On stalin

Lucas Gray
Lucas Gray

im fairly certain there's already a thread on this, but is there any actual legitimate evidence that Stalin slaughtered millions of people, or imprisoned innocents, or did any of the things people say he did?

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/v1pBaAd-uIQ
stalin.memo.ru)
desuarchive.org/marx/thread/11391/
watchmanreports.com/holocaust-truth/
youtu.be/TG-tG-Wo0Do
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htm
marxism.halkcephesi.net/Grover Furr/Furr tortsky japan.pdf

Cooper Cruz
Cooper Cruz

Yes, he slaughtered and imprisoned innocent people, millions, probably not.

Oliver Lewis
Oliver Lewis

[Zoom in on Robert Conquest screaming as he rolls over in his grave]

Christopher Hernandez
Christopher Hernandez

Stalin paid the clouds not to rain and ate all the grain himself.

Logan Bell
Logan Bell

im fairly certain there's already a thread on this, but is there any actual legitimate evidence that Hitler slaughtered millions of people, or imprisoned innocents, or did any of the things people say he did?

Adrian Jenkins
Adrian Jenkins

Stalin has become a monster, a huge mass of flesh and fat, and is barely capable of walking any more.

Benjamin Walker
Benjamin Walker

Except there's mountains of evidence for the holocaust etc and little to none for Stalin killing millions of people.

Aaron Ross
Aaron Ross

Not a single person died under Stalin

Hunter Richardson
Hunter Richardson

Except nazis who were in soviet territory

Parker Johnson
Parker Johnson

Stalin did nothing wrong

Wyatt Taylor
Wyatt Taylor

Name one crime

Noah Mitchell
Noah Mitchell

Not a shred. Everyone sentenced was legitimate.

Brayden Gray
Brayden Gray

Stalin slaughtered millions of people
He didn't just say "Yo we should go and shoot people for no reason lmao"
Some people got executed? Yeah. Not millions.
imprisoned innocents
Nobody's perfect. Gotta put criminals somewhere.
any of the things people say he did
Holodomor wasn't Stalin's fault

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Oliver Rivera
Oliver Rivera

He didn't just say "Yo we should go and shoot people for no reason lmao"

I mean the purges kinda were like that yeah

Jace Lopez
Jace Lopez

Fucking revisionists, he brought back fallen soliders in the great patriotic war.

Austin Morgan
Austin Morgan

even if you are right about death toll revisionism, its a bad look and bad praxis
you all need to think more about optics

Caleb Lopez
Caleb Lopez

Here was me thinking most of the executions n shit were done by the NKVD

Gavin Adams
Gavin Adams

you all need to think more about optics
“We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.”

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Landon Jackson
Landon Jackson

he said people,user

Logan Hughes
Logan Hughes

This. It's time to revive the skeleton memes. Death to the liberals. Communism killed 100 million? It should have been 200 million.

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Aaron Roberts
Aaron Roberts

not literally 300 billion

We should capture Porkies, and then force them to breed, and breed, and breed, until there are 300 billion of them. And then kill them and flood the Earth with their blood.

Christian Bailey
Christian Bailey

You know how Neo-Nazis have Skulls and Bones? We need to be scary as fuck too.

Tyler Baker
Tyler Baker

Glory to the Union of Skeletal Socialist Republics!
BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All ∞BCE - ∞CE
I am skeleton man
7,757,864,530 DEAD LIBERATED

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Lucas Williams
Lucas Williams

How to bring about a Communist Revolution:

1.) Get fit
2.) Be spooky with Skulls, Bones, CHAOS, and etc. Be Edgy As Fuck
3.) Make no apologies. Anyone who dies is a Fascist.

Matthew Ortiz
Matthew Ortiz

you can go all Dzerzhinsky on people after the revolution, but it makes no sense to decelerate the dialectic by turning off lumenprole normies by larping about how some dictator only killed 500,000 instead of a gorillion

James Martinez
James Martinez

Dude Nazis go all HITLER DID NOTHING WRONG, why can't we?

Luis Bennett
Luis Bennett

Based

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Henry Evans
Henry Evans

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Luke Morris
Luke Morris

sure on his orders.

Chase Carter
Chase Carter

Must've been thinking about some other event.
Still though, the purges were done for a reason. Can't have counterrevolutionaries hanging about.

Thomas Jackson
Thomas Jackson

Alright now the first pic is stupid. How would bone grow hair?

Christian Sullivan
Christian Sullivan

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Nathaniel Powell
Nathaniel Powell

Going after the means of production like:

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Anthony Hughes
Anthony Hughes

youtu.be/v1pBaAd-uIQ

Sebastian Rogers
Sebastian Rogers

During the 1937-1938 great purge, Stalin and other members of the Politburo authorized 383 lists of executions and imprisonment for about 44,000 people, of which not at all were carried out (Furr makes a good case for this in his Khrushchev book). This is is the only actual evidence of Stalin directly having people killed (stalin.memo.ru)
For NKVD arrests, archival evidence indicates that between 642,980 people (Rudenko, Kruglov, Gorshenin memorandum to Khrushchev, 1954) and 799,455 people (Getty, Rittersporn, and Zemskov, 1993) were sentenced to death between 1921 and 1953. Like I said above, not all the executions were carried out, I'll quote Austin Murphy (Triumph of Evil, 2000) to explain: "The figure of 800,000 may greatly overestimate the number of actual executions, as it includes many who were sentenced to death but who were not actually caught or who had their sentences reduced (Getty, Rittersporn, and Zemskov, 1993). In fact, Vinton (1993) has provided evidence indicating that the number of executions was significantly below the number of civilian prisoners sentenced to death in the Soviet Union, with only 7305 executions in a sample of 11,000 prisoners authorized to be executed in 1940 (or scarcely 60%)."
is there any actual legitimate evidence that Stalin slaughtered millions of people
tl;dr No. There isn't.

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Caleb Smith
Caleb Smith

Quoting Ismail from /marx/:
I don't think anyone argues the majority of those who died in the Great Purges were guilty, but when it comes to the Moscow Trials and the trial of Tukhachevsky and other military officers there's plenty of people who defend them and argue Trotsky really did plot with the Nazis to dismember the USSR, Tukhachevsky really did conspire with the Nazis to organize a military coup, Bukharin really did involve himself in acts of sabotage, Kirov really was killed by a massive conspiracy, etc.

Also a lot of these people will acknowledge "yes lots of innocent people died during the Great Purges" but never specify who. If you bring up someone wrongly killed, like David Riazanov or Osip Piatnitsky or innumerable other examples, in my experience they'll be reluctant to acknowledge it.

This is a great thread on the topic
desuarchive.org/marx/thread/11391/
Ismail expertly dispels myths about the Moscow Trials and provides a level-headed analysis of Stalin's paranoia and actions.

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Christian Mitchell
Christian Mitchell

You're no better than Holocaust deniers

Jordan Miller
Jordan Miller

Yep, researching the gulag system is the same as denying the holocaust

Angel Cruz
Angel Cruz

somebody on leftypol denies the holocaust.
IT HAPPENED TRUST ME.

there is evidence that stalin kill millions
IT'S A LIE TRUST ME

Elijah Rodriguez
Elijah Rodriguez

You might want to switch around the evidence part faggot

Ryder Ross
Ryder Ross

facts don't care about your feewees

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Jaxon Butler
Jaxon Butler

your argument literally means nothing, it's almost on par with the "u live under capitalism yet use iphone???". like wow i don't believe that this one historical event was an orchestrated genocide therefore i must also hold this view point for literally every other event in history of it's nature or else i'm a hypocrite. totally makes sense, lets throw all the different conditions out of the window because things like this are just plain black and white. how could i have been so daft?

Lincoln Jackson
Lincoln Jackson

Yeah but there's evidence for both the Holocaust and the Great Purge, defending either one of those makes you a blind ideology cuck, just like nazis.

Chase Gutierrez
Chase Gutierrez

The actual evidence of the great purge contradicts the mainstream narrative.

Adam Scott
Adam Scott

watchmanreports.com/holocaust-truth/ same about the holocaust

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Brody Ortiz
Brody Ortiz

it's another thread where ☭TANKIE☭s deny everything and non-tankies try to argue while stepping on eggshells to not offend oversensitive ☭TANKIE☭ mods and get banned

So was Trotsky never assassinated or did he just not exist?

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Isaiah Smith
Isaiah Smith

Nobody who actually has any actuall good points is denying anything, you illiterate, Ghanaian, wife circumcision practicing, cabbage.

Zachary Parker
Zachary Parker

I said actual evidence you drooling retard.

Carson Martinez
Carson Martinez

le anarkiddie strawmans marxists, volume 1944343

Leo Richardson
Leo Richardson

Wtf is this shit?

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Justin Davis
Justin Davis

nazis
Fascists aren’t human

Parker Parker
Parker Parker

Not all anarchists

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Matthew Miller
Matthew Miller

They think fucking Antifa, was somehow involved in killing kulaks. I don't think we can combat that.

Isaiah Parker
Isaiah Parker

there is evidence for stalin "killions millions"
yeah no, fuck your "le both sides r bad" meme.
i'm not denying purges happened, but don't try and bullshit me.

Mason Phillips
Mason Phillips

Not really. He did do a lot of good for the Russian people, but his efforts were ultimately a failure and led to the dissolution of the USSR. At the end of the day though, he was a corrupt power hungry bureaucrat who killed his own comrades for political gain.

Sebastian Martinez
Sebastian Martinez

lmao

Jaxson Gray
Jaxson Gray

I'd like some of the shit those guys are on.

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Luke Gonzalez
Luke Gonzalez

youtu.be/TG-tG-Wo0Do

Ok cool it’s gonna be analyzing a film about the sad death of a brilliant leader in WW2 and-
”this movie is about the death of one of the most evil human beings in history”
wait wha-
”the evil soviet dictator”
no stop it

And that’s when I found out it’s actually a comedy. The absolute state of western media.

Brandon Green
Brandon Green

great man theory
The idiocy of Trots to accuse MLs of that but employing this bullshit themselves

Isaiah Cruz
Isaiah Cruz

Papa Stalin was unironically a good man. don't quote me.

Cameron Kelly
Cameron Kelly

What's up with the claims of anti semitism on Stalin? Did he or the Union even give a single shit about Jews?

Henry Wilson
Henry Wilson

Stalin likely had personal prejudices against Jews, but didn't particularly believe that Jews should be repressed.

Austin Morgan
Austin Morgan

In answer to your inquiry :

National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism.

Anti-semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-semitism.

In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.

J. Stalin
January 12, 1931

First published in the newspaper Pravda, No. 329, November 30, 1936

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htm

Blake Walker
Blake Walker

just further attempts to smear him and compare the SU to nazi germany

In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.
J. Stalin
January 12, 1931
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htm

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Tyler Turner
Tyler Turner

slaughtered millions of people
No
imprisoned innocents
During the Great Purge the head of the NKVD was a guy named Nikolai Yezhov. Yezhov was a psychopath who abused his authority in the NKVD and had many innocent people imprisoned and/or killed. He hid this from Stalin and the Politburo for as long as he could but was eventually found out. He admitted to collaborating with the Germans to overthrow Stalin by misusing the NKVD to turn people against the government. Yezhov was tried and executed for his crimes and replaced with Lavrentiy Beria who immediately began reviewing the cases of people imprisoned by Yezhov and started releasing innocents by the tens of thousands. One of these people was actually general Konstantin Rokossovsky, one of the best Red Army officers of the war who planned Operation Bagration and led the Victory Day parade in Moscow in 1945. The Purge was necessary to get rid of legitimate spies, saboteurs and traitors, but unfortunately Yezhov fucked things up and many innocent people were killed. Additionally, many of the aforementioned innocents were falsely prosecuted at the local level and executed by NKVD troikas. Altogether, I believe the total figure of executions during the Purge was about 600,000 or so. Not all of those people were innocent, but unfortunately many were. Stalin was not responsible for that though, as the cases were mishandled at the local level and the organization responsible for orchestrating the purges was corrupted by Yezhov, who was ultimately punished for his wrongdoings. The NKVD was subsequently rebuilt into a properly functioning organization under Beria.
or did any of the things people say he did?
Besides defeating Hitler and turning the USSR into an industrialized socialist superpower that launched the first person into space in the span of one generation, no.

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Juan Rodriguez
Juan Rodriguez

The Purge was necessary to get rid of legitimate spies, saboteurs and traitors, but unfortunately Yezhov fucked things up and many innocent people were killed
Read: Most of the people killed in the Great Purge were innocent, convicted on made-up charges and forced confessions.

Hoxha in his paranoia built 700,000 bunkers. No one is defending him saying that was necessary. Why can't you have a more nuanced view of Stalin? One other than "he *literally* did nothing wrong".

Carter Powell
Carter Powell

most
source?

Justin Nguyen
Justin Nguyen

Trotsky was a Nazi
marxism.halkcephesi.net/Grover Furr/Furr tortsky japan.pdf

Blake Young
Blake Young

source?
Read:
takes you to
desuarchive.org/marx/thread/11391/
takes you to
desuarchive.org/marx/thread/11391/
and
desuarchive.org/marx/thread/11391/
Just read the whole thread over at /marx/.

But primary source evidence (both Soviet and non-Soviet) would suggest this was in fact the case.
Where's the evidence? 80 years have passed and we have nothing from the German, Polish, British, or other archives substantiating anything in the Moscow Trials. There's not even anything from the Soviet archives except more "confessions."

Stalin initiated a vast terror for no reason and then covered it up despite punishing those he felt responsible for the excesses of purges and those he thought were really guilty.
Stalin initiated a vast terror because he sincerely believed there was a gigantic conspiracy to overthrow him. That's what Soviet archives indicate.

The irony is that Yezhov, who was indeed punished for excesses, was one of those whom the Moscow Trials defendants were accused of diabolically plotting to kill. Of course, when Yezhov was arrested it was claimed he was in cahoots with Bukharin and Co. all along. Similarly, Politburo member Postyshev was supposedly one of those whom the defendants plotted to assassinate (according to the first Moscow Trial in 1936), but Postyshev was himself "exposed" in 1938 and shot and the matter of supposedly being the target of a dastardly plot never came up again.

There's no evidence for 99% of the Moscow Trials charges. The best you're getting is that Radek received letters from Trotsky in the early 30s, which we can verify from Trotsky's own archives at Harvard, but the Moscow Trials charge that these letters were "terrorist instructions" has no proof and there's nothing in Trotsky's public or private writings that would suggest he would consider individual acts of terrorism a way to overthrow governments.

The rehabilitation of certain Moscow Trials defendants was carried out under both Khrushchev and Brezhnev. The Moscow Trials themselves were never spoken of after 1956; the Soviets made no attempts to defend them, even though they possessed the archives of not only their own government, but of semi-fascist Poland and Nazi Germany.

Even Molotov said decades later, while trying to justify the Trials, "The confessions seemed artificial and exaggerated. I consider it inconceivable that Rykov, Bukharin, and even Trotsky agreed to cede the Soviet Far East, the Ukraine, and even the Caucausus to a foreign power. I rule that out." (Molotov Remembers, p. 311.)

Liam Ortiz
Liam Ortiz

I admit Stalin made mistakes, but the Purges were likely necessary because of the sheer level of corruption and sabotage that was occurring. In my Soviet history course our professor pointed to an example in the book he assigned us where local party officials were using machinery and materials intended to build factories and worker housing to build themselves extravagant homes. Industrial sabotage was rampant as well. John Littlepage, an American engineer who went to the USSR to assist with the industrialization, had many stories of encountering intentional sabotage. The Purges were mostly handled at a local level and the people responsible for fucking up and killing innocents were local officials and NKVD officials working for Yezhov. The idea that Stalin was orchestrating the whole operation from above doesn't fit with the evidence. It was undoubtedly a poorly handled operation, but I disagree with holding Stalin mostly responsible for it when the people most responsible for fucking it up were Yezhov and the local officials that handled the individual cases.

Jonathan Cox
Jonathan Cox

Grover Furr
EVERY TIME

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Matthew Jenkins
Matthew Jenkins

I like Stalin, but there's zero evidence, and you idiots just have to say "it might've happeneded", it order to diss a dead guy

Cameron Sanders
Cameron Sanders

*in i want death

Jace Cox
Jace Cox

Grover Furr is such a badass though.

Jaxon Fisher
Jaxon Fisher

O N E C R I M E

Isaac Nelson
Isaac Nelson

I HAVE

YET

Hunter Edwards
Hunter Edwards

I say we roll with it - antifa killed the kulaks, the romanov kids, and Louis and Marie Antoinette too!

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Dominic Green
Dominic Green

The ran over SuccDems in Prague in tanks, too.

Nolan Russell
Nolan Russell

TO FIND

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Robert Nguyen
Robert Nguyen

Hoxha in his paranoia built 700,000 bunkers. No one is defending him saying that was necessary.
Hell yeah I am. Hoxha didn't build 700k bunkers, he planned to but the number built was near 200,000. He wasn't paranoid either. Tell me, what nation next to Albania got bombed the crap out of it a few years later?

Dominic Anderson
Dominic Anderson

It's the balkans dude, everythings exploded at least once, down there

Daniel Walker
Daniel Walker

I admit Stalin made mistakes, but the Purges were likely necessary because of the sheer level of corruption and sabotage that was occurring
As far as I read. You haven't even read the linked /marx/ thread, as evidenced by your "Yes, but…" response. If you won't bother to read what's been written before you post a long stream-of-consciousness post, why should anyone read what you have to say?

25
a few
Besides, those bunkers wouldn't do shit against bombers. Have you seen the bunkers? They wouldn't have provided much resistance if a country decided to invade. Bunkers became obsolete when bombing became a military tactic in WWII. It was bombing that defeated Nazi Germany and Japan, ruined Vietnam, North Korea, etc.

William Powell
William Powell

muh Yehzoh did everything mean while daddy Stalin was feeding starving children
Jesus

Noah Kelly
Noah Kelly

where is the source on these?

Luke Gutierrez
Luke Gutierrez

Literally just like "lmao sandniggers bomb each other anyway"

Connor Wood
Connor Wood

see ah, so it's just textwalls claiming "there's no evidence"

Landon Powell
Landon Powell

Where is the evidence?
inb4 "confessions"

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