How do tankies justify arresting soviet scientists?

Thanks user, but this one sums it up better:

You don't. Lysenkoism unironically was a mistake.

It was a mistake but additional context is that a lot of Western biologists at the time were trying to come up with theories to assert that poor people were genetically destined to be subservient to the titans of industry and justifying eugenics and shit like that. So that's one reason why the Soviets went for Lysenkoism. But Western biology was right about a lot of stuff too.

We dont have to justify this. Revolutions will ALWAYS do wrong. It is impossible to avoid. Even a """democratic""", or even a democratic decision still harms people terribly. Nothing can be done, and the idea that people who admire the USSR have to justify every mistake is absolutely laughable.
The USSR was a great success by every measure. They overthrew the Tsardom. They gained more rights than they had ever had. They gained more food than they ever had. They successfuly resisted foreign invasion from U.S. and Co. and the Nazis. There is literally no telling how much bloodshed was avoided by this. It is darkest timeline, doom and gloom porno levels of bad. I mean, just in World War 2 alone the USSR justifies itself.
The country UNDENIABLY had issues. Cockshott and Parenti both raise interesting, reasonable questions and criticisms about the Soviet model. (I highly recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds. Seriously, go on libgen right now and get it, no excuses.) But, that doesnt mean the USSR needs to be justified.
Didnt they arrest tons of NKVD members because of things like this?

Teach the Controversy(TM)

Lysenkoism is actually kinda right. Just he went kinda tard and thought growing corn in Siberia would work like Mao killing Sparrows.

Damage has been done though, now Zig Forumstards will say you believe in Lysenkoism or Creationism if you don't think Blacks are beyond redemption.

Look into epigenetics, epigenetics demonstrates the presence of environmentally-induced gene expression that may persist for several generations; however, the genome (DNA) is unaltered.

As usual, Stalin Did Nothing Wrong.

Forgot to change shit-posting flag.

The revolutionary state must protect itself. In the process there are innocents that get caught in the crossfire. There are loyal and ardent communists who are arrested and killed. Did this open the way up to revisionism and dogmatism in the USSR? Yes it did. But material conditions of the times meant that the logical function of state operated exactly how states do by defending itself. Do not put all responsibility on the NKVD, who I personally view as the greatest invention of the Russian Revolution. There will be terror as we all know, but terror without vision, without restraint is simply brutality that serves no purpose. The NKVD changed that. Its ideological foundation lacks the sadism of the internal security forces of their bourgeois counterparts. This might not be the case individually (Beria and such but even then there are nuances to that), but symbolically so it still applies. These situations that occur can be avoided by simply not letting the situation degrade to such a level in the class struggle where socialists are forced once again to be boxed in, cut from the world, and resort to means where the dilineation between comrade and foe is too blurred to see.

Attached: NKVD.png (424x553, 110.76K)

Most don't. Most legit ☭TANKIE☭s are very well read and knowledgeable of failures of Marxist-Leninist states. A lot of authors like Michael Parenti or Paul Cockshott have written a lot about success and failures of M-L states.

Attached: MARX.png (1283x160, 14.05K)

inb4 grover furr fags come in and cry khrushchevite.

The people mentioned by OP were not some pre-revolutionary bourgeois academics, Korolev was a child when the revolution happened, most victims of the purges grew up in the USSR so trying to make it out as if they were actually bourgeois liberal reactionaries is going to require some actual proof, not strawmanning OP as 'academics can do no wrong and should be immune from revolutionary justice'.

< here is my Cold War propaganda, please accept it as complete truth without questioning anything or demanding evidence
Wonderful idea.

This thread does not deserve quality replies.

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If they created a society capable of bringing about Communism then how were they morally wrong? If gulaging everyone as a pyscolgical tool and just shooting the rest was the alternative?

I'm not making a moral argument.

All I'm saying is that some of the assertions of Lysenkoism were not true

Yeah, totally for NO REASON WHATSOEVER, it's not like there were numerous cases of Industrial sabotage from 1922 onwards, or that foreign countries were trying to spy on soviet industrial production and infilitrated the bureaus.
1) These measures prevented a lot of issues in the USSR, for example the Germans had no idea that T-34 existed and were basically unaware of the KV-1 BECAUSE the bureaus were all put on house arrest.
2) As I mentioned in 1, the majority of these people were put on house arrest and lived in places that were better than civilian housing. Even Solzhenitsyn stated as much in his own memoirs, when he lied about being a nuclear scientist and was transferred.
Name one technology that was completely lost because of this, you can't. In fact it was precisely because of this that many technologies were created.
That is literally horseshit, the soviets numerous successes prior make that statement dubious at best
Korolev's wounds were never even close to fatal and had nothing to do with his death. The worst of his problems from the Gulag was the teeth he lost during his 4 months of prison caused by nutrient deficiency, this was during the Yezhovschina, and he was immediately pardoned and brought back the moment Beria found out and reported it to Stalin.
give it a rest porky
Hardly jail as said before and the Bomber was not the BEST of the USSR, there were others that fulfilled their roles just as well. Not to mention that you contradict yourself, implying that a good result (the bomber) came from these imprisonments.

The only thing one can criticize for it is Lysenkoism, and even Stalin was critical of that, and it had little to do with imprisonment, or with technology considering Lysenko was a geneticist.

Ah yes, because the only way to make a project secret is to put its engineers in prison.

The Americans managed just fine with keeping the SR-71 and nuclear bomb secret without it.

2) As I mentioned in 1, the majority of these people were put on house arrest and lived in places that were better than civilian housing. Even Solzhenitsyn stated as much in his own memoirs, when he lied about being a nuclear scientist and was transferred.

If Korolev were alive the N1 rocket could've been a success because without him, the design bureau became a shitshow with retarded bureaucrats pushing dumb engineering ideas.

Proof? Even soviet medical reports say that he died from a deformed windpipe which prevented surgeons from putting a respirator in it.

Which ones? The pe-2 was becoming obsolete and underpowered. The same for the Il-4.

I meant DESPITE those imprisonments.

Fair enough, but this is still imprisonment.

Also, the first automatic grenade launcher in history was designed by the soviet engineer Yakov Taubin in 1935. His research was not only discontinued, but Taubin himself was executed on completely ridiculous charges of hoarding unfinished weapons from his design project. Even if this charge was true and not a cover for (the incompetent retard) Grigoriy Kulik to kill him because of rivalry, how is keeping some unfinished weapons that you were ordered to start designing sabotage and ethically worthy of execution?

youtube.com/watch?v=wwUKVLAp1O8

Stalin however appointed retarded generals like Budyonniy, Voroshilov and Kulik who were incompetent in every military operation which they presided over(after the civil war), but he didnt execute them but instead coddled them.

This was extreme hypocrisy on his part

Secret designs are to be kept in the bureau, and cannot leave them so long as they are being designed. They are designated government secrets and it is treason to take them outside of the grounds. The reasonfor this is to prevent them from selling the plans or getting them stolen by foreign agents. This happened several times before and a few times after when the government tried being lenient.

Yeah at this point I know you're a troll, Budyonniy was no fool and had served in the military for decades long before Stalin became General Secretary. He was
More slander from the Gorbachev era
You are literally just pulling this off of wikipedia. Stop reading Montefiore. tho who am I kidding, a rad lib who posts 3 duplicate threads and shit-posts discount propaganda is never going to be sincere enough to actually research what he's talking about

Attached: валить.jpg (768x978, 137.94K)

*He was not only successful in many operations in WW2 and prior, but was well known for his knowledge in the use of Cavalry. The claims you make come directly from English wikipedia and are not corroborated by any objective sources.

If you're going to attack incompetent generals, stop blaming Stalin for them. And cherry picking that you are doing ignores the vast number of competent people under Stalin. Kulik was the only incompetent one among the three you picked and your argument is nonexistant.

"Communism under Stalin has produced the most valiant fighting army in Europe. Communism under Stalin has provided us with examples of patriotism equal to the finest annals of history. Communism under Stalin has won the applause and admiration of all the Western nations. Communism under Stalin has produced the best generals in this war. I was always impressed by Lincoln's answer when Grant was charged with taking too much drink.Persecution of Christianity? Not so. There is no religious persecution. The church doors are open. And there is complete freedom to practice religion, just as there is complete freedom to reject it. Racial persecution? Not at all. Jews live like other men. There are many races in the Soviet Union and not even a color bar. Political purges? Of course. But it is now clear that the men who were shot down would have betrayed Russia to her German enemy."
- Opportunity to Win War in 1942; A SECOND FRONT IN EUROPE TO AID RUSSIA By LORD BEAVERBROOK, Britain's Lease-Lend Coordinator in Washington, Delivered before the Bureau of Advertising of the American Newspaper Publishers Association, April 23, 1942
ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1942/1942-04-23b.html

"Havoc and ruin had been around him all of his days, either impending on himself or dealt by him to others. Certainly in Molotov the Soviet machine had found a capable and in many ways characteristic representative — always the faithful Party man and Communist disciple. How glad I am at the end of my life not to have had to endure the stresses which he has suffered; better to never have been born. In the conduct of foreign affairs, Mazarin, Talleyrand, Metternich, would welcome him to their company, if there be another world to which Bolsheviks allow themselves to go."
Winston Churchill, in The Second World War, Vol. I : The Gathering Storm (1948), Book I, Ch. 20 : The Soviet Enigma, p. 331

Molotov has a fine forehead, and looks and acts like a French professor of medicine — orderly, precise, pedantic. His importance is sometimes not appreciated; he is by no means a mere figurehead, but a man of first-rate intelligence and influence…"
John Gunther, in Inside Europe: Again Completely Revised (1938), p. 483

"Voroshilov was a striking figure, with a great deal of influence among the workers, so that the degree of influence of the committee on the workers and its success as regards recruitment depended primarily on him." - Leopold H. Haimson quoted in:

books.google.com/books?id=tj933M3Lrq4C&pg=PA350&lpg=PA350&dq=Voroshilov was a striking figure, with a great deal of influence among the workers, so that the degree of influence of the committee on the workers and its success as regards recruitment depended primarily on him&source=bl&ots=9_UC6DxgZs&sig=NRFR_u0lWGoCvFgCR5xVdcuLcDE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqoO3FsPfbAhUr6oMKHT3vCxYQ6AEIMzAC#v=onepage&q=Voroshilov was a striking figure, with a great deal of influence among the workers, so that the degree of influence of the committee on the workers and its success as regards recruitment depended primarily on him&f=false

"On that memorable evening, which left an indelible impression on me, JV Stalin more than once in the course of the report and in the process of discussing it also explained to us how best to use the combat characteristics of infantry, tanks and aircraft in the upcoming summer operations of the Red Army. ( …) I came back from the Kremlin completely in the grip of new impressions. I realized that not only an outstanding political figure of our time, but also a commander well trained in matters of military theory and practice are at the head of our Armed Forces.
During the discussion of the proposals of the commanders, the Supreme was laconic. He listened more, occasionally asked short, precisely worded questions. He had an ideal memory for numbers, surnames, names of settlements, apt expressions. Stalin was very well assembled" (Baraganyn I. Kh. So we went to victory. M., Voenizdat, 1977, pp. 59, 61, 300).

Ah yes, the guy who thought tanks would never replace horses was "no fool"

Ok then. What are your sources that say that Kulik and Voroshilov was competent? They were responsible for the large losses in the Winter War because of dumb tactics like charging with tanks in a forest and not using winter camouflage.

Shit internet connection and captcha

*Bagramyan (corrected)

Im reading these sources, but none of the quotes you showed me disprove that Voroshilov or Budyonniy werent shitty military commanders for the WW2 battlefield.

In Polikarpov's case it seems like a bad mistake. The thing you have to realize is is that during the Five Year Plan there was a shit ton of corruption and sabotage, it actually went on. In my Soviet history class, my professor mentioned an example of local party leaders using materials and machinery meant to build factories and worker housing to build themselves fancy houses. Sabotage and wrecking was a serious thing, and it certainly wasn't Stalin being paranoid. It was a legitimate issue that needed to be taken care of. It seems however in Polikarpov's case that it was a shitty job done by the OGPU. In Tupolev's case, he was arrested during Yezhovshchina which is still a very controversial subject. Nikolai Yezhov, head of the NKVD from 1936-1938 was a psycho who arrested and executed people without trial. Stalin eventually realized what was going on and purged him. Lavrentiy Beria came in afterwards and started cleaning up the mess, freeing thousands of people falsely imprisoned by Yezhov. Grover Furr wrote a book on Yezhov and Yezhovshchina that I'm planning to read soon. So in short, it wasn't some organized campaign against science by Stalin, it was poor execution of necessary actions on the part of the internal police force.

The cannon and MG that Taubin was arrested for having werent secret and their development was discontinued due to being unsatisfactory. Using your logic, half of the UK's engineers should've been executed.

The US designed an automatic grenade launcher 30 years after the USSR and the soviets didnt develop it further even though the AG-2 was successful in military trials in the winter war. Let that sink in.

Sources?

Interesting. So it was Yezhov doing most of the damage.

Still engineering design bureaus weren't given lots of resources worth stealing for personal wealth, and there werent any deficiencies in progress or quality of their products to justify massive purges(unlike in the Russian capitalist MIC today).

No honey, 1 was posted a week ago, two were posted hours apart. Don't play the clever one here.
Citation needed wiki-fag.
Kulik WAS incompetent, but he was not coddled.
See
Wow you know jack shit about the Winter war.
1) Kulik was not the presiding commanding officer in the Winter War
2) Winter camoflage was used from the beginning, don't lie.
3) Not only were the tank assaults fine, but they also used them to tes
4) Attacks/Counter-Attacks almost inevitably have higher losses than defenses in combat regardless of what era (army wise)
5) The USSR was equipped with old tech and was only starting to modernize, thus the tanks like the T 35, BT-7 and T 27 were easily beaten by modern anti-tank defenses of the Finns, with the majority of tank successes going the T 28. This also applied to aircraft, the bombers were too light and too old to carry meaningful loads and carry out precision hits.
6) Mannerheim was a former White army officer who furthermore had created the Mannerheim line, which was many kilometers deep and was formidable in terms of defences. Since Finland's border was so small, this defensive line easily covered the entire front.

Attached: wikipedia - instead of a brain.jpg (623x815, 76.25K)

After being a Swedish province for around 600 years, Finland was ceded to the Russian Tsar as a Grand Duchy in 1808. After the Russian Revolution of November 1917, Finland declared its independence on 6 December 1917, and this was recognized by Soviet Russia on 2 January 1918. Thus it was the USSR which allowed the then only formed Finland to even exist. After the Finnish revolution of 1918 had been crushed by a ‘white’ army under Baron Carl Mannerheim, with the help of German forces, the new right-wing Finnish government was formed and actively supported the armies of intervention which were attacking the young Soviet Union. Later it would seek to keep up these good relations with Germany when the nazis took power, as well as maintain more secretive support from Great Britain.
“During the Russian Civil War, the new Finnish government actively supported the Western nations in their attempt to destroy the Bolshevik regime. On occasion, they even allowed anti-Bolshevik military operations to be mounted from their territory”.
(A. Read & D. Fisher: ‘The Deadly Embrace: Hitler, Stalin and the Nazi-Soviet Pact: 1939-1941′; London; 195P’; p. 372-74) Also it would behoove you to know that The Deadly Embrace is an anti-soviet book.

“If we look at the map, we shall find that the best approach to Petrograd is from the Baltic, and that the shortest and easiest route is through Finland, whose frontiers are only about 30 miles distant from the Russian capital. Finland is the key to Petrograd and Petrograd is the key to Moscow”.
(‘Times’, 17 April 1919; p. 14).

On 14 October 1920 the Soviet government signed with Finland the Treaty of Tartu, who’s unfair terms were accepted due to sheer weakness at the time.

“The Treaty of Tartu was most unsatisfactory from the Soviets’ point of view, but they were in no position to resist Finnish demands. Two of its most signifciant provisions were the legalising of the Finnish seizure of the town and district of Petsamo, with its valuable nickel deposits, . . . and the redrawing of the Russo-Finnish border further down the Karelian Isthmus to a mere 18 miles from Petrograd”.
(A. Read & D. Fisher: ibid,; p. 374).

The threat of war and the use of Finland as a base for Western anti-soviet military moves was already founded on prior experience and the possibility of a repetition of this was already feared in the late 20s.

“Comrades, little Finland is of considerable importance in the war preparations of the imperialists against the Soviet Union. Its frontier is only 40 kilometres distant from Leningrad. .. . ..
Finland’s orientation upon England is well known. Considerable sums of British capital are invested in Finland. England has taken a direct part in the reorganisation of Finland’s army and navy. . . .
A vicious (anti-Soviet — Ed.) press campaign goes on uninterruptedly”.
(Y.F. Sirola: Speech in Discussion on the War Danger, 6th Congress of Communist International, in: ‘International Press Correspondence’, Volume 8, No. 61 (11 September 1928); p. 1,081).

However the actual catalyst was the Soviet-Finnish 1939 negotiations, which, due to the above mentioned influence resulted in the Finns refusing the soviet offer, and pushing the desperate soviet government into taking matters into its own hands.

Ironically the initial 3 meetings resulted in what the USSR sought AND had the Finns well off as well (gaining more land-mass than they were trading to the USSR), but after that the Finns suddenly turned face and cut the whole thing off, German intelligence, as according to Ribbentrop reported the possible pressure of Great Britain on this, ( It is well known that Great Britain and France were more than interested in spoiling things for the soviet union, as demonstrated by the Golden Embargo of 1932, when, during a time of drought and crop failure, they blocked all soviet exports except wheat and timber and refused soviet gold as payment in trades, thus exacerbating the hard conditions in the USSR and causing the devastation of the famine of 1932.)
To quote an excerpt of Ribbentrop’s,
“According to intelligence received, England was responsible for the failure of the Russo-Finnish negotiations last November”.
J. Sontag & J. S. Beddle (Eds.): ‘Nazi-Soviet Relations’; Washington; 1948; p. 130).

The Winter War was not a loss as suggested because its objective was not to capture Finland but to avert a potential British/French assault that planned on using Finnish forces with former White Army forces to attack the USSR. This was to be Operation Pike, but it was cancelled after the USSR attacked, disrupting preparations, and when Mannerheim decided to go his own way, and built up massive border defenses. These defenses were the reason why the Red Army was mired for so long, as soon as it was broken, the Soviets offered peace that would have to be responded to in 24 hours or the soviets would continue the invasion, the Mannerheim Line being surpassed. The peace was taken adn Finland and the USSR went back to normal.

Stop reddit spacing
It's called industrial espionage
False, even if designs are discontinued there is a certain amount of time before they can remove the seal of secrecy on them. That is standard procedure. That's why we don't have specs on planes like the XF-23 in the public sphere, even though it was deemed unsatisfactory.
Excuse me? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_Russian_small_arms_and_light_weapons#Automatic_Grenade_Launchers
?

so you claim. Seriously stop reading english wiki articles and modern Russian propaganda videos, they literally omit massive amounts of stuff or make things up.

Things were NOT good and dandy prior to the purges:
espressostalinist.com/the-real-stalin-series/yezhovshchina/

espressostalinist.com/the-real-stalin-series/military-purges/

Lastly the AG-2 was not accepted because of
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/50-мм_ротные_миномёты_образца_1938_и_1940_годов
Because they fulfilled the same basic combat roles.

Also your own source video states that the Grenade was unreliable and the grenade launcher far too heavy and complex in production.
start from minute 1:33

He was never executed, unlike some soviet engineers and Equally/More Competent generals like Blyukher.

I posted this thread even tho it said it didnt get posted, so didnt know it got posted so I decided posting again today, and shitty internet connection made me double post.

Now your repeating retarded Russophobic propaganda about soviet technological inferiority of the 30s. Soviet tanks were inferior compared to what? Japanese tankettes? Italian riveted monstrosities? The shitty little panzers? French tanks with tiny 37mm plinkers? British crusader and vickers tanks with worse guns, mobility and armor than the BT-7 and T-26?

No they werent because the finnsih knowledge of the terrain and lack of opportunity for maneuver warfare made them just large targets.

It was literally a bunch of earthen trenches and wooden bunkers, with very little concrete and artillery emplacements. The only challenging part was the forested terrain.
Mannerheim wasnt some genius, just minorly competent.

mentioning bombers shows that you're uneducated about the winter war. The bad weather prevented frontline aviation from having a role on the battlefield.

Are you fucking kidding me? The finnish artillery was some of the worst in europe and they had some shitty boys anti-tank rifles at most.

The only way for the Soviets to have broken through the line without massive casaulties was:
1)combined arms operations
2)Competent artillery bombardment
Voroshilov failed at the first and Kulik failed at the second.

Yes, it's a very complicated issue that's still under review by historians. I'm doing a research paper for my Soviet history class on it and I intend to get a better understanding of the period. Basically you have to realize that the time period was very messy and not pretty. Stalin had very little time to get the USSR on par with its enemies in terms of industry and technology and it's astounding what he was able to do in such little time. There were saboteurs and traitors everywhere no matter how much Western "historians" like to pretend it was some paranoid delusion of Stalin. Trotskyists, Right Oppositionist and even fascists were abound. Innocent people were unfortunately punished during this time, but you can't blame Stalin personally for every death. Every country has wrongfully executed people, yet we don't blame the heads of state for it, we blame the poor police work. Take everything you read about the USSR, especially pertaining to the Stalin period, with a cube of salt, to quote my professor.

Show me a single CONFIRMED case of a prominent soviet engineer giving secret information to western spies in the 1930s.
The second Soviet AGL was the AGS-17. It was designed in the 1960s, 30 years after the AG-2.

Only because Kulik forced them to be adopted. Combat experience showed them to be quite worthless, unlike the AG-2.

Doesnt mean that it couldn't have been improved. By your logic, the AK-47 should never have entered service because its first versions were unreliable.

American and British engineers still possessed prototypes of their designs privately and that didnt allow Nazi Germany or the USSR to steal them. What the USSR did to taubin would be equivalent to the British government executing Supermarine, Blackburn etc. or the US executing John Browning for possessing pistols he stopped developing.

I am also baffled by this.

Arrested in 1947, he remained in prison until 1950, when he was condemned to death and executed for treason
HAHAHAHAHAHA
No I'm not. The T-35 was outdated in 1939 and the BT-7 and T-27 were outdated in 1939 as well, that was why the KV-1 and the T-34 were designed. The most favored tank of the Winter war was the T-28 due to its balance of armament and armor.
The fucking anti-tank guns used by the Finns you dolt.
Well how would YOU deploy tanks smart ass? The soviets were on the offensive, thereofre their tanks were used offensively following artillery barrages. There is literally nothing unsound about this. It wasn't tank v tank warfare, but tank v trenches/pillboxes
Fucking what?!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannerheim_Line
Lahti anti tank gun ring a bell? or the 13.9mm machine guns?
winterwar.com/forces/FinArmy/FINartiller.htm#Comments
winterwar.com/Weapons/FinAT/FINantitank2.htm
The 37mm AT gun easily penetrated the light tanks and forced the T-28 to use applique armor to prevent spalling.
false on both accounts. Neither failed in doing so. The Artillery bombardment was more than competent as for combined arms… jesus christ just stop talking.
Also the Finns recieved foreign aid and plenty
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Иностранная_военная_помощь_Финляндии_в_cоветско-финской_войне_(1939-1940)

espressostalinist.com/2011/10/08/the-communist-league-the-soviet-finnish-war/

Outdated compared to which foreign analogues?

1.Never put tanks in columns on uncaptured terrain
2. Keep tanks away from confirmed AT emplacements
3. Use infantry recon to cofirm AT emplacements
4. always keep tanks behind the infantry
5. Use infantry recon teams to protect the flanks from ski troops.
6. Use small storm trooper teams to capture Finnish trenches

Clearly the Soviet commanders were incompetent because they let the Finns do this to them
youtube.com/watch?v=yHrndb0oZEc

your own wikipedia link says that the Mannerheim line was poorly fortified

Your professor seems suprisingly unbiased. Are you in a Russian uni by any chance?

The artillery barrages were incompetent because they failed to weaken the Mannerheim line.

Because the West was giving their shit away to the Nazis on a platter.
The USSR actually got PLENTY of western designs through their own industrial espionage and shell companies, such as the Christie Tank.
Except they were private designers. Not to mention that their designs were largely never secret in the first place.

Off the top my head? I can't haven't delved into this stuff in years.
There is NO evidence, not to mention that fact that those mortars were highly effective.

Except that the design was made in 1939 and was deemed un-needed. nebulous claims of improvement show a complete lack of understanding of design. the design itself was faulty. The AK's design was not, it had teething issues that were NORMAL for its development and were ironed out through stamped pressing. The AG-2' issues were because of the design itself. One would have to fundementally remake it to alleviate the issues, which would be a waste of time considering that it served the exact same purpose as a simpler and more reliable mortar.
yes when it was tactically needed and no later than the Americans.

Lastly Taubin was executed in 1941, during the war. Not during peace time.

compared to the battle field. They were easy pickings for anti-tank guns and even anti-tank rifles. In 1941, just 2 years later, they were slaughtered by Panzer IVs.

HAHAHAHA
Easier said than done
REALLY? because Recon is 100% infallable
Uhhh no, that's not how it works. This isn't urban fucking warfare.
They did
They did.

Why am I not surprised that armchair tacticians cite other arm-chair tacticians.
I truly regret that my old computer died because this retarded conversation is really pissing me off. I've wrote and re-wrote massive essays on this subject from every fucking angle debunking the whole "muh incompetent sovjets" shit and then my hard drive has to go up in figurative flames.

Whatever. You can say what you like, point of the matter is, your literally basing your entire argument on Western sources only. Western sources that have every reason to belittle the soviets.

No, I'm American. My professor is Russian though so he doesn't just teach the same Robert Conquest bullshit.

Yet this is exactly what happened at the battle of Raate road
Wehrmacht seemed to do it just fine

Its forest warfare so its pretty damn close due to lower ranges and much better concealment for infantry

Then how did the Soviets lose not 2, not 4, but 5 times more men?

Also, in battles like Summa and Taipale Soviet tanks there was very little to no recon or infantry support for tanks used.

This is an ad hominem and you dont disprove his claims

You justified Stalin starting the winter war, and I agree with you on that part. However you never proved that the Soviets acted competently during the Winter war combat.

Its strange how the bourgeois administration hasn't fired him. Also are there lots of lolberts and libtards that start arguments with him?

Not even the most tanker of ☭TANKIE☭s supports it

I wouldn't bother if I was you, it is an intensely and consistently poor piece of academic inquiry. I don't mean this from a condescending "it has to fit these standards" point-of-view, the book (like almost all of his regarding the era) is of dubious quality and cannot be trusted as to its veracity.

...

Here's a better question: why are you assuming he was innocent of not aiding the Russian Fascist Party? Hm? Because the US told you literally everyone who arrested during the purges did nothing wrong and anyone arrested and charged in a country they don't like automatically wasn't given a fair trial, whole in the US justice works perfectly and no-one is ever arrested for made up charges?

LOL

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Because there was no real evidence?

Mods please anchor this shit-post thread.

And yet you have no argument against it.

t. butthurt ☭TANKIE☭ who still worship god Stalin even though he was mean to some nerds

They were well behind by the time Korolev died. It was the government's stinginess with funding that lost them the race.

t. space autist

...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_9

I've already had the argument over Furr here and elsewhere a number of times. Each time goes the exact same way:

bump

no

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You are a malignance on this board, hang yourself.

Fuck off, nobody wants to hear your temper tantrum because “m-muh favowite guy is not bad”.

I know you are.

A single word response and an image is a temper tantrum… so standards have dropped that low eh?

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I don't actually, I am more than aware that Stalin was far from perfect and have criticized him before in discussions, HOWEVER, this thread is not an objective discussion of Stalin or his policies, it is an accusatory radical-liberal shitpost that should have been anchored a week ago when it was posted. This thread has brought nothing but conjecture and propaganda that boils down to

"Stalin is to blame for all unjust imprisonments"

Despite the fact that he did not have anything CLOSE to absolute power, and was one politician in a country that was 5 times the size of the USA, had a population of several hundred million people and was in an extremely precarious geo-political situation. He could not feasibly know of all injustices committed and moreover has been proven to be an intellectual who respected the rights of people through his own actions. Pic 2 is an example from one of my acquaintances.

Now shut up and anchor this shill thread.

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No they really weren't. Until Gorbachev times the USSR maintained either a lead or a parallel with the USA. The only thing they didn't do was put a man on the moon and even that was just about the only thing the USA got over the USSR. That's ignoring the fact that the USSR did almost all the other moon-related space feats before the USA and did a ton of other work without which we would still be aiming to put a man on Venus instead of Mars.

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It is the nature of Stalinists to be paranoid and to strike out at their friends and allies. They are a failed branch of socialism that should be cut from the tree and cast aside to allow for fresh healthy growth to happen.

bumplocking thread since its been thoroughly derailed.

Doesn't exist
An erroneous and false generalization
Stalinism does not exist, Marxist-Leninism is by far the most successful and most practical of socialist branches. Your metaphorical tripe is unwarranted.

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Thank you.

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Sounds like you have already cut it from the tree …

Stalinist is a branch of Marxism-Leninism that was purged from the USSR during the de-stalinization drive of the party lead by Khrushchev. It was also characterized by the 'rehabilitation' of many scientists held in the GULAG system as well as a general reduction of the size of the system and a significant improvement in its conditions.

britannica.com/event/de-Stalinization

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Stalinization

historyonthenet.com/de-stalinization

LOL
LOL
HAHAHAHAHA
Wrong, if you can't discern between a Cult of Personality and an actual separate socialist theory you don't know what you're talking about.
Yes and his actions are now condemned by most MLs because they were irrational, petulant, and filled with lies that only damaged the communist cause across the world.
Except that is a myth, rehabilitation began during the Stalin era after 1937 when Yezhov was put on trial and executed for miscarriage of justice.

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