprising (the workers councils). The only evidence of a real threat of counterrevolution was from random, sporadic acts of reactionary violence. While these were horrific, they never took on an organized character, never had a political program or real leadership. The real revolution was represented by the workers councils who supported maintaining socialism, they just wanted neutrality and greater democratization.

you sir need to improve on your grammar.
did he undo stalin's actions, which were focused on making ussr neoliberal, or undo stalin's actions, so that he could make ussr neoliberal?

They didn’t. Many of the leaders were veterans of the Hungarian Soviet Republic or the International Brigades. Others like Pal Maléter and Sandor Kopasci were former anti-fascist partisans. Some were even Holocaust survivors like Robert Fisch.
They did, the formed worker’s councils just like the workers of Russia did in 1917.

I think my position in this argument makes the answer to your question clear

Tbh the reparations imposed on the former Axis powers in Eastern Europe was pretty imperialistic. Its ridiculous to demand that ordinary proles pay the price for what their fascist governments did without their consent. Also even if the USSR wasn't imperialist by Lenin's definition, it definitely displayed rampant great power chauvinism.

afghanistan?

Legitimate national security concerns, the Mujahideen literally launched raids across the border into the USSR. Plus they were invited by the local government which had come to power without Soviet help.

It wasn't economic imperialism, but it was still imperialism.

Of course.

Names please.

I'll start with Sandor Sziklai: veteran of Hungarian Soviet Republic, International Brigades (fought both in Soviet Russia and in Spain), and even Soviet Army (in 1943-45). In 1956 he was director of museum. Until he spontaneously died.

Pal Maléter - literally fought for Fascists until he got captured by Soviets. Only then did he (!suddenly!) become a Communist.
Sándor Kopácsi - barely a year as a guerilla in 1944.

I'm guessing, the martyr was blessed by the spirit of Marx himself.

Oh, I'm not contesting that. It's the supposed support of the rebels that is very doubtful.

Also how was it "arbitrary"

nice going libs you really understand history huh

I can't think of any off the top of my head but Kopasci names several in his book "In the Name of the Working Class." I'll try to find a pdf.
He also was quoted as saying "We have fought and some of us have died in the cause of an independent, socialist Hungary… The purpose of this meeting is to lay the foundations of a new armed force in our country. This force is born of the insurrection, but we must ensure that reactionary elements, wanting to establish the old prewar regime, don't worm their way into it. That regime, fortunately, is dead. and there will never be capitalists or landowners in Hungary again." during a meeting of worker's delegates.
And before that he was a labour activist from a family of labour activists.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that the rebels didn't support the workers councils?

(National) Socialist? You can call pretty much anything Socialist, as long as you don't have to elaborate. I.e. words hardly prove anything.

It is off-topic, but I must point out that this very same idea was used by Khrushchev to push through his revisionist ideas that ended up destroying Soviet Union.

So, same as Mussolini?

I'm saying that workers didn't support rebels. Repeatedly.

The real redpill is that even CAPITALIST, post soviet Russia hasn't engaged in any imperialist wars. We had this argument in another thread and I literally disproved every single Russian military engagement for being imperialist.

Well, it's not like it wouldn't - given chance.

Imperialism is not just invasion
Russia uses Central Asia as essentially a giant strip mine and supports local tinhorns and despots to prop itself up
It also importants Central Asians as slave labor to renew its reserve labor pool

Not sure this makes sense. A anti-imperialist country would prevent anyone from a poorer region from immigrating?

The state doesn't do this, companies do. It works the same as Americans hiring mexicans while paying them near nothing. Most of that "slave labor" are hired illegally. I had this exact argument in that other thread.

not him, but you're saying the workers formed councils fighting for the status quo?

Well it’s kind of hard to prove yourself through actions while the Soviets are crushing your country.
So swearing to never let capitalism return is revisionism now?
Except Kopasci was an anti fascist fighter, not the leader of a fascist state. You’re grasping at straws and you know it.
Then why did they form worker’s councils which explicitly endorsed Nagy’s government? Face it, your position is based entirely on speculation and ahistorical bullshit. Your entire argument boils down to saying that Nagy would have restored capitalism without a single shred of evidence.

a "worker's state" wouldn't exploit foreign labor, it would give them equal working conditions and equal pay

The US defended its country from Islamic fascists by invading the middle east just like how Russia invaded Poland I guess LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLO

t. butthurt pole

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