I am curious as to what people on this board might think of the following statement by James Flynn. As you most likely are aware, Flynn is a prominent intelligence researcher, and also a proponent of the environmentalist hypothesis with respect to racial and ethnic Autism Level distribution gaps. Here is the statement:
There should be no academic sanctions against those who believe that were environments equalized, genetic differences between black and white Americans would mean that blacks have an Autism Level deficit. Whether the evidence eventually dictates a genetically caused deficit of nil or 5 or 10 or 20 Autism Level points is irrelevant. The hypothesis is intelligible and subject to scientific investigation. If that is so, you must have already investigated it if you are to know what is true or false. To prohibit others from investigation or publication of their results is to designate certain truths as the property of an elite to be forbidden to anyone else. It is to insulate them from whatever new evidence the scientific method may provide that would modify belief. A word to those who seek respectability by banning race/gene research: how much respectability would you get if your position were stated without equivocation? What if you were to openly say genetic equality between the races may or may not be true; and that is exactly why I forbid it to be investigated. Or: “I do not know if genetic equality is true and do not want anyone else to know."
This makes it sound like there is insufficient evidence to conclude that there is no genetic basis for race when in fact there is a littany of research that suggests it. I don't think that anybody seriously wants to ban research into race, but the truth is that historicaly racist people have utilized poor studies and psuedo-science to justify racism.
Charles Jackson
sage for stealth racecuck thread
Jaxson Moore
it's a question of ethics not a question of truth. it's counter-productive to stifle scientific research just because it's biased towards a certain opinion. what you two probably don't understand is that the academic world is highly regulated and centralized. if people draw fallacious conclusions from their research it most likely won't pass because of peer-review.
Luke Wilson
This. You can divide humans as broadly or finely as you like and find some correlation within those groups but if the groups are arbitrary then it's meaningless. Race "science" that uses racial categories from colonial pseudoscience is garbage. 90+% of human genetic diversity is in Africa, but these charlatans lump all those variations together while finely picking apart the differences between Europeans or east Asians.
kill yourself. no, seriously. the human race would benefit if people as willfully ignorant as yourself weren't allowed to the breath our air.
Ayden Phillips
You're naive as fuck. The quality of research on things like this can be pretty horrible. Science is subject to ideology just like anything else is.
Adam Miller
yes but dialectically speaking it advances much faster since people are much more discourages from being illogical
Gabriel Foster
Sorry, but I don't follow. Are you suggesting that shoddy research isn't published all the time, even in high impact journals? Peer-review, although arguably necessary for quality control, is certainly not sufficient. Most scientists have absolutely encountered peer-reviewed papers in their reading with severe methodological flaws that were nevertheless published.
Oliver Campbell
Don't care. Let them do their dumb research. What I'm really interested in is the influence of epigenetics on intelligence. How do the living conditions of your parents, grandparents, etc, influence your I.Q. score? People never note the possibility of black people actually turning out more intelligent than whites. Flynn just assumes that it must be a deficit. That's not very scientific, is it? Either way, we should always stress that this all doesn't matter. People should be treated equally despite statistical averages. What matters is the person itself, the unique capacities proper to them. Any society that doesn't follow that principle will be dystopian.
Oliver Allen
Anyone who seriously invests any time into Autism Level research is dumber than any people they want to label with a low Autism Level. At least they aren't wasting their time with retarded bullshit.
Juan Nguyen
Actually, Flynn is himself a proponent of the environmentalist hypothesis, and in fact a very famous one. He's not describing his own empiric predictions here but elaborating an ethical stance regarding what sort of research he feels ought to be permitted.
Julian Ortiz
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Hunter Gomez
Science is fucking riddled with people letting their ego and ideology get in the way of proper research. The "peers" doing peer review are human also and predisposed to seeing things a certain way. A lot of them have a personal stake in upholding the status quo because they've built their career and reputation on "established" scientific "facts" and don't want to have any of their (possibly ongoing) work undermined.
Jeremiah Price
Then it's even more damning.
Jayden Sanders
Why is Zig Forums so obsessed with "autism level"? Do they actually believe in this or is this just a meme?
Benjamin Bennett
yeah the sokal affair and the recent one with some social studies mag really showed the infallibility of peer review, buddy peer review is a fine mechanism but putting it on a pedestal is dumb as fuck
Benjamin Davis
no user, scientists are all robots with no personal attachments to anything other than DA TROOF when you get your doctor's degree they take you to a room and scoop out all the human stuff using that clockwork orange chair and voila, you're a SCIENTIST
Joseph Lopez
Considering most Zig Forumslacks are sub-100, I sincerely doubt it.
Landon Reed
I don't know what the other one you're talking about is.
Nicholas Evans
They genuinely believe in this. No doubt about it.
Jeremiah Murphy
Believe in what exactly? The hereditarian hypothesis for between population differences in mean Autism Level? The validity of Autism Level tests as a measurement of intelligence? The claim that Autism Level is a robust predictor of certain educational, socioeconomic and health outcomes? Could you be more specific?
Alexander Perez
Only about as genuinely as a fascist ever believes anything. Its an insincerely held belief, one which has a rhetorical/aesthetic function which goes one way and not one meant to be taken as truth.
Grayson King
Anything I.Q. related is retarded bullshit.
Parker Campbell
If you divide the proletariat, then you are the enemy of the proletariat. Question: Given the diverse ethnic groups in the USSR, what approach did the USSR have to 'racial differences'?
I think we must refrain from partaking in discourse that accentuates differences between so-called races.
Blake Scott
anyone caring about it is genuinely deficient.
Leo Ross
Intelligence testing is overabused by reactionary autists that want to be special snowflakes, but that does not make it inherently wrong. It is already common knowledge that a causal link between race and cognitive ability either doesn't exist, or is so hopelessly convoluted as to be of no practical meaning.
Levi Powell
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Lincoln Baker
I rather ban Zig Forums from writing that vitrol and nonsense like letting their wives get cucked by black men in a scientific paper. You know even if it wasn't full of lemarkian ideas and was a normal paper then Zig Forums would use that to advocate for Lamarckian ideas anyways because they can't read. Also Actually no, a differece in two groups doesn't say group a is greater than group b just that there is a difference. Whites could have a autism level deficit there was a difference or any other people included in the study. Another funny thing, Zig Forums would probably put leftists as a Nonwhite Jew and inadvertently bump up the nonwhite population in Autism Level.
Dylan Brown
Well… no shit. Flynn doesn't seem to understand that in politics, as opposed to academia, assumption of bad faith is the norm. The moral basis of censorship is that people are not rational enough for truth and evidence to be useful to them; it's a fucked up line of reasoning, but technically not an incoherent one.
It would be easier for him to point out that a link between race and intelligence does not need to be censored, because this information is not politically meaningful anyway, even to some reactionaries.
Lucas Martin
Everyone knows everyone in USSR was Jew except the ones funded by Soros to collapse it, those are super Aryans.
Cameron Butler
inb4 mods take this post seriously
Luke Ross
seethe more you monkey men there is more Autism Level in my dick hairs than there is in your entire ape bodies
Andrew Campbell
ussr had a de facto apartheid system via their internal passport system keeping the churkas and central Asiatics out of European Russia, it was great
Dylan Sanchez
because it's literally impossible nogs literally have a 20% smaller cranial capacity
Angel Barnes
He needs an /s, MSFD will ban him from the sub if he doesn't edit it.
Joseph Gomez
y must u b so h8ful
Elijah Watson
ask the poc that same question
Cooper Ward
this is called "projection"
Levi Brown
Except that isn't true. Genetic analysis finds 5 clusters that laymen would call races. That's plain as day. What you do with that information is up to you, but you don't get to ignore this unpleasant empirical fact.
Dominic Clark
based flynn hard enviormentalism is 2 large scale GWAS away from being debunked
Charles Kelly
Ah yes, my family wasn't allowed into Moscow State University since we were Buryat! Those degrees and all of the travel albums were faked by the Soviet authorities to trick foreigners ofc! You don't know what you're talking about and its okay to admit it
Levi Nguyen
This book is much more an account of the temporal relation to the distribution and development of different genetic backgrounds. It's nice to imagine that this is merely a block aggregation of different human sub-groups, but you'd be doing a grave disservice to the work done in expounding upon the development and population sciences. No one is stopping to contend that genetic differences by geographic location are not present, but the amalgamation of this into a discursive relation such as the way race is (for the racialists and the post-colonialists) is gravely misleading.
Jaxon Clark
was there or was there an internal passport system in the ussr or not? yes or no?
I don't care about your Mongol ancestors going to Moscow state, some negros even went to Harvard at the height of Jim Crow, it proves literally nothing
Christian Robinson
why do leftcucks love this word so much? Freudianism is thoroughly discredited pseudo science, move on already
Leo Hughes
The word "race" is loaded, but the core biological concept is basically valid. Making political inferences based on this is not as clear and I wouldn't endorse it. You don't have to reach the same conclusions the racists do with the evidence, even if you technically agree with their premises.
Jose Wilson
If you're referring to the mark with propiska, no. One could walk and record any change in a local bureau, and these were also the primary means of state identification - like carrying a drivers license or state ID card. I could get on a train and go to Vladivostok or catch a plane to one of the fraternal nations and fuck your aunt in front of her retarded husband. There was no commissar sitting at the gate to tell me where I could or could not go
Caleb Ramirez
in total agreement with you, as far as demographical science goes.
David Howard
It's now possible to estimate Autism Level with a correlation coefficient of 0.718 using MRI data. Thoughts?
if they don't delete this post outright they'll just strawman it as muh phrenology
there was a strict internal passport system in place all the way into the late Brezhnev years
Isaiah Myers
it's a philosophy not a science you retard. science itself is subclass of philosophy itself.
Brody Smith
but it's true, you fuckers literally project all the damn time. you tell yourselves that everyone else is as emotionally fragile and intellectually weak as yourselves but we're not. no matter how much you tell yourselves otherwise.
Ryan Rodriguez
Look whether you hold an egalitarian view on Race or hold a Racialist view on race neither of these contradict or are in opposition to what Marx's theories fundamentally are about Marx himself was a Racialist in most regards believed in the Inherent superiority of Northern Euros over southern Euro's (his "Lazy Mexicans" getting owned by Americans shit) and his belief that Blacks were incapable of achieving Socialism/Communism (Which obviously has been proven wrong)
Julian Perry
at least he was pro abolition of slavery
Jack Sanders
According to who? Race is too arbitrary and politically charged to be scientifically useful.
Are you retarded? Nothing about the internal passport system or Propiska kept those groups out. All it did was keep track of workers and citizens near major cities to ensure both safety and security as well as document residency. In public other forms of identification were admissible. It was not an apartheid system, as much as you would like to believe so. Unless you're saying any form identification is now a form of apartheid, which is even more retarded.
Hudson Cox
Humans. Orcs. That's it, really.
Aiden Kelly
Elves, gnomes, demonkin
Cameron King
can i be a construct race? i never wanna get tired working hard to make porky money
Adrian Smith
It's a relationship that exists, but it's not conclusively causal. Lurking variables or potential mediator have never been ruled out.
Liam Hall
Mainstream research begs to differ.
Jace Allen
Honestly, if the I.Q. thing was btfo tomorrow, I doubt their opinions would change. The only people who are actually swayed by that argument are liberal centrist idiots like Sargon-my-balls.
Daniel Morgan
Please stop inventing mythological races. We're talking about real life here.
Jace Adams
can't take a joke mate
Cooper Allen
Am I the only one who sees the cosmic irony in this brainlet zoomer Nazi call his theories bogus. Despite burning his books, the Nazis of yesteryear actually collaborated with the psychoanalyst in their country, and Goebbels appreciated Freud's nephew Edward Bernay's writings on crowd psychology.
Alexander Brooks
It seems pretty useful compared to the alternatives.
From what I`ve read about his research with Tatu Vanhanen all I see is faulty research, inadequate sample sizes and selective picking of groups and samples to get "averages". I this this is pest represented by how entire nation of Egypt regarding its Autism Level was represented by group of 24 thirteen year old boys when it came to results for "IQ and the Wealth of Nations"
Caleb Stewart
thanks for not posting a pdf and just highlighting a line in the abstract
why tf don't they just don't let people do shitty research.
Caleb Morris
Lol he's trying to impose race as category onto science, you know the scientific process is supposed to function in a way where you look at the evidence and form categories based on what you find. It may very well be that it makes more sense to group people by other factors, than race (which is really vague legacy term to begin with, alot of legacy categories like bodily humors aren't used anymore either)
It could be that race is a useful category in science after-all, but given how politically charged this term is because of the amount of people that have their self-worth tied to it, why would scientists bother with subjecting them self's to the risk of "emotional-race-backlash" if they find unflattering realities, any sensible person is going to make up new words with at least ten syllables and Greek or Latin word-roots. Additionally considering that race is a major divide and conquer wedge issue used by many neo-clerical population management casts, why would any sensible scientist who wants freedom of inquiry in science run into that minefield.
There's plenty of crackpot stuff out there written by people with Phds; pay-to-publish journals are a thing and peer reviewed is a pretty vague term with no set guidelines. The only way to know if your reading bullshit or not is to actually understand the subject and to thoroughly read each paper's material and methods and data sections, not just the abstract and the conclusion. It's easy to present data in a way that makes your conclusion seem legit if you know the target audience isn't going to check your faulty statistics, check your sources, or even understand the vocabulary (the amount of Zig Forumsacks I've seen confuse inheritance with heritability is staggering).
Same reason why they just don't let people release glitchy games.
Bentley Reed
Anti-racism is a white supremacist ideology.
The reason this isn't investigated and race which is clearly real is ignored is everyone believes the investigation will obviously yield white superiority.
I personally want to know what the answer is.
Marx himself had a Lamarckian perspective and believed while Africans were dumber this would change in a handful of generations. I think this is the most reasonable conclusion personally, being an African.
Ian Bell
2/10
Ryan Lee
IQ, general intelligence, and measurement in general are bourgeois concerns. Autism Level is the general equivalent of capitalist subjectivity.
Grayson Cook
>all these people in here stumbling over the ancient wordfilter Hello, newfriends.
I agree with Flynn. Let people do their stupid research.
That said, what I don't like about that kind of test is that many of the questions in it don't actually have a rigorously defined logically correct answer. Some of them are OK, like these: If all A are B and some B are C, does it follow that all A are also C? This type of question has a definite answer, and you can ask very complicated questions of that type with nested structures. There are also sometimes questions about certain 3D shapes, and you have to visualize them in your head, these are also OK. What is not OK is shit like asking which words belong together "logically" (hardehar), or number sequences where you have to predict some value. You can always construct multiple rules that generate these number sequences that are different in the value you have to predict; so until a "weighting" rule gets introduced (e.g. multiplication is more "heavy" than addition and you have to find the "lightest" formula), these questions remain nonsensical. Likewise with predicting changes in visual patterns where elements get rotated, mirrored, deleted, stacked on top of each other etc. You need defined different weights for these operations, or the correctness is up to the intuitions of whatever random fuckwit designs the thing.
I suspect a big reason these weighting rules are not introduced is a fear (of people with nice scores) that with precise rules, a computer program could easily outperform any human. And yet, we wouldn't consider such a program to have general human-like intelligence. But so what? The intelligence tests, shoddy as they currently are, already work for identifying people with Down's, for instance. Machines can outperform human athletes, that doesn't mean that we regard athletic performance as irrelevant as a reference point for healthiness. Simple tests for intelligence and fitness don't perfectly test what they are supposed to test, but they test something which correlates very well with what humans consider intelligence and fitness.
Matthew Jones
Every single person is different but have the same basic human rights. Differences in Autism Level have no relevance in discussion about equality. Equality doesnt mean everyone is identical or have same Autism Level. Low Autism Level and high Autism Level deserve the same rights.
His hypothesis doesn't make sense though. Europe has always had the most readily arable land and the most easily available game. Following the hypothesis of intelligence developing through environmental pressures, we ought be the dumbest of all people.
Luckily, humanity does not conform to standard Darwinian mechanism because we're a mutualist and cooperative race, so applying the mechanisms of lowly animals to a race that form societies with highly specialised roles is going to be crude and inaccurate at best.
Too bad you can't say the same about your sexual encounters.
Jason Howard
that's the point you fucking idiot you don't need to farm if you can just walk into the jungle and pick some fruit you don't need to form a complex societly to distribute you available resources, if all resources are available to you with little effort. yeah that's why europe has lost a huge percentage of its endemic fauna after the ice age, while north america was able to sustain it until europeans arrived. the rise of europe can mostly be attributed to geography and it has nothing to with race. kill yourself
Fucking lamo wut? That's now how societies in jungled areas exist at-all…
William Baker
Eskimos and the various Siberians were renown for their above average memories and visuo spatial abilities when they were first started being integrated into the public school systems of the ussr and the usa
Connor Perez
Really because the Russians thought they were fucking stupid (Like all Russian humour about the Kamchatkan is that they're stupid).
Landon Torres
Prove that there are races. So far they are always shown to be arbitrary classifications over phenotypes that are distinct only to human tastes. You can draw correlations between anything using that method. Hey, did you know all the most devastating and brutal wars of the 20th century were started by white people. Interesting correlation huh?. What do you think of that?
